Apple Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger - ** ANANDTECH'S REVIEW POSTED **

[edtsui]

Did anyone notice that the Radeon Mobility 9600 was removed from the Core Image compatible hardware list.? The 9700 is still there and all it is is a higher clocked version of the 9600 from what I've read.

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: edtsui
Did anyone notice that the Radeon Mobility 9600 was removed from the Core Image compatible hardware list.? The 9700 is still there and all it is is a higher clocked version of the 9600 from what I've read.

Yeah, the Mac geeks are freaking out over this, but I think it's just an oversight. Core Image needs Shader 2.0, and the Mobility 9600 supports that. And it's faster card than the GeForce FX 5200, which is listed as supported.

Originally posted by: Ciber
It's not out! 😛

It's umm, Re-announced with a release date! 😉

Out=When i can buy it.

Well, you can already order it at the Apple Store. It is supposed to arrive on the 29th.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: edtsui
Did anyone notice that the Radeon Mobility 9600 was removed from the Core Image compatible hardware list.? The 9700 is still there and all it is is a higher clocked version of the 9600 from what I've read.

Yeah, the Mac geeks are freaking out over this, but I think it's just an oversight. Core Image needs Shader 2.0, and the Mobility 9600 supports that. And it's faster card than the GeForce FX 5200, which is listed as supported.

If it's not an oversight I'll care even less about the upgrade. 😛

 

[Eug]

I think the Apple page is just listing CURRENTLY shipping GPUs. Remember, the Radeon 9800 Pro is not listed either. It's just not shipping in any Macs any more.

You can rest assured that dual G5 Power Mac with Radeon 9800 Pro can easily handle Quartz 2D Extreme and Core Image. 🙂

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Eug
I think the Apple page is just listing CURRENTLY shipping GPUs. Remember, the Radeon 9800 Pro is not listed either. It's just not shipping in any Macs any more.

You can rest assured that dual G5 Power Mac with Radeon 9800 Pro can easily handle Quartz 2D Extreme and Core Image. 🙂

I'll believe it when I see it.

😛

I'll be picking this up eventually. I'm just having trouble getting interested in anything beyond some speed-ups. Getting *nix apps working on it more easily would be nice too. And yes I've tried fink, I just need recent applications.

I have dropped the hint to the girlfriend that it's coming out soon... :evil:

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Eug
I think the Apple page is just listing CURRENTLY shipping GPUs. Remember, the Radeon 9800 Pro is not listed either. It's just not shipping in any Macs any more.

You can rest assured that dual G5 Power Mac with Radeon 9800 Pro can easily handle Quartz 2D Extreme and Core Image. 🙂

I'll believe it when I see it.

😛

I'll be picking this up eventually. I'm just having trouble getting interested in anything beyond some speed-ups. Getting *nix apps working on it more easily would be nice too. And yes I've tried fink, I just need recent applications.

I have dropped the hint to the girlfriend that it's coming out soon... :evil:

$95 at Amazon.com (after rebate) looks better and better. The ads on Apples page really do make it look impressive.

 

[Brent of Liquid5th]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Eug

I'll be picking this up eventually. I'm just having trouble getting interested in anything beyond some speed-ups. Getting *nix apps working on it more easily would be nice too. And yes I've tried fink, I just need recent applications.

I have dropped the hint to the girlfriend that it's coming out soon... :evil:

DarwinPorts is prepping for a 1.0 release. Their repository tends to be pretty up to date, though you wouldn't think so if you looked at their website. Their 'Available Ports' database hasn't been updated in a while.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Brent of Liquid5th

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I'll be picking this up eventually. I'm just having trouble getting interested in anything beyond some speed-ups. Getting *nix apps working on it more easily would be nice too. And yes I've tried fink, I just need recent applications.

I have dropped the hint to the girlfriend that it's coming out soon... :evil:

DarwinPorts is prepping for a 1.0 release. Their repository tends to be pretty up to date, though you wouldn't think so if you looked at their website. Their 'Available Ports' database hasn't been updated in a while.

I'm a stickler for documentation. If they can't be bothered to update it once in a while, how am I going to use it?

It's also behind, at least in the program I was having trouble with. But it's a lot closer to reasonably current.

pkgsrc seems to be the most up to date, but it's a PITA to install.

Thanks for the suggestion though, I might look at it a bit more later. :beer:

 

[daniel1113]

Now Apple just needs to release a G5 Powerbook and I may actually buy a Mac.

Also, I wasn't too impressed by that many of Tiger's "new" features, but this one caught my attention:

Smart Folders - Take the results of a Spotlight search and save it as a Smart Folder that automatically updates as you add or remove documents from your Mac.

Actually sounds like a feature I'd use.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Now Apple just needs to release a G5 Powerbook and I may actually buy a Mac...

The current G4s aren't that bad. I have a ($997 in March 2005) G4/1.33 PB 12.1" GeForce 5200 Go, 1.25GB RAM, and for basic web browsing and such it isn't that bad.

It's clearly slower than my ($1080 in Sept 2004) Gateway M505 (Centrino 1.4, 512MB, Radeon 9600), but it's certainly usable for those who don't care about gaming and don't need something super-fast.

I'm looking forward to using Tiger on it. It can only get better, and if Apple's claim of Tiger's Safari being 1.8x faster than Safari in Panther is true, it will be a good speedup. Safari's pretty pokey compared to the Centrino's speed.

I'd suggest trying out a PB to see what you think of it. Even if the PBs move to the G5, they'll only get one G5. A quick peek over at www.barefeats.com will tell you that will speed it up, but it isn't a night-and-day speedup.

I look forward to the dual-core G4, myself. I'd like to see how that works out.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dclive
I'd suggest trying out a PB to see what you think of it. Even if the PBs move to the G5, they'll only get one G5.

Oh, I've tried plenty. I actually had the opportunity to use one for a few weeks at work while we were testing them out, and was extremely impressed. Hence why I am interested in a PB. However, the G5 PB's can't be that far off, and will be just as fast as the current P4's. I can wait to have the latest and greatest, especially since my primary use will be for video editing and some compositing work.

 

[Eug]

I'm not going to update my PowerBook 1 GHz G4 either until something more compelling is released.

I want a PowerBook G5, but may settle for a G4 7448. The current G4 7447A has a 512 KB L2, but the G4 7448 has 1 MB L2, and should be out in a few months.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

I will be placing an order for Tiger probably after the 29th of April.

I too, am looking forward to the Powerbook G5. I do need a lappy, because I am going to be making movies in my film studies class, and a portable G5 would be great for my video editing.

 

[Eug]

So... I'm told that Tiger's Quartz 2D Extreme is turned off by default, regardless of the GPU in the machine. 🙁

I had thought Quartz 2D Extreme was to replace Quartz 2D but it looks like it's not ready for prime time. Tiger still uses Quartz 2D, not Quartz 2D Extreme.

Note 1: Quartz 2D Extreme is different from Quartz Extreme. Quartz Extreme was introduced in 10.2 Jaguar
Note 2: Quartz 2D Extreme is different from Core Image. Core Image in indeed in 10.4 Tiger.

 

[adlai]

I'm curious: is the mobile 9700 going to be noticably faster than the 5200 for coreimage desktop work?

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: adlai
I'm curious: is the mobile 9700 going to be noticably faster than the 5200 for coreimage desktop work?

What do you mean by "coreimage desktop work"?

For apps that leverage Core Video type functionality, the Mobility 9700 would most definitely be way faster than the 5200. For other stuff the speed difference might be irrelevant.

 

[Brent of Liquid5th]

Originally posted by: Eug
So... I'm told that Tiger's Quartz 2D Extreme is turned off by default, regardless of the GPU in the machine. 🙁

I'm pretty sure that this is not true. This was true for the WWDC build, but needless to say we've come a long way since then. As soon as I find someone running Tiger on supported hardware, I'll let you know for sure.

