Apple Puts Authentication Chip In Lightning Cable Ensures No Cheap Third-Party Option

[zsdersw]

While, yes, it does happen and I too wonder how he missed it, the person you linked to still had a perfectly functional port. It's like linking to a microUSB user reporting a loose-feeling microUSB port.

That's never mentioned or implied. We don't know whether it was fully functional or not.

 

[CZroe]

That's never mentioned or implied. We don't know whether it was fully functional or not.

Come on now. He noticed it was cracked. He didn't notice that it was not functional and then noticed it was cracked. He's complaining that AppleCare wouldn't take care of it for free, which is entirely understandable if it still functioned. It was within the 1 year warranty and AppleCare non-Plus is just an extension of that, but he clearly thinks he should have gotten a replacement just because he paid for AppleCare.

He's whiny. Thread wouldn't exist for a microUSB product because those don't have AppleCare and Apple's reputation for replacing things.

Anyway, Ichinisan's own mother had a 3GS that came from the factory with a bad dock connector. It still worked fine but it would cause the speaker to go out when unplugged. Because it came that way from Apple, I guess it doesn't speak for the durability of the connector itself, but they clearly aren't perfect and Ichinisan has heard of a connector repair (contrary to what he said).

 

[CZroe]

Then obviously you're not paying attention. It does happen: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1285465

Apple was for microUSB charging before they were against it: http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/02/01/apple-behind-push-for-micro-usb-charging-standard/

Oh, and Apple was never "for" that as the device built-in interface. That initiative was to stop waste. "No need to throw out old car chargers and accessories just because you bought a new phone: WE MAKE AN ADAPTER FOR THAT! "

Apple is still "for" that. Ichinisan owns a microUSB to Lightning adapter.

 

[AkumaX]

After market lightning cables work, I have ordered a few

They work, I got 3! Even for data! I believe just audio is missing.

However, one of them requires a nudge to charge (or I can flip it and it'll charge no problem)
Another one is already falling apart at the base of the A port (the wires are coming out)
3rd one is fine, but sees the least usage..

Well.. can keep complaining, but for ~$2-3 each, will we see quality soon?

 

[Ichinisan]

Then obviously you're not paying attention. It does happen: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1285465

Apple was for microUSB charging before they were against it: http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/02/01/apple-behind-push-for-micro-usb-charging-standard/

Um, we were on the subject of my friend and his side work with repairing mobile phones and tablet devices. HE hasn't had a case of a bad 30-pin connector (at least, not one that I've heard of).

...and Apple joined that industry group on the standardization of microUSB so that they would have their say. Apple complied by releasing a microUSB adapter for 30-pin and Lighting connectors. If they hadn't been part of that group, the rules might have turned out differently and Apple might have been forced to put less-functional, less-durable connectors on iPhones and compromise other points of engineering.

 

[CZroe]

They work, I got 3! Even for data! I believe just audio is missing.

However, one of them requires a nudge to charge (or I can flip it and it'll charge no problem)
Another one is already falling apart at the base of the A port (the wires are coming out)
3rd one is fine, but sees the least usage..

Well.. can keep complaining, but for ~$2-3 each, will we see quality soon?

So I guess it won't work with any of those car audio systems that get all the iPod data and audio over the USB cable? I used a car recently that did that through the normal USB port (no iPod cable, no adapter). No $3 cables for that, I guess. At least there's A2DP.

 

[Ichinisan]

Come on now. He noticed it was cracked. He didn't notice that it was not functional and then noticed it was cracked. He's complaining that AppleCare wouldn't take care of it for free, which is entirely understandable if it still functioned. It was within the 1 year warranty and AppleCare non-Plus is just an extension of that, but he clearly thinks he should have gotten a replacement just because he paid for AppleCare.

He's whiny. Thread wouldn't exist for a microUSB product because those don't have AppleCare and Apple's reputation for replacing things.

Anyway, Ichinisan's own mother had a 3GS that came from the factory with a bad dock connector. It still worked fine but it would cause the speaker to go out when unplugged. Because it came that way from Apple, I guess it doesn't speak for the durability of the connector itself, but they clearly aren't perfect and Ichinisan has heard of a connector repair (contrary to what he said).

