Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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M5 Family discussion here:

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[Doug S]

Wow. This is just crazy:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026592678746771921

Maybe they'll get a better discount next time! NOT.

They should have at least countered. Not sure why they wouldn't try; to me that doesn't make any sense.

Why in the world would you believe that claim?

Think about it. The number of people with both Apple and Samsung privy to contract negotiations on that level are pretty small. The number within Samsung who would know Samsung's internal target price increase prior to negotiation would be minuscule, perhaps single digits. It seems really unlikely that leaked, much more likely someone is clickfarming bs.

 

[jdubs03]

Why in the world would you believe that claim?

Think about it. The number of people with both Apple and Samsung privy to contract negotiations on that level are pretty small. The number within Samsung who would know Samsung's internal target price increase prior to negotiation would be minuscule, perhaps single digits. It seems really unlikely that leaked, much more likely someone is clickfarming bs.

Could be, could be.

 

[johnsonwax]

Why in the world would you believe that claim?

Think about it. The number of people with both Apple and Samsung privy to contract negotiations on that level are pretty small. The number within Samsung who would know Samsung's internal target price increase prior to negotiation would be minuscule, perhaps single digits. It seems really unlikely that leaked, much more likely someone is clickfarming bs.

There's no universe in which I can believe that Apple rolled in and took an offer like that. They might agree to a higher price by locking in a price ceiling with the ability to reduce that based on market prices falling and guaranteeing volume over a longer term if they felt that prices might continue to go up. Nobody does billion dollar contracts on such simple terms, and certainly not Apple.

 

[smalM]

Why would they be M4? It’s M5 based most likely

Maybee you read Maynard's post again?

 

[mvprod123]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2027020842396475410

 

[Eug]

Why in the world would you believe that claim?

Think about it. The number of people with both Apple and Samsung privy to contract negotiations on that level are pretty small. The number within Samsung who would know Samsung's internal target price increase prior to negotiation would be minuscule, perhaps single digits. It seems really unlikely that leaked, much more likely someone is clickfarming bs.

Agreed. It seems like total bullsh!t to me. Nonetheless, some Apple rumour sites are reporting on this. 🙄 Lame.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2027020842396475410

I'm looking to get an A18 Pro MacBook or else an M5 MacBook Air for my kid soon. All that would really be needed in such a machine is 2 USB-C ports (MagSafe connector and headphone jack optional), 12/16 GB RAM, and the option to upgrade to 512 GB storage.

The kid's current machine is a 2015 13" 2.7 GHz Broadwell i5-5257U purchased mint with new Apple battery and top case in 2021. I can't believe it's already been almost 5 years with that used machine. Geekbench 6 of that i5 is about 1000/2000, but A18 Pro is about 3500/9000 which is a ginormous upgrade, much faster than M1. Having hardware h.265 HEVC encode/decode that the A18 Pro supports has now become a basic requirement too, and having hardware AV1 decode and Apple Intelligence support is also a nice bonus. However, it would also be nice if it could support 6K monitors, as I already own one.

I would be buying with education pricing, but even if the A18 Pro MacBook has all those features, the purchase decision would depend upon whether or not it qualifies for the Back-To-School promotion this summer. I'm pretty sure this A18 Pro MacBook would be part of the promotion though, since students would be a primary target demographic, but you never know given its rumoured low price point.

 

[Nothingness]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2027020842396475410

I hope MBP M5 Max will be announced, I really need my M1 Max replaced

 

[mvprod123]

I hope MBP M5 Max will be announced, I really need my M1 Max replaced

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the M6 Max, which is rumoured to be released at the end of this year?

 

[Eug]

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the M6 Max, which is rumoured to be released at the end of this year?

? If an M5 Max MBP comes out in March, you'd have to be very optimistic to expect an M6 Max MBP to come out by December of the same year.

Anyhow, I'm curious though what the pricing will be, given the latest news about memory pricing.

 

[mvprod123]

? If an M5 Max MBP comes out in March, you'd have to be very optimistic to expect an M6 Max MBP to come out by December of the same year.

Anyhow, I'm curious though what the pricing will be, given the latest news about memory pricing.

Apple has done this before with the release of the M3 generation.

 

[Eug]

Apple has done this before with the release of the M3 generation.

Yes they have had some short intervals at times, but it's really infrequent, and we've gotten hints that M3 series was the bastard child of the M series releases. Furthermore, the M4 Max MBP (Oct. 30, 2024) came out a full year (to the day in fact) after the M3 Max MBP (Oct. 30, 2023). So, while not impossible, like I said you'd have to be very optimistic to expect an M6 Max MBP just 8 months later if an M5 Max MBP came out next week.

 

[mvprod123]

Yes they have, but it's really infrequent, and we've gotten hints that M3 series was the bastard child of the M series releases. Furthermore, the M3 Max MBP came out a full year later. So, while not impossible, like I said you'd have to be very optimistic to expect an M6 Max MBP just 8 months later if an M5 Max MBP came out next week.

I think Apple had planned to release the M5 Pro/Max alongside the base M5 last October, but due to the transition to new SoIC packaging, supply chain delays, and the transition of its PCC servers to M5, it delayed the high-end M5 versions until March.

 

[Nothingness]

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the M6 Max, which is rumoured to be released at the end of this year?

Well for my day job the M5 Max will be good enough: it should be at least 40% faster for 1T and more for nT.
For my personal machine, I will surely wait, but that won't of course be a Max, that's a bit expensive

 

[jdubs03]

Well for my day job the M5 Max will be good enough: it should be at least 40% faster for 1T and more for nT.
For my personal machine, I will surely wait, but that won't of course be a Max, that's a bit expensive

Compared to a M1 Max? ST should be almost 85% faster.