 

[RichieZ]

Originally posted by: Brent of Liquid5th

Originally posted by: Eug
So... I'm told that Tiger's Quartz 2D Extreme is turned off by default, regardless of the GPU in the machine. 🙁

I'm pretty sure that this is not true. This was true for the WWDC build, but needless to say we've come a long way since then. As soon as I find someone running Tiger on supported hardware, I'll let you know for sure.

it was turned off in 8a425, i had to use the quartz debugger to turn it on

 

[Eug]

Originally posted by: RichieZ

Originally posted by: Brent of Liquid5th

Originally posted by: Eug
So... I'm told that Tiger's Quartz 2D Extreme is turned off by default, regardless of the GPU in the machine. 🙁

I'm pretty sure that this is not true. This was true for the WWDC build, but needless to say we've come a long way since then. As soon as I find someone running Tiger on supported hardware, I'll let you know for sure.

it was turned off in 8a425, i had to use the quartz debugger to turn it on

What hardware? Any display glitches, or other funny behaviour? What kind of a speed boost did you notice?

 

[Brent of Liquid5th]

Apple's Tiger Site seems to be suggesting that Quartz 2D is indeed being piped into Quartz Extreme, although the requirements wouldn't be right. Quartz 2D Extreme requires the same hardware as CoreImage. I guess we will find out later...

 

[Eug]

The requirements listed are for Quartz Extreme. Quartz 2D is done on the CPU.

A Quartz 2D Extreme compatible GPU is indeed what is also required for Core Image (Shader 2.0), and are MUCH higher than the requirements listed on the website (which are for Quartz Extreme).

 

[RichieZ]

Originally posted by: Eug

Originally posted by: RichieZ

Originally posted by: Brent of Liquid5th

Originally posted by: Eug
So... I'm told that Tiger's Quartz 2D Extreme is turned off by default, regardless of the GPU in the machine. 🙁

I'm pretty sure that this is not true. This was true for the WWDC build, but needless to say we've come a long way since then. As soon as I find someone running Tiger on supported hardware, I'll let you know for sure.

it was turned off in 8a425, i had to use the quartz debugger to turn it on

What hardware? Any display glitches, or other funny behaviour? What kind of a speed boost did you notice?

FX5200 so not much to be expected, but tiger in general is just plain snappier. After turning on Q2DEx there may have been a slight improvment but its not "too fast now" as some ppl on Macnn where saying. Haven't gotten any display bugs, but ever since I turned it on I feel like apps are less stable, Office 2004 crashed on me twice today, its rarely crashed on me before, and sometimes dashboard won't show up, i have to log out and log back in. DUnno if its just due to me using the non GM release or turning on Q2dEx

 

[dclive]

How did you turn it on? Is there a reason it wasn't turned on to begin with? What is the performance advantage that you've noticed - snappier in what? Opening windows? Moving windows? If you turn off QD2DX do the crashes go away?

 

[hopejr]

I've ordered Tiger already - quite impressed with what I've seen. I'll run it on my iBook, so I'm not too worried about Quartz 2D Extreme not being on, until I get an iMac G5 Rev. B 😛

 

[Eug]

Well, they just updated Safari 1.3 in Panther with the core from Tiger's Safari's 2.0. It's noticeably faster. Here are the JavaScript benchmarks on my machine:

10.3.8: 104 seconds

10.3.9: 9.97 seconds

This is what Dave Hyatt has to say about the performance improvements: Surfin' Safari

Page Load Performance
Safari 1.3 loads pages overall 35% faster than 1.2 as measured by IBench. In addition to improving the overall page load, Safari 1.3 will display content sooner than 1.2 did, so that subresources don't hold up the initial display of the page.

JavaScript Performance
We have substantially improved the performance of the JavaScript engine in Safari. I encourage you to check out Safari 1.3 on this benchmark for example to see the improvement relative to 1.2.

Did I mention it's really really fast? 🙂