That wasn't really the connector. You could put pressure on the lower half of the phone to affect the speaker in the same way. Even with the cord inserted, you could duplicate the problem by pulling it forward or pushing it back.

 

[zsdersw]

Um, we were on the subject of my friend and his side work with repairing mobile phones and tablet devices. HE hasn't had a case of a bad 30-pin connector (at least, not one that I've heard of).

...and Apple joined that industry group on the standardization of microUSB so that they would have their say. Apple complied by releasing a microUSB adapter for 30-pin and Lighting connectors. If they hadn't been part of that group, the rules might have turned out differently and Apple might have been forced to put less-functional, less-durable connectors on iPhones and compromise other points of engineering.

Sorry, I forgot... Apple is perfect to you. What time do you go to services at the Temple of Apple on Sunday?

We have nearly 300 iPads and iPod Touch devices at work... and about 200 Android tablets. I've found nothing extraordinary about the 30-pin connector's reliability and nothing sub-par about microUSB connectors. They break with about the same frequency.

 

[AkumaX]

So I guess it won't work with any of those car audio systems that get all the iPod data and audio over the USB cable? I used a car recently that did that through the normal USB port (no iPod cable, no adapter). No $3 cables for that, I guess. At least there's A2DP.

Yeah, my CT passes data through the 'iPod' USB port. However, I do use BT streaming (A2DP + AVRCP rocks!) so it's not a huge loss (if anything, its much more convenient since music playback continues seamlessly with BT - car profile)
If anything, I'd rather not have the iPod enabled port, because it screws up charging/playback when I want to do BT playback /firstworldproblems

 

[CZroe]

Sorry, I forgot... Apple is perfect to you. What time do you go to services at the Temple of Apple on Sunday?

We have nearly 300 iPads and iPod Touch devices at work... and about 200 Android tablets. I've found nothing extraordinary about the 30-pin connector's reliability and nothing sub-par about microUSB connectors. They break with about the same frequency.

Oh, please. he's got a point to make. Can he just make it without these silly responses? He's not an Apple fanboy just because he pointed out that Lightning was an improvement over microUSB. Grow up. Open YOUR mind before accusing him of having a closed one.

I don't own a single Apple product anymore and I agree with him. MicroUSB was never tolerable as a significant standard, IMO. No audio despite demonstrated need (remember exUSB?), no fast-charge standard, orientation-dependent while being difficult to blindly orient without fumbling/scratching, weak/protruding cables with poor connector durability, etc.

That wasn't really the connector. You could put pressure on the lower half of the phone to affect the speaker in the same way. Even with the cord inserted, you could duplicate the problem by pulling it forward or pushing it back.

IIRC, other people with the same issue fixed it by replacing the port/cable module. Probably a short in the flat cable that they didn't test for in QA.

 

[zsdersw]

Oh, please. he's got a point to make. Can he just make it without these silly responses? He's not an Apple fanboy just because he pointed out that Lightning was an improvement over microUSB. Grow up. Open YOUR mind before accusing him of having a closed one.

He can make whatever point he wants to make. No one is under any obligation to respond to them in a way you don't deem "silly".

My opinion is not based on just this thread. I don't have to agree with you and will express whatever opinions I choose to express, whether or not you like or agree with them.

I don't own a single Apple product anymore and I agree with him. MicroUSB was never tolerable as a significant standard, IMO. No audio despite demonstrated need (remember exUSB?), no fast-charge standard, orientation-dependent while being difficult to blindly orient without fumbling/scratching, weak/protruding cables with poor connector durability, etc.

IIRC, other people with the same issue fixed it by replacing the port/cable module.

Lack of audio, fast-charging, etc were never really the central part of this discussion, nor were they issues I was speaking to. It was centered around the physical durability of such connectors... and in my experience microUSB is hardly the extraordinarily weak offering it is made out to be, and Apple's 30-pin connector not the bastion of reliability it is made out to be.

 

[CZroe]

My opinion is not based on just this thread. I don't have to agree with you and will express whatever opinions I choose to express, whether or not you like or agree with them.

*gasp*

He owns an iPhone and an AirPort and an iPad mini and posts in other threads about them?!
The nerve of that guy!


