Apple potentially shipped 20M iPads Last Q

[cheezy321]

Dell Latitude ST for one, one again it has an active digitizer and Windows for improved security and better options for application development

You need a 9.7" screen to get a signature?



It's not just you, I would never sign a important contract without a physical copy in hand. I have no guarantees about what his app is putting in or omitting from the final signed copy I get in an email.

No, but I am saying the iPad more closely resembles a piece of paper size wise than a Note does.

I have never ever ever had an issue with doing it this way. With hundreds of clients. Seems like you guys are in the minority. If someone wants to edit a contract after the fact, they will do it no matter what medium it is in.

 

[WelshBloke]

At my old job for contracts all we needed was an email reply from the client that said 'I agree - first name last name'. We never had any legal problems with that format either.

I don't know what you are smoking to think 2 printed copies is a better way of doing this. Every client would laugh at me if I brought a laptop, a 3G hotspot stick and a printer to my meetings. Especially for an internet based business.

Re:Bolded Which way is more secure and ensures that the contract wont be changed after the fact.

And as to your first sentence; you can sign a contract on the back of a i love you packet. It doesn't make it the best way to do it though.

 

[WelshBloke]

No, but I am saying the iPad more closely resembles a piece of paper size wise than a Note does.

I have never ever ever had an issue with doing it this way. With hundreds of clients. Seems like you guys are in the minority. If someone wants to edit a contract after the fact, they will do it no matter what medium it is in.

Yes but if there are two hard copies both signed by both signatories there's clear evidence if someone tries to pull something.

 

[cheezy321]

Yes but if there are two hard copies both signed by both signatories there's clear evidence if someone tries to pull something.

I dont understand how you think someone can edit the PDF after its been sent to your inbox immediately after you sign it. You download it on your computer, put it on a thumb drive and there is absolutely no way it can be changed.

I feel like we are getting off topic. I provided a valid way businesses use the iPad as did some others in this thread. People are just plain wrong when they say its useless in a business setting. It might not work for inputting tons of content or information but there are many uses out there for the iPad in a business setting. You may not agree with it but that doesn't mean its wrong.

 

[Aikouka]

I've seen a few restaurants using iDevices for table management and stuff like that.

 

[WelshBloke]

I dont understand how you think someone can edit the PDF after its been sent to your inbox immediately after you sign it. You download it on your computer, put it on a thumb drive and there is absolutely no way it can be changed...

I dont think you would edit it after its been sent.

I dont understand how you cant see that your method is more insecure than mine.

 

[cheezy321]

I dont think you would edit it after its been sent.

I dont understand how you cant see that your method is more insecure than mine.

Then when would it edited? The client signing the contract signs it then presses 'submit'. Bam, its right there in your inbox immediately after. Where/when does the editing take place?

It isn't more insecure than yours, and I fail to see how you have proven this.

 

[PingviN]

CEO - I think we should deploy iPads to increase productivity.
CIO - Uhh, actually...
CEO - Do it or I'll find someone who will.
CIO - How many should I order?

This.

 

[Dominato3r]

Why would you need to create the document on the same device that handles the signing? Carrying around a convertible laptop would be way more annoying than an ARM tablet.

From what I've seen, there's a lot more demand for quick and easy content viewing rather than producing.

In that case wouldn't a cheap android tab make more sense?

 

[WelshBloke]

Then when would it edited? The client signing the contract signs it then presses 'submit'. Bam, its right there in your inbox immediately after. Where/when does the editing take place?

I digitally sign a box on your device. How do I know what my signature will be attached to? How do I know you dont have a different contract that my signature is attached to?

It isn't more insecure than yours, and I fail to see how you have proven this.

It is obviously more insecure. In my system we both have hard copies that never leave our possession. It doesn't get any more secure than that.

 

[cheezy321]

I digitally sign a box on your device. How do I know what my signature will be attached to? How do I know you dont have a different contract that my signature is attached to?

Because you are looking at the contract in question before you sign it....

You go on your computer after you sign it and make sure it matches up with what you just looked at on the ipad...

It is obviously more insecure. In my system we both have hard copies that never leave our possession. It doesn't get any more secure than that.

Whats to stop either party from rewriting it on a computer, changing the terms and printing out a new copy with the same signatures? Usually contracts are multiple pages, you can just change out the first couple pages of it and keep the last page with the signatures

 

[WelshBloke]

Because you are looking at the contract in question before you sign it....

You go on your computer after you sign it and make sure it matches up with what you just looked at on the ipad...

Yes I read the contract but how do I know you dont have a program that captures the signature box and applies it to whatever you want?

I go on my computer and see that it isnt the contract I thought I signed, how do I prove that in court?

Whats to stop either party from rewriting it on a computer, changing the terms and printing out a new copy with the same signatures?

You could do that but then when we go to court over it I can show that your contract doesn't match mine and that yours doesn't have a "real" signature on it but a printed one and that my copy has both our "real" signatures.

 

[cheezy321]

Yes I read the contract but how do I know you dont have a program that captures the signature box and applies it to whatever you want?

I go on my computer and see that it isnt the contract I thought I signed, how do I prove that in court?