 

[Nothingness]

Compared to a M1 Max? ST should be almost 85% faster.

On SPEC 2017 502.gcc, M1 Max gets 12.6, M4 Pro get 18.1. M5 should be a bit faster, more than 40% indeed, but I doubt it will be 85% from M1 to M5. Though I would not be unhappy to be proven wrong.

Ref: https://blog.hjc.im/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/SPECint2017-details.png

 

[mvprod123]

iPhone and iPad approved to handle classified NATO information

Today, Apple announced iPhone and iPad are the first and only consumer devices in compliance with information assurance requirements of NATO nations.

www.apple.com

The introduction of MTE and MIA has contributed greatly to this.

https://www.ia.nato.int/niapc/Product/Indigo-26_968

"iPhone and iPad with indigo configuration provide secure access to Mail, Calendar, and Contacts data using apps built for iPhone and iPad.
iOS 26 and iPadOS 26 with indigo configuration are approved for iPhone and iPad up to NATO RESTRICTED. Indigo doesn’t require any special additional software or settings beyond managing and supervising devices using a device management service.
Apple Silicon. Apple silicon works seamlessly with iOS and iPadOS to deliver advanced security and privacy features to keep your operating system and data safe. And Apple silicon features Secure Enclave, which encrypts and protects user and biometric data and enforces passcode policies.
Touch ID and Face ID. Touch ID and Face ID give you a fast, easy, and secure way to unlock devices,open protected files, and retrieve passkeys at a touch or a glance. So you won’t waste time looking up forgotten passwords.
Memory Integrity Enforcement (MIE). MIE combines Apple silicon hardware and advanced OS security to deliver industry-first, always-on memory safety for devices with A19 and M5 processors—without impacting performance. It is the biggest memory safety advance in consumer OS history.
VPN and secure networking. Apple devices support virtual private networks (VPNs) out of the box, to encrypt and protect critical data. iOS, and iPadOS work with the industry-standard networks you already use, like IKEv2, Cisco IPsec, and L2TP over IPsec.
iOS 26 and iPadOS 26 with indigo configuration are approved for NATO RESTRICTED by BSI (Germany), when the according security configuration requirements are met."

 

[Jan Olšan]

Why in the world would you believe that claim?

Think about it. The number of people with both Apple and Samsung privy to contract negotiations on that level are pretty small. The number within Samsung who would know Samsung's internal target price increase prior to negotiation would be minuscule, perhaps single digits. It seems really unlikely that leaked, much more likely someone is clickfarming bs.

Yeah, it is that sort of thing that is quite likely to be fabricated rumor. But in case the story got distorted through retellings/bad reporting - I could see it happening the other way:

Samsung offered them +60 % say in january, but Apple still thought they are the biggest animal in the jungle because the sheer volumes, so they tried to act tough, being used to strongarmng suppliers, and declined. Samsung said no to their lower offer.
Two weeks later, Apple found they can't get better from anyone else because the other smaller animals are buying the memory out at prices the manufacturers like. They return to Samsung saying that they take the +60 %, but Samsung tells them that Dell/HP/Acer/etc bought the +60% chips already, now there's only +100% variety on table...

That could be that sort of a coup story that would spread inside the company and then leak.

 

[Doug S]

I was wondering what this "indigo configuration" was and figured it was some sort of NATO security standard that specifies particular settings or something (in this case the iPhones would be managed under MDM so they would be forced to the correct settings) but after a bit of googling it turns out it is an Apple thing:

Apple iNDIGO (iOS Native Devices in Government Operation) aims to support and optimize the use of iOS devices within government agencies.

https://blog.cortado.com/en/apple-indigo-optimizing-ios-devices-in-government-operations/

Haven't heard of this before, but I imagine getting NATO's blessing (this is only for classification levels below "secret", but that still covers a lot) will be meaningful in terms of similar decisions made by NATO members' individual governments plus those of closely aligned non members like Switzerland and Canada.

 

[jdubs03]

On SPEC 2017 502.gcc, M1 Max gets 12.6, M4 Pro get 18.1. M5 should be a bit faster, more than 40% indeed, but I doubt it will be 85% from M1 to M5. Though I would not be unhappy to be proven wrong.

Ref: https://blog.hjc.im/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/SPECint2017-details.png

Ah well I was using Geekbench single-core as the basis.

 

[Mopetar]

I think it's also important to think about this product in terms of the markets it's trying to reach and where it's going to be made. . . .This may be less a play for western marketshare and more one for emerging markets.

The emerging markets don't care much about PCs. They skipped them entirely and use smartphones for just about everything. Both desktops and laptops are declining in the west as well. There might be a few sales into those other countries, but the PC will never be as big there as it was here.

The press keeps pushing the lie that Apple is going to be sourcing its chips from the US when those Arizona plants are ready. They will always be one generation behind Taiwan - there's even a LAW requiring this in Taiwan - so Apple will always be getting the bulk of their chips overseas.

Any new products will have to get chips from Taiwan, but Apple still uses a lot of older SoCs in various products. Some of that may shift to the U.S. along with anything that doesn't need a bleeding edge node.

I hope MBP M5 Max will be announced, I really need my M1 Max replaced

I think I'll hang on to my M1 Max MBP for at least another generation. If the rumors about a new iMac with M5 Max are true I'm going to jump all over that though.

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the M6 Max, which is rumoured to be released at the end of this year?

The M6 will no doubt be out by the end of the year, but I think the Max/Ultra chips will lag behind by several months as they usually do. The M3 -> M4 transition was wonky as hell from the perspective of anyone's timeline and I don't know if expecting it to happen again anytime soon is reasonable.