He owns no Mac. He also owns a TouchPad running Android which he's had for several times longer than his brand new iPad mini. He's never used OS X. He's talking about not trusting counterfeits for good reasons (watch the YouTube videos where they are disected and compared).

Lack of audio, fast-charging, etc were never really part of this discussion. It was centered around the physical durability of such connectors... and in my experience microUSB is hardly the extraordinarily weak offering it is made out to be, and Apple's 30-pin connector not the bastion of reliability it is made out to be.

You are the only one talking in extremes.

 

[zsdersw]

*gasp*

He owns an iPhone and an AirPort and posts in other threads about them?!
The nerve of that guy!

He also never has any criticisms of them. Most tech-savvy people recognize technology for what it is: imperfect. They have lists of pros and cons for each gadget they own. Not this guy, it seems.

You are the only one talking in extremes.

Not really. He's the only one claiming Apple's 30-pin connector is significantly superior to microUSB in reliability. Others don't talk about Apple's 30-pin connector and simply whine about their experiences with microUSB.

 

[CZroe]

He also never has any criticisms of them. Most tech-savvy people recognize technology for what it is: imperfect. They have lists of pros and cons for each gadget they own. Not this guy, it seems.

Are you kidding? He's been talking about their faults for years, from arbitrary restrictions on things like numeric battery indicators and AVRCP (sold more iPod-certified docks at one time) to manufacturing and design faults and non-user-serviceable batteries. He has a huge list. I guess you've only read his recent posts about being happy with his iPhone 5 and iPad mini. He's done almost nothing but complain about the predecessors for years.

As twins, we disagree often and then argue until we convince the other. We've been through all this. Back when the iPhone 3G launched and we bought our first Apple product, we seemed to be the only people on the Internet complaining that the iPod music interface didn't scroll titles and the pop-up mini player showed more than the full-screen iPod app and the lock screen. That is still entirely unacceptable to me, but so is my Android "Gallery" app that does not list my videos in any logical order and only shows thumbnails (no file names) and tilts all over the place for no damn reason (accelerometer). Here, let me complain about that one for your sake:

Even if I knew that I only wanted to play episode 1 of volume 1 of my Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law rips I made from my own discs, I can't such go to the Harvey Birdman\Volume 1\ director and look for HBV1S01 file or the first one in the list. Oh no. It forces me to hunt by examining collections of thumbnails and remembering which episodes the thumbnails are from until I identify which bundle of thumbnails was the first of three volumes (what if I never watched them before?!) and then I have to go through a process of scanning thumbnails inside that collection, playing random episodes to see if it's the right one and long-pressing files to get BASIC file info (like the frickin' NAME of the file).

I had the same problem the last time I tried to use iTunes for managing videos to watch sequentially over a few weeks on my PC and iPhone 3GS. All my Star Trek The Original Series episodes were reduced to a grid of thumbnails with names like "Star Trek TOS - Th..." and no option for a list/details view. On the iOS devices it was bad enough, but it's even worse seeing a PC limited like this with such bad software design.

He owns no Mac. He also owns a TouchPad running Android which he's had for several times longer than his brand new iPad mini. He's never used OS X. He's talking about not trusting counterfeits for good reasons (watch the YouTube videos where they are disected and compared). He is known on these forums for being particularly critical of people, companies, products, and everything else.

Not really. He's the only one claiming Apple's 30-pin connector is significantly superior to microUSB in reliability. Others don't talk about Apple's 30-pin connector and simply whine about their experiences with microUSB.

You don't get what all "extremes" applies to.

Also, many others only have microUSB to complain about. So what?

 

[WelshBloke]

Given that mUSB and apple connectors are both usb at the other end is there really a difference technically in what they can do?

 

[zsdersw]

Are you kidding? He's been talking about their faults for years, from arbitrary restrictions on things like numeric battery indicators and AVRCP (sold more iPod-certified docks at one time) to manufacturing and design faults and non-user-serviceable batteries. He has a huge list. I guess you've only read his recent posts about being happy with his iPhone 5 and iPad mini. He's done almost nothing but complain about the predecessors for years.

As twins, we disagree often and then argue until we convince the other. We've been through all this. Back when the iPhone 3G launched and we bought our first Apple product, we seemed to be the only people on the Internet complaining that the iPod music interface didn't scroll titles and the pop-up mini player showed more than the full-screen iPod app and the lock screen. That is still entirely unacceptable to me, but so is my Android "Gallery" app that does not list my videos in any logical order and only shows thumbnails (no file names) and tilts all over the place for no damn reason (accelerometer). Here, let me complain about that one for your sake:

Even if I knew that I only wanted to play episode 1 of volume 1 of my Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law rips I made from my own discs, I can't such go to the Harvey Birdman\Volume 1\ director and look for HBV1S01 file or the first one in the list. Oh no. It forces me to hunt by examining collections of thumbnails and remembering which episodes the thumbnails are from until I identify which bundle of thumbnails was the first of three volumes (what if I never watched them before?!) and then I have to go through a process of scanning thumbnails inside that collection, playing random episodes to see if it's the right one and long-pressing files to get BASIC file info (like the frickin' NAME of the file).

I had the same problem the last time I tried to use iTunes for managing videos to watch sequentially over a few weeks on my PC and iPhone 3GS. All my Star Trek The Original Series episodes were reduced to a grid of thumbnails with names like "Star Trek TOS - Th..." and no option for a list/details view. On the iOS devices it was bad enough, but it's even worse seeing a PC limited like this with such bad software design.

He owns no Mac. He also owns a TouchPad running Android which he's had for several times longer than his brand new iPad mini. He's never used OS X. He's talking about not trusting counterfeits for good reasons (watch the YouTube videos where they are disected and compared). He is known on these forums for being particularly critical of people, companies, products, and everything else.

I find it hard to believe that someone so critical, as you claim he is, would find nothing to criticize on the iPhone 5 or iPad Mini.

You don't get what all "extremes" applies to.

Also, many others only have microUSB to complain about. So what?

I don't care that they're complaining about microUSB. When they apply their limited experience as evidence of its universal inferiority is when they draw my attention. I work with hundreds of iOS and Android devices every day... and each of them is handled by a variety of people.

 

[dagamer34]

Given that mUSB and apple connectors are both usb at the other end is there really a difference technically in what they can do?

Yes, because there are actual chips in the Lightning end of the connector that convert raw data signals on the USB side into more useful information that the phone can use. This saves space in the phone itself

 

[WelshBloke]

Yes, because there are actual chips in the Lightning end of the connector that convert raw data signals on the USB side into more useful information that the phone can use. This saves space in the phone itself

But the lightning connector is tiny so the chip can't take up much room, plus the phone itself must have a few magnitudes greater processing power.

Data is data.

 

[CZroe]

Lack of audio, fast-charging, etc were never really the central part of this discussion, nor were they issues I was speaking to. It was centered around the physical durability of such connectors... and in my experience microUSB is hardly the extraordinarily weak offering it is made out to be, and Apple's 30-pin connector not the bastion of reliability it is made out to be.

Ugh. YOU were the one who bolded "less-functional, less-durable" in his post. Those are the functionality differences he was talking about. MicroUSB is better than miniUSB, but that's about the best I can say for it. It should have been designed for the cable connector to break before the device or host. It should have been designed to be reversible or, at the very least, easy to orient by feel (a problem with normal USB A ports/connectors on the other end as well). It should have been designed with pins for audio like ExUSB (doesn't need to be dedicated pins). It should have been designed with compatible locking and non-locking dock connectors that fit the same port. It should have been designed with a standard way to signal the device's charging needs/capabilities (Apple uses resistance between pins when not connected to a host controller).

Instead:
I can barely charge an HP TouchPad with any other microUSB charger, so what good is microUSB as a standard?
I have to plug in two cables to charge my phone while listening to music in the car unless I use a Bluetooth kit, which I don't have. I can't fit my phone in any compartment or cup holder in the car when I plug in both. I am limited to the shortest of two cables that now tangle and interfere with my shift knob.
I have several cables that I can only use for charging because they connect and disconnect rapidly and at random when connected to a host device.
I have several cables that fit some devices fine and other devices too loosely to be trusted.
I have several cables I had to trim around the connector to fit. It was one thing when trying to replace the microUSB cable on my Razer Orochi mouse (fits under the floating mouse wheel), but my sister's Samsung Smiley feature-phone with a very insignificant lip? Ridiculous.

