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Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

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Eug

Eug

Lifer
M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:

Screen-Shot-2021-10-18-at-1.20.47-PM.jpg

M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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M5 Family discussion here:

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It'd be kind of wild if Apple just jammed a pile of those GPU cores on a card and shoved it in the Mac Pro as a 2nd GPU/bride of Afterburner. Would make putting the memory controller there necessary. Would sort of restore some sense to the Mac Pro.
 
i find it interesting Apple took the opposite approach of Qualcomm.

apple have less Super cores and more Perf coree whereas Qualcomm used for Prime cores and less performance cores.

Apple: 6P+12M
Q: 12P+6M

I bet Apples approach is less power hungry in Cinebench or blender while being more powerful by few percent.
 
poke01 said:
i find it interesting Apple took the opposite approach of Qualcomm.

apple have less Super cores and more Perf coree whereas Qualcomm used for Prime cores and less performance cores.

Apple: 6P+12M
Q: 12P+6M

I bet Apples approach is less power hungry in Cinebench or blender while being more powerful by few percent.
Click to expand...
Qualcomm's Prime cores are only about 3/4 the die size of Apple's Super cores I think, so that might explain it.
 
poke01 said:
i find it interesting Apple took the opposite approach of Qualcomm.

apple have less Super cores and more Perf coree whereas Qualcomm used for Prime cores and less performance cores.

Apple: 6P+12M
Q: 12P+6M

I bet Apples approach is less power hungry in Cinebench or blender while being more powerful by few percent.
Click to expand...
I think you’re underselling “a few percent”. I’d expect 10-15pct. Aka a generation ahead.
 
1772581460521.png

Wait, how is this different than M1 Ultra's UltraFusion die-to-die technology that was introduced back in 2021? How exactly is this 'state of the art'?

1772581754258.png

Wait, what? They just rebadged the old M5 performance core as now a Super Core? Only the name changed?

1772582036937.png

This smacks of the same marketing nonsense Qualcomm did in upgrading their X-Elite Performance core to the Prime moniker, and then creating a new Efficiency core and calling it a Performance one!

They are just creating new better cores out of thin air. Incredible!
 
Last edited:
Farfle said:
View attachment 139206

Wait, how is this different than M1 Ultra's UltraFusion die-to-die technology that was introduced back in 2020? How exactly is this 'state of the art'?

View attachment 139207

Wait, what? They just rebadged the old M5 performance core as now a Super Core? Only the name changed?

View attachment 139208

This smacks of the same marketing nonsense Qualcomm did in upgrading their X-Elite Performance core to the Prime moniker, and then creating a new Efficiency core and calling it a Performance one!

They are just creating new better cores out of thin air. Incredible!
Click to expand...
yeah, good thing there was no live event. it would've been so confusing to explain this
 
Farfle said:
View attachment 139206

Wait, how is this different than M1 Ultra's UltraFusion die-to-die technology that was introduced back in 2021? How exactly is this 'state of the art'?
Click to expand...
They are different technologies. Ultrafusion uses TSMC InFO_LSI packaging.

This new Fusion uses TSMC SoIC_mH.
Farfle said:
View attachment 139207

Wait, what? They just rebadged the old M5 performance core as now a Super Core? Only the name changed?
Click to expand...
Yes
Farfle said:
View attachment 139208

This smacks of the same marketing nonsense Qualcomm did in upgrading their X-Elite Performance core to the Prime moniker, and then creating a new Efficiency core and calling it a Performance one!
Click to expand...
To be honest there is a justification for doing so. Qualcomm's performance cores are nearly 2/3 as powerful as the Prime cores, whereas as Apple's efficiency core is only 1/3 as powerful as their (former) performance cores.

Though if seems Apple's (new) performance cores are more powerful than Qualcomm's, if the leak is true that it has 70% of the performance of the Super core.
Farfle said:
They are just creating new better cores out of thin air. Incredible!
Click to expand...
Magic!
 
IMG_3295.jpeg

Now the Thunderbolt 5 controller in the M5 Pro/M5 Max SoC itself. Hopefully Intel follows suit with in-built support for Nova Lake-H next year.
 
