Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[poke01]

most likely an increase from 4 channels right?

 

[mvprod123]

View attachment 122871

Sina Visitor System

dcs is a vey good leaker. iPhone 18 Pro will have 6 channel memory. Whats the current memory channel for iphone 16 pro?

A18/A18 Pro - 4x16 bit- 64 bit LPDDR5X-7500= 60GB/s
A20(?) - 6x16 bit - 96 bit LPDDR5X-8533(?) = 102GB/s (same as M2/M3)
This is quite a significant improvement. A hint of a larger GPU and its new architecture.

192-bit memory controller for M6? Strangely, LPDDR6 is not mentioned

 

[LightningZ71]

If they are going to lean on AI technologies that much, the faster memory is going to be important for NPU performance. If they want to at least maintain existing iGPU performance while the NPU is busy, that is a significant increase on memory bandwidth demands.

 

[Glo.]

A18/A18 Pro - 4x16 bit- 64 bit LPDDR5X-7500= 60GB/s
A20(?) - 6x16 bit - 96 bit LPDDR5X-8533(?) = 102GB/s (same as M2/M3)
This is quite a significant improvement. A hint of a larger GPU and its new architecture.

192-bit memory controller for M6? Strangely, LPDDR6 is not mentioned

Current iPhone chips have 128 bit bus, not 64 bit.

4 channel in this case means 4x32 bit, so 6 channel as an increase means 6x32=192 bit bus.

P.S. Told ya all that AI will only increase the memory requirements exponentially.

 

[mvprod123]

Current iPhone chips have 128 bit bus, not 64 bit.

4 channel in this case means 4x32 bit, so 6 channel as an increase means 6x32=192 bit bus.

P.S. Told ya all that AI will only increase the memory requirements exponentially.

False.

 

[Glo.]

False. View attachment 122892

What, exactly, is false?

 

[mvprod123]

What, exactly, is false?

A-chips have a 64-bit memory bus, not 128-bit

 

[Doug S]

dcs is a vey good leaker. iPhone 18 Pro will have 6 channel memory. Whats the current memory channel for iphone 16 pro?

I'm always skeptical about leaks this far out. They don't tend to have that good of a track record, even from "good" leakers.

Could be 6 channel memory in iPhone 18. Could be 6 channel in Pro only. Could be getting "6 channel" confused with 96 bit and it is 96 bit because it is using LPDDR6. I would be surprised if we don't hear conflicting rumors on this over the coming months. I think there would be little chance they use LPDDR6 on iPhone 18 since as we all know Apple has always been slow to adopt new memory standards on iPhone. Guaranteeing supply at that volume is more difficult than for Android flagships with much smaller volume (and unlike Samsung, Apple doesn't own a memory fab next door)

We may see LPDDR6 first with Apple Silicon since guaranteeing sufficient supply for Mac sales volumes is a lot easier than for iPhone sales volumes, and its potential benefits (i.e. ECC) are more important there.

 

[Eug]

Comparing USB hubs to SATA and/or PCIE is kinda nuts.

My USB hubs are PCIe.

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[Jan Olšan]

Comparing USB hubs to SATA and/or PCIE is kinda nuts. Buying a PC and using its general purpose IO for disk management is always going to be inferior to a dedicated NAS like time capsule was.

Its pretty obvious that Apples current strategy is to push icloud (which hasn't changed significantly in prices even since steve jobs first announced it), and push Mac Pro's onto anyone smart enough with money to afford it.

You can glue drives together on any platform these days, but if you want to have comparable NAS performance in the Mac space as what you get on x86, its gonna cost you BIG TIME.

My USB hubs are PCIe.

Plugable 5-in-1 Thunderbolt 4 and USB4 Hub

Experience the full power of USB4 with the Plugable USB4 and Thunderbolt 4 Hub (USB4-HUB3A) with 60W Host Charging. The USB4-HUB3A stands out for its complement of features, including up to 60W charging for the host laptop, 3x USB4 / Thunderbolt 4 ports—each capable of up to 40Gbps, and up to...

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I think the whole idea of having multiple-drive *RAID* storage system externally, hooked all on a daisy chain of cables is what is truly... well silly if not nuts. Like in that meme, "there is a point where we should have second-guessed Apple's alleged knowing what's best and we have clearly passed it but let's continue on..."

Asking for a cat to attack the cables and disconnect some of your drives while the system is on/cutting power to them, if nothing else.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Asking for a cat to attack the cables and disconnect some of your drives while the system is on/cutting power to them, if nothing else.

Great point!

 

[LightningZ71]

In fairness, people are forgetting the topology of ultra SCSI and how we used that for years for RAID arrays. If you're worried about cats unplugging your external drive arrays, but not the power cord for you Mac mini and causing the same sort of issue, you are delusional. USB4/thunderbolt are more than enough to handle modest sized arrays of mechanical hard drives. If you need the performance of a sizeable array of SSDs, you're really in the wrong place to start with.

 

[Mopetar]

And what stops you from DIYing this using an M1 Mini you bought off eBay?

Nothing other than I already have something that suits my needs. The software integration with their own applications isn't something I or anyone outside of Apple could do though.

You are clearly not serious in your claimed desires -

You're rather presumptive. No need to be a jerk on the internet just because your parents didn't love you.

I already have a solution that works well for my needs and use cases. If Apple did offer their own setup with incredibly tight software integration I'd probably buy their product though.

 

[Doug S]

Asking for a cat to attack the cables and disconnect some of your drives while the system is on/cutting power to them, if nothing else.