Given that mUSB and apple connectors are both usb at the other end is there really a difference technically in what they can do?

One can be reversed. One may also be able to be Thunderbolt at the other end with an updated chip. One uses a proprietary standard to signal the amps it needs or can draw to a charger that can supply more than the old 0.5A USB standard (proprietary, but hey: at least it's a standard).

But the lightning connector is tiny so the chip can't take up much room, plus the phone itself must have a few magnitudes greater processing power.

Data is data.

It may not be so tiny if they decide to make a Thunderbolt-to-Lightning cable. Not that it justifies the !$~!%~!@#$ lock-out chip

 

[WelshBloke]

...One can be reversed. One may also be able to be Thunderbolt at the other end with an updated chip. One uses a proprietary standard to signal the amps it needs or can draw to a charger that can supply more than the old 0.5A USB standard (proprietary, but hey: at least it's a standard)...

Those all seem fairly trivial things though.

I was more getting at things like playing music through the car stereo and the like. If a car stereo can play music from a usb stick then it should be able to play from an Android phone.

 

[CZroe]

Those all seem fairly trivial things though.

I was more getting at things like playing music through the car stereo and the like. If a car stereo can play music from a usb stick then it should be able to play from an Android phone.

I should have also mentioned the "carries audio + track info" part. It does a lot more than just play through it. It gets the track data, album art, controls playback, etc. It all sounds like something it could do to any USB drive until you think of things like Pandora on Android.

 

[WelshBloke]

I should have also mentioned the "carries audio + track info" part. It does a lot more than just play through it. It gets the track data, album art, controls playback, etc. It all sounds like something it could do to any USB drive until you think of things like Pandora on Android.

I still don't see why it couldn't do that over usb. It's just a data stream.

 

[Ichinisan]

Sorry, I forgot... Apple is perfect to you. What time do you go to services at the Temple of Apple on Sunday?

We have nearly 300 iPads and iPod Touch devices at work... and about 200 Android tablets. I've found nothing extraordinary about the 30-pin connector's reliability and nothing sub-par about microUSB connectors. They break with about the same frequency.

You know what? I don't believe you. I think you are deluding yourself. I might have believed you if you didn't claim to be surrounded by so many devices.

Between myself, my coworkers, and my friends, I've experienced numerous failed-or-loosened microUSB connectors that developed the problem from normal (careful) use. Every other day, someone asks me about fixing a mobile device. I usually direct them to someone that has more time than I do. Overwhelmingly, these devices have a cracked screen. Sometimes it's a blank screen. Sometimes the device won't charge. At work, at home, and everywhere I go; I'm surrounded by Android devices and iDevices every day. I still haven't come across a worn-out 30-pin connector. I know that wear-damaged 30-pin connectors are out there, but there just aren't enough for me to have encountered one yet.

With each wear-damaged microUSB connector I encounter, this observation becomes more and more concrete. MicroUSB isn't just inferior, it's absolutely awful.

Go ahead and tell me that your anecdotes out-weigh mine. You're living in denial.

 

[Ichinisan]

... in my experience microUSB is hardly the extraordinarily weak offering it is made out to be,

Then you have no "experience."

and Apple's 30-pin connector not the bastion of reliability it is made out to be.

I'm sure it can be broken. I can tell you with certainty that far fewer 30-pin dock connectors have failed under normal use than microUSB.

 

[Ichinisan]

Most tech-savvy people recognize technology for what it is: imperfect. They have lists of pros and cons for each gadget they own.

Sounds like you're talking about me.

Not this guy, it seems.

Who? Me?! I don't Think anyone nags manufacturers' feedback systems more than myself. Me, my brother, and a particular friend frequently call each other just to bitch and moan about poor user interfaces and hardware limitations. We take turns bitching and venting while thinking of other technology / UI limitations to bitch about.

He's the only one claiming Apple's 30-pin connector is significantly superior to microUSB in reliability.

I make that claim from extensive personal experience. Oh, well. I guess I shouldn't share my experience because it conflicts with your delusion.

Others don't talk about Apple's 30-pin connector and simply whine about their experiences with microUSB.

Fewer people complain about the 30-pin dock connector because it doesn't fail nearly as often.