It seems that Apple's new M-cores give a boost to battery life.
M5 Max gets 22 hours of live streaming and 16 hours of wireless web. M4 Max gets 21 hours of live streaming, and 14 hours of wireless web.
 
I cross-posted this at Macrumors (FYI).
My guess: Two aims are being targeted by Apple. First, due to thermal and power limitations on N3B (I have and love the M4 Max, but those fans can spin up when fully pushed), Apple decided that 10-12 “super/performance” cores was no longer appropriate for a laptop. They are hitting the limits here from the M1 design.

Further, if you modeled 6s x 12mid vs 12s x 4e (M4 Max), the lightly threaded things will be unaffected from a core count perspective, and sophisticated multithreaded applications will often favor the higher core count. There will likely be moderately threaded apps that might have benefited more from a higher super/perf core count; but after studying innumerable benchmarks and tests over the years as a fellow Anandtecher, I’d posit that this is a minority but still meaningful case for modern workloads.

Using super rough numbers, you can even do a little math. Reportedly the m-cores are 70% of the supers. So your weighted average p-core count is 6 + 12(.7), or 14.4 net p-cores for M5 Max. We know historically the e cores are more like 1/3 a p-core. So the M4 Max would be 12 + 4(1/3), or 13 1/3 net p-cores.

Ultimately, even though it won’t always be a winner performance wise, the new core balance will improve battery life and thermal performance overall. We know that Intel’s Panther Lake and Nova follow similar principles. Nevertheless, this oddball new core count is probably why the % increase from M4 to M5 seems a touch higher than M4 Max to M5 Max, using Apple’s very high level estimates. I think people projected more based on the 12s x 4e continuing. But let’s see some benches soon!

The second aim, and my bold unoriginal prediction, is that Apple will differentiate the M5 Mac Studio. Expect (1) a higher count of “super” cores, (2) possibly more “m” cores or at least the same amount, and (3) at higher configurations, a higher GPU core count. The new fusion / chiplet packaging gives Apple this new flexibility. And they can finally have a differentiated Mac Studio, like the desktops of old, that isn’t an Ultra.
 
www.apple.com

Say hello to MacBook Neo

Apple today unveiled MacBook Neo, an all-new laptop that delivers the magic of the Mac at a breakthrough price.
www.apple.com

MacBook Neo
A18 Pro (5-core GPU)
8 GB RAM
256 GB(599$) 512 GB (699$) (for EDU: -100$)
Bluetooth 6, Wi-Fi6E
2 USB-C ports (1 USB3 + 1 USB2)
 
Last edited:
Jan Olšan said:
At least it's not a single-port crime like the 2015 abomination.
Click to expand...
However, it’s USB 3 + USB 2, which some people out there predicted based on the fact it’s A series with the single controller. I had predicted USB 3 x 2 with shared bandwidth but I’m wrong on that too. Actually, for my 2017 MacBook, I would have been fine with that USB 3 + USB 2 setup. The extra USB-C port makes a HUGE difference for convenience, even if it’s just USB 2.

However, the members here were also right about the 8 GB, unfortunately. This is Apple’s classic crippling of version 1, albeit for reasons that were correctly predicted given the SoC. Version 2 will have 12 GB RAM, because it will get A19 Pro or A20 Pro.

I’m curious if this will qualify for the Back-To-School promotion this summer. I definitely won’t be buying one, but may delay a purchase until 2027. If there is a new Neo with A19/20 Pro and 12 GB RAM 2027, and it qualifies for the Back-To-School promo, I may consider the 512 GB model for my kid.
 
MerryCherry said:
Basically faster ST than Intel/AMD's best desktop chips.

Btw...

It has a MECHANICAL TRACKPAD.
No haptic trackpad !
Click to expand...
sRGB screen, not wide colour Display P3 or True Tone unlike every other recent MacBook
Same weight as MB Air despite smaller screen size
Significantly worse battery life than MB Air
Touch ID restricted to 512 GB model
Apple Pay restricted to 512 GB model
No keyboard backlight
 
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