You could do that but then when we go to court over it I can show that your contract doesn't match mine and that yours doesn't have a "real" signature on it but a printed one and that my copy has both our "real" signatures.

What if the main parts of the contract are on the front page and the signatures are on the last page? Even if you initial each page it would be pretty easy to forge that. Your 'security' measures are dubious at best and if someone really wanted to change a contract after the fact they would be able to do so fairly easily with both of our methods. Lets just leave it at that.

 

[KLin]

I've seen a few restaurants using iDevices for table management and stuff like that.

Local mexican restaurant use ipads now for their point of sale/timekeeping system. They're mounted above the cash drawers.

 

[KLin]

FFS, stop arguing about how you can forge contracts on a digital device.

 

[WelshBloke]

What if the main parts of the contract are on the front page and the signatures are on the last page? Even if you initial each page it would be pretty easy to forge that. Your 'security' measures are dubious at best and if someone really wanted to change a contract after the fact they would be able to do so fairly easily with both of our methods. Lets just leave it at that.

They are much, much better than the ones that you are proposing.

Theres a proof of signature and ownership of the contract. Yours has neither.

 

[WelshBloke]

FFS, stop arguing about how you can forge contracts on a digital device.

Why? Its an interesting debate about one of the uses of digital devices in the workplace.

Neither of us are being disrespectful or insulting to others,and its fairly on topic.

Whats the problem?

 

[cheezy321]

They are much, much better than the ones that you are proposing.

Theres a proof of signature and ownership of the contract. Yours has neither.

I am not proposing anything. This is something already in place with hundreds of companies around the world. These legal issues you speak of dont seem to bother them.

Your way also significantly reduces productivity. Apparently contracts were never forged before the digital age . This is my last post on the subject. Feel free to argue about the 'good ol days' of paper contracts with someone else.

 

[WelshBloke]

I am not proposing anything. This is something already in place with hundreds of companies around the world. These legal issues you speak of dont seem to bother them.

Your way also significantly reduces productivity. Apparently contracts were never forged before the digital age . This is my last post on the subject. Feel free to argue about the 'good ol days' of paper contracts with someone else.

Well you haven't really countered any of my points so I'm just going to have to assume that you agree that my way is a lot more secure but that you are willing to sacrifice the security for the ease of use. Thats fine in most areas but not (IMHO) for legal contracts.

 

[Axon]

Superior email device, easily portable on the road. Most people at my job just send emails and complain, only a small portion of people do the actual work. You can also edit .doc files pretty nicely.

Oh and it's got a nice calendar on it as well, though any decent tablet has all of the above.

 

[Mopetar]

Yes I read the contract but how do I know you dont have a program that captures the signature box and applies it to whatever you want?

I go on my computer and see that it isnt the contract I thought I signed, how do I prove that in court?

And how does anyone know you haven't employed some clever person who can forge the other party's signature to a piece of paper? And how do they prove that they never signed such a contract in court?

It's not as though this problem has never occurred before and paper is obviously a perfectly tamper-proof method of signing a contract.

If someone wants to tamper with something, they can and will, regardless of what method is being used.

 

[WelshBloke]

And how does anyone know you haven't employed some clever person who can forge the other party's signature to a piece of paper? And how do they prove that they never signed such a contract in court?

It's not as though this problem has never occurred before and paper is obviously a perfectly tamper-proof method of signing a contract.

If someone wants to tamper with something, they can and will, regardless of what method is being used.

Yes but you are forgetting that there are two copies of the contract both signed (not copied after being signed) one in the possession of each party.

So while, yes you can tamper with the contract, I will have evidence that shenanagens has been done.

The method with just the one digital copy leaves me with no evidence that the contract has been changed.

 

[cheezy321]

Yes but you are forgetting that there are two copies of the contract both signed (not copied after being signed) one in the possession of each party.

So while, yes you can tamper with the contract, I will have evidence that shenanagens has been done.

The method with just the one digital copy leaves me with no evidence that the contract has been changed.

I'll just quote what I said earlier that you overlooked (added one more sentence)

What if the main parts of the contract are on the front page and the signatures are on the last page? Keep the last page from original contract and change out the meat and potatoes. Even if you initial each page it would be pretty easy to forge that. If someone really wanted to change a contract after the fact they would be able to do so fairly easily with both of our methods.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'll just quote what I said earlier that you overlooked (added one more sentence)

What if the main parts of the contract are on the front page and the signatures are on the last page? Keep the last page from original contract and change out the meat and potatoes. Even if you initial each page it would be pretty easy to forge that. If someone really wanted to change a contract after the fact they would be able to do so fairly easily with both of our methods.

I didnt overlook that at all.

There would still be clear evidence of both contracts (remember we both have a hard copy signed by both parties) not matching.

 

[mammador]

Why do they use "shipped" as a criterion of high demand? lol...

It simply means iPads have left the factory and been transported to distribution channels. So what? it doesn't from there people will buy them.

It may depend on the organisation and its culture though. As a good mobile solution, an iPad could work, but it has poor functionality for most office apps, relative to a traditional desktop or laptop IMO.