Putting your stack of stuff under an upturned wire basket with a cinder block on top will defeat a cat intent on chaos. That's been a catproofing solution since long before PCs existed.

Is that a pretty setup? No, but neither is a "RAID" with a bunch of USB cables connecting to external drives. I figure if you don't care about aesthetics in your RAID you won't care about them in your cat proofing.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Citrus/lemon scent also acts as a cat deterrent.

 

[Eug]

I think the whole idea of having multiple-drive *RAID* storage system externally, hooked all on a daisy chain of cables is what is truly... well silly if not nuts. Like in that meme, "there is a point where we should have second-guessed Apple's alleged knowing what's best and we have clearly passed it but let's continue on..."

Asking for a cat to attack the cables and disconnect some of your drives while the system is on/cutting power to them, if nothing else.

I don’t RAID anything and definitely would not over USB, but I was just pointing out that modern USB hubs actually do indeed support PCIe.

 

[johnsonwax]

Report that Apple will split iPhone releases into a pro/foldable and non-pro/se into a standard fall/spring schedule. That would create opportunities for Apple to differentiate by pro/non-pro A series and distribute that demand better across TSMC. That always seemed inevitable.

 

[Doug S]

Report that Apple will split iPhone releases into a pro/foldable and non-pro/se into a standard fall/spring schedule. That would create opportunities for Apple to differentiate by pro/non-pro A series and distribute that demand better across TSMC. That always seemed inevitable.

Yeah I remember when the Pro line first came out there was speculation they'd split the releases six months apart to smooth their demand curve over the year. Not only better for them w.r.t. TSMC, but Foxconn as well. They've always had to surge the number of employees in the summer to have sufficient stock to handle all the people who order when it first comes out and buying for Christmas. That's reportedly been less easy for them as they've expanded their operations beyond China so this may be a part of moving more of their manufacturing to other countries. It would also help the more they automate stuff, as you don't need as much automation capacity if there are two smaller demand peaks per year rather than one large one. Easier on the third parties they source so many other components from too.

I agree it seemed inevitable, I just wonder why it took so long since it makes sense in so many ways.

 

[poke01]

2H25-2H27 New iPhone Model Launch Predictions; Budget Models in 1H, Premium Models in 2H as Emerging Norm

mingchikuo.craft.me

Kuo also backs the splitting of base/budget iPhones and Air/Pro iPhones.

I agree it seemed inevitable, I just wonder why it took so long since it makes sense in so many ways.

I guess with the introduction of the foldable iPhone the time was right, Kuo also states intense competition from China.

The Chinese have really good phone models nowadays and Apple always goes all out when this happens

 

[Doug S]

The Chinese have really good phone models nowadays and Apple always goes all out when this happens

I'm not sure there is much Apple can do about competing in China, thanks to Trump going first strike nuclear in his trade war. There are going to be a lot of Chinese who have bought iPhones in the past who will switch to a Chinese brand for patriotic reasons. Once they're lost even if the trade war gets resolved they will be difficult to win back. Apple can probably make some of that up by increasing sales in India, but it is undoubtedly going to hurt their overall sales.

China has always had a vibrant phone market - don't forget it was Chinese brands who started going larger and created the phablet concept, not Samsung who just copied what Chinese brands were doing first. That turned out to be a big winner, it swept through the global smartphone market in less than five years and quickly became the default most people wanted to buy despite a higher price. Folding phones have been around longer than five years and are still a niche, and will remain a niche even when Apple joins the party. I have no interest in a folding phone, but if it means Apple has to do the work to go thinner (which I don't care about, but I like do like 'lighter') as part of that journey then I'll benefit from it even though I won't ever be a customer for a foldable.

 

[Mopetar]

I don't think much will change. Apple is nowhere near as popular in China as they are elsewhere and Apple only needs to move US-bound production outside of China to get around the tariffs. Any European bound phones can still be manufactured in China. I don't think the reasons for consumers in China preferring an iPhone have changed either. They might lose some sales, but I don't see them dropping too much unless the Chinese government intervenes in some way.

The main reason for a delayed release on a Pro model is either supply chain related due to component availability or just an overall limit in production capacity. Foxconn always made it easy to run shifts around the clock for large product ramps/releases, but other countries don't have as many people willing to put up with those work conditions. Having to ship components to multiple factories can make the logistics harder. I could see Apple doing it just to give themselves a cushion as the move manufacturing around and get kinks worked out in any new factories even if there weren't any major problems anticipated just to ere on the side of caution.

 

[johnsonwax]

I don't think much will change. Apple is nowhere near as popular in China as they are elsewhere and Apple only needs to move US-bound production outside of China to get around the tariffs.

There is no country not being tariffed right now, btw. It gets Apple out from behind the most crippling tariffs, but there's a 26% tariff on India imports that is temporarily suspended. That's $200 on the base iPhone.

 

[jdubs03]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919180817160646666

Interesting comment. Perhaps the 17 series won’t have N2.

 

[okoroezenwa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919180817160646666

Interesting comment. Perhaps the 17 series won’t have N2.

Wasn’t that expected to be N3P? N2 always seemed like an iPhone 18 thing based on timing.

 

[moinmoin]

There is no country not being tariffed right now, btw. It gets Apple out from behind the most crippling tariffs, but there's a 26% tariff on India imports that is temporarily suspended. That's $200 on the base iPhone.

And the temporary "suspension" is still 10% tariffs for everybody. For comparison the normal tariffs into the EU are supposed to be 4-5% on average.