Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[mikegg]

Geekerwan was able to get A19 Pro >4000/11000 in a phone. In a MacBook it may hit that without the fan they used, assuming the same clock speed. For MT, that's higher than M2. GPU is probably less of a concern. In fact for both CPU and GPU, it's already faster than the fastest iPad non-Air/Pro anyway so in terms of SoC speed, even A19 non-Pro would be fine. Hell, I could run a Mac with my business applications with the performance of A14 (Geekbench 6.5 - 2200/5400) no problem, but my main concern would be RAM and I/O.

Also, $549 is overly optimistic, especially for 512 GB. I'm thinking $799 retail / $699 education for USB 3 / 12 GB / 256 GB / 13” Retina, or at best $100 less, albeit with third party sale pricing going lower as usual. The M1 MBA is still at Wal-Mart, but Apple doesn't actually acknowledge its existence on its own retail website or even its education website. The only place you can find it at Apple is in the refurbished section. Furthermore even for the M1 at Wal-Mart, $599 is not the retail price. It's their sale price.

Actually are the Ax Pro chips even necessary for USB 3? Could A19 suffice, or is that limited to USB 2? All A19 iPhones are USB 2, but some A19 Pro iPhones are also USB 2.

A rare sight. @Eug talking about an affordable Mac that was earlier deemed ridiculous.

Anyway, rumors have said $599. I think that's too low to be true. My personal guess remains at $700 - $750 which was originally made in 2021. $800 does not have that "wow what a deal" factor.

I'd like to see it have 16GB minimum but I can understand it if Apple chooses 12GB.

$599 if they plan to use A19/A18 Pro. $700 - $750 if they decide to use A19 Pro.

 

[Eug]

This was posted at MacRumors. The chip is the binned A19 Pro, in the ultra thin titanium iPhone Air.

M4+ Chip Generation - Speculation Megathread [MERGED]

Got my iPhone Air Geekbench 6 results: 3577 / 9166 🥵 (warm, adaptive power mode enabled, some background activity) https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/13926502 3767 / 9588 😎 (cool, adaptive power mode disabled, no background activity) https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/13937751 3934 / 10479...

forums.macrumors.com

Got my iPhone Air

Geekbench 6 results:

3577 / 9166 🥵 (warm, adaptive power mode enabled, some background activity) https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/13926502

3767 / 9588 😎 (cool, adaptive power mode disabled, no background activity) https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/13937751

3934 / 10479 🥶 (on an ice pack, adaptive power mode disabled, no background activity) https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/13938931

 

[Eug]

iPhone Air battery life is poor in this test:

7:18 - iPhone Air
9:51 - iPhone 16
10:28 - iPhone 17
10:48 - iPhone 17 Pro
11:58 - S25 Ultra
12:15 - iPhone 16 Pro Max
12:59 - iPhone 17 Pro Max

That means the Air’s battery life is:
74.1% of iPhone 16
69.7% of iPhone 17
67.6% of iPhone 17 Pro
59.6% of iPhone 16 Pro Max
56.2% of iPhone 17 Pro Max



Also, the iPhones being tested against the Air all have the nano-SIM tray. For the 17 series, the nano-SIM versions have smaller batteries than the eSIM-only versions. However, the Air only comes with eSIM. There is no nano-SIM version of the Air.

 

[name99]

I think Apple C2 will easily reach the level of X85 next year. Apple is moving surprisingly quickly along its roadmap with modems. It will be interesting to see how C1X performs.

It's not a question of "level of X85", it's a question of mm wave. Apple is reluctant to drop a fairly prominent feature (regardless of what some people may think about whether it is or is not valuable).

So the real issue is when will Apple have mm wave working?
WRT every other piece of functionality, I think Apple could make the move right now.

 

[Doug S]

It's not a question of "level of X85", it's a question of mm wave. Apple is reluctant to drop a fairly prominent feature (regardless of what some people may think about whether it is or is not valuable).

So the real issue is when will Apple have mm wave working?
WRT every other piece of functionality, I think Apple could make the move right now.

mmwave is easy to implement, but it requires more chip area and a bit more internal area for the extra bits like antennas and LNAs. Apple only ships mmwave capable phones in the US. If you buy anywhere else it doesn't have the antennas so even the ones with "Qualcomm inside" have a modem that's capable of it but the phone isn't.

If they plan to continue that they might have two versions of C2, one that does mmwave for the US only and a C2X or whatever for the rest of the world.

 

[mvprod123]

C1X (iPhone Air) vs Qualcomm X80 (iPhone 17 Pro)
Sub-6 5G speed test

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969432602609402301

 

[name99]

mmwave is easy to implement, but it requires more chip area and a bit more internal area for the extra bits like antennas and LNAs. Apple only ships mmwave capable phones in the US. If you buy anywhere else it doesn't have the antennas so even the ones with "Qualcomm inside" have a modem that's capable of it but the phone isn't.

If they plan to continue that they might have two versions of C2, one that does mmwave for the US only and a C2X or whatever for the rest of the world.

Google tells me that Japan, Australia, and Singapore are using mmWave, and Europe and Greater China (Hong Kong, Taiwan, China) have plans.
So I suspect it will not really play out like you suggest. What you describe made sense for a brief period when the US was alone in this, but that period is drawing to a close.

 

[mvprod123]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969831388095647929

 

[Doug S]

Google tells me that Japan, Australia, and Singapore are using mmWave, and Europe and Greater China (Hong Kong, Taiwan, China) have plans.
So I suspect it will not really play out like you suggest. What you describe made sense for a brief period when the US was alone in this, but that period is drawing to a close.

They use different bands for their mmwave meaning a lot more components would be required if you wanted to support them all in the same device. I could see Apple (especially for China) add mmwave support specific to the country/region it is purchased but I'm skeptical they (or anyone, really) will support all mmwave deployments throughout the world in a single phone.

 

[DZero]

I'm thinking that, instead of a Mac mini, it's the next gen Apple TV "pro" at $349. It doubles as a game console for 1080p and 4k upscaled games.

Funny story...
I expect The Mac Mini A19 Pro AND the Apple TV at USD 199 but with A17 Pro processor with 6 GB RAM

 

[Doug S]

Funny story...
I expect The Mac Mini A19 Pro AND the Apple TV at USD 199 but with A17 Pro processor with 6 GB RAM

Apple TV is seriously overpowered for what it is asked to do. It would have to do more to justify upgrading the SoC for any reason beyond "we're running out A15s". Everyone always suggests "make it a gaming console" because that's something that could utilize more power. Especially the beefed up GPU in A19/A19P. The Wii couldn't sustain the "low end console" market though, and it would need a Pro/Max level SoC to take on PS/Xbox.

While Apple TV is essentially a low end Mac Mini (just needs more RAM/NAND, a couple USB ports, and a macOS install) that doesn't mean Apple would want to undercut the current Mini like that without good reason. It is nice to dream about, but Apple won't cannibalize their own markets with lower end options unless they think it will grow overall market share. It makes more sense to do that with a laptop, since that's what "PC" means to most people under 30.

 

[johnsonwax]

Apple TV is seriously overpowered for what it is asked to do. It would have to do more to justify upgrading the SoC for any reason beyond "we're running out A15s". Everyone always suggests "make it a gaming console" because that's something that could utilize more power. Especially the beefed up GPU in A19/A19P. The Wii couldn't sustain the "low end console" market though, and it would need a Pro/Max level SoC to take on PS/Xbox.

While Apple TV is essentially a low end Mac Mini (just needs more RAM/NAND, a couple USB ports, and a macOS install) that doesn't mean Apple would want to undercut the current Mini like that without good reason. It is nice to dream about, but Apple won't cannibalize their own markets with lower end options unless they think it will grow overall market share. It makes more sense to do that with a laptop, since that's what "PC" means to most people under 30.

AppleTV is one of the places where Apple could throw AI features and want the Pro not for TV graphics but for AI responsiveness.

 

[Eug]

Apple TV already is a gaming console, even if gaming is not its primary function.

That’s how we used ours, with a Bluetooth Xbox controller, until we got our Switch 2.

 

[poke01]

Apple TV already is a gaming console, even if gaming is not its primary function.

That’s how we used ours, with a Bluetooth Xbox controller, until we got our Switch 2.

It just doesn’t have the proper games, for example Switch 2 is getting Resident Evil 9 on day 1 as other platforms meanwhile no Apple device so far is.

Plus Apple removed the fan in the Apple TV….

 

[LightningZ71]

That's just it, it won't undercut the mini because it doesn't run the full MacOS/iOS exposed to the public. It's a place to put A19 chips that don't hit parametric yield for power/thermal that can still turn a profit. It'll not have a lot of margin with only 12GB ram to make sense for better games, but it can still be a viable product. Just sell it as the Apple TV pro/premium etc. with upscaling, it'll do fine for most everything.

 

[Eug]

It just doesn’t have the proper games, for example Switch 2 is getting Resident Evil 9 on day 1 as other platforms meanwhile no Apple device so far is.

Plus Apple removed the fan in the Apple TV….

Doesn’t mean it isn’t a game console.

iPhone isn’t getting Resident Evil 9 either but it’s the #1 gaming platform on earth.

 

[mvprod123]

Apple could easily release an Apple TV with an A19 Pro with active cooling, which would allow it to run AAA games, especially if those games are updated to Metal 4.

 

[MS_AT]

but it’s the #1 gaming platform on earth.

Do have any data to back this up?

 

[jpiniero]

Do have any data to back this up?

Just look at Apple's "Services" revenue. While a lot of that is the Google Search deal, the rest is basically Apple's cut of live service games.

 

[poke01]

I don't think the iPhone is the best place for AAA games, mobile games in general yes but actual story driven games are very few

 

[Eug]

Do have any data to back this up?

For example from this 2019 article:

By the numbers, Apple's iPhone tops PlayStation, Xbox as most popular video game device

With more than 1 billion iPhones sold over the past decade, Apple's device has emerged the largest installed base of any video game platform.

www.usatoday.com

“There are 900 million iPhones out there, only around 300 million consoles, so it is clearly the biggest base of gamers,” confirms Michael Pachter, research analyst at Wedbush Securities. “No individual console has ever had an installed base of 200 million.”

I believe now the installed base of iPhones in 2025 is around 1.2 to 1.3 billion. And that doesn’t even include iPads.

 

[DZero]

Apple could easily release an Apple TV with an A19 Pro with active cooling, which would allow it to run AAA games, especially if those games are updated to Metal 4.

Actually I do expect see the A19 Pro being used on the iMac Mini with the iMac (laptop).

As for Apple TV, seeing an A17 Pro or an A18 is ideal due cost. And to introduce: "Apple TV 8K".

 

[Antey]

I don't know.

Out of 1.3 billion, how many people play with their iphones? I don't play with mine, nor my wife, coworkers, etc... i'm pretty sure that many people use them for (light) gaming too but i doubt is over 40-50% to be honest. And for serious gaming? i mean people that would buy a 50+ usd AAA game? 1%?

it's a different market, based on light gaming + relying on spenders and whales.

Consoles are for gaming only. everyone with a console is playing videogames.

and i don't think iphones are the #1 gaming platform on earth, i think that's android. How many android out there? 4 billion?

And there is 2 billion x86 PCs/laptops out there in the world, that's doesnt mean that they are all playing games,

 

[DZero]

I don't know.

Out of 1.3 billion, how many people play with their iphones? I don't play with mine, nor my wife, coworkers, etc... i'm pretty sure that many people use them for (light) gaming too but i doubt is over 40-50% to be honest. And for serious gaming? i mean people that would buy a 50+ usd AAA game? 1%?

it's a different market, based on light gaming + relying on spenders and whales.

Consoles are for gaming only. everyone with a console is playing videogames.

and i don't think iphones are the #1 gaming platform on earth, i think that's android. How many android out there? 4 billion?

The same question could apply to Android users too.

Apple is inflating the numbers, however what we know is the Gacha gaming comsumption, at least mobile wise defeats Android.

 

[Antey]

The same question could apply to Android users too.

Apple is inflating the numbers, however what we know is the Gacha gaming comsumption, at least mobile wise defeats Android.

yes. but console is still ''bigger'' and PCs are right there.

2024.

92.5 billions mobile. iOS 47.7b and Android 33.7b.

Consoles 50.3b

PCs 41.5b

The Gaming Industry in 2024 by the Numbers — A Review by GamesIndustry

GamesIndustry released an extensive infographic featuring key figures for the gaming industry as 2024 draws to a close. Here are some observations.

wnhub.io

Consoles are making a ton of money with only 300m units.