Apple is dropping Boot Camp support for Windows 7.

[Rakehellion]

Its a rather great piece of SW.

Except it hasn't been updated in years to support features a lot of businesses need, like Microsoft's latest OS.

 

[Rakehellion]

Exactly. The people on here saying its better than 7 are just not IT people. And if they are they are not very advanced, probably level one break-fix. IE, geek squad BB workers.

No, most people whining about Windows 8 don't like the GUI. It's a major technological improvement over 7 that computer idiots can't see.

 

[AlexSchwarz]

So use both 😉

 

[WelshBloke]

It makes sense to me. Why would Apple take on supporting two operating systems that aren't even theirs? If you are going to support one it might as well be the latest version. Windows 8 will still launch and run your needed Windows applications as well as Windows 7 so I don't see the issue here.

How does Bootcamp work?

I'd always just assumed that it was a standard dual boot just with a proprietary boot loader and that the windows install just sorted out its drivers in the normal way. I wasnt aware that there was any particularly exotic hardware that didnt already have windows drivers.

 

[Zaap]

How does Bootcamp work?

I'd always just assumed that it was a standard dual boot just with a proprietary boot loader and that the windows install just sorted out its drivers in the normal way. I wasnt aware that there was any particularly exotic hardware that didnt already have windows drivers.

In a sense it is a proprietary boot loader, but it does require drivers specific to Mac hardware- like EFI and hardware like the MacBook trackpads.

Basically, if Apple didn't support it, it'd be like Hackintoshing in reverse to run Windows on a Mac. Do-able, but definitely not seamless the way it should be. (In fact, that's pretty much how it used to be- there was XOM before it.)

 

[WelshBloke]

In a sense it is a proprietary boot loader, but it does require drivers specific to Mac hardware- like EFI and hardware like the MacBook trackpads.

Basically, if Apple didn't support it, it'd be like Hackintoshing in reverse to run Windows on a Mac. Do-able, but definitely not seamless the way it should be. (In fact, that's pretty much how it used to be- there was XOM before it.)

I did think about the trackpad thing but I cant imagine theres a great deal of difference in the win8 driver compared to the win7 driver and how does it make sense to stop supporting the one that youve already written the driver for?

Same for the EFI thing (I thought windows supported UEFI now? Is the Apple version doing something funky?).

"Hackingtoshing in reverse" (great phrase BTW :thumbsup🙂 is a weird idea as windows is designed to run on a vast variety of hardware, the problem with hackingtoshes in general is not having support for your hardware as macOS isnt.

 

[Zaap]

I don't get dropping support for Windows 7 either. It has to be for a corporate reason more than a technical one.

 

[accguy9009]

I don't get dropping support for Windows 7 either. It has to be for a corporate reason more than a technical one.

So very true

 

[lamedude]

Same for the EFI thing (I thought windows supported UEFI now? Is the Apple version doing something funky?).

It looks like until last year Apple was still using the old Intel EFI instead UEFI that Windows supports.

 

[RampantAndroid]

So very true

No, probably not very true. Apple isn't supporting it for the new trash can mac pro. That means they don't want to write the drivers for Win7...given Win7 doesn't use the same drivers as 8 and 8.1. They still support it for all older systems, but the new macs look like they're 8+. This isn't surprising, either.

 

[andy2000]

I'm fairly sure Apple only supports the current Mac OS (and newer) on new models, so it's not surprising they aren't supporting previous versions of Windows. It would probably be possible to run 7 on anyway it unless they've done something specifically to block it.

 

[manly]

I don't get dropping support for Windows 7 either. It has to be for a corporate reason more than a technical one.

Apple retires support for arbitrary reasons all the time, this is just another example.

The drivers example some of you are citing sounds overblown. Most of the components like the GPU would likely use OEM reference drivers under Windows. Maybe Apple tweaks them a bit. I highly doubt they're writing custom drivers for each major component. Even if they were, a company with their resources could easily support teams of developers to maintain those drivers at virtually no impact to their net bottom line.

 

[Compman55]

Its a REALLY stupid move as many businesses have recently upgraded to windows 7 from XP. So certain departments that use apples and maybe need a dual boot, are SOL.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Apple retires support for arbitrary reasons all the time, this is just another example.

The drivers example some of you are citing sounds overblown. Most of the components like the GPU would likely use OEM reference drivers under Windows. Maybe Apple tweaks them a bit. I highly doubt they're writing custom drivers for each major component. Even if they were, a company with their resources could easily support teams of developers to maintain those drivers at virtually no impact to their net bottom line.

So the graphics card is all you need huh? Crack open device manager someday and tell me how many devices are there that need a driver. It's a non-trivial number.

 

[manly]

So the graphics card is all you need huh? Crack open device manager someday and tell me how many devices are there that need a driver. It's a non-trivial number.

reading comprehension isn't your strong suit? I never said the video driver is the only one needed. Yet even the chipset INF generally isn't required, Windows will pick up most mainboards just fine except for maybe the cutting edge.

Point being, Apple writes few Windows device drivers to my knowledge. Feel free to contradict me if you'd like.

 

[ControlD]

reading comprehension isn't your strong suit? I never said the video driver is the only one needed. Yet even the chipset INF generally isn't required, Windows will pick up most mainboards just fine except for maybe the cutting edge.

Point being, Apple writes few Windows device drivers to my knowledge. Feel free to contradict me if you'd like.

According to the Bootcamp FAQ, Apple supplies 20 drivers to be used with Windows. For sure many of these drivers can probably be found elsewhere, but it still seems like a decent amount to me. It isn't necessarily that Apple writes all of these drivers, but they still have to maintain a library that they know works with Windows. As their main focus isn't providing Windows support, it makes sense to me that they stop supporting obsolete versions of Windows (obsolete as in what is being sold as a consumer package).

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5639

 

[RampantAndroid]

reading comprehension isn't your strong suit? I never said the video driver is the only one needed. Yet even the chipset INF generally isn't required, Windows will pick up most mainboards just fine except for maybe the cutting edge.

I have a lot of experience with Windows & drivers through work. Windows has a bunch of generic drivers built in, and some specific drivers also built in. If for whatever reason Apple's board won't match the generic driver (which I kinda bet it won't) then Windows has no driver for it at all.

According to the Bootcamp FAQ, Apple supplies 20 drivers to be used with Windows. For sure many of these drivers can probably be found elsewhere, but it still seems like a decent amount to me. It isn't necessarily that Apple writes all of these drivers, but they still have to maintain a library that they know works with Windows. As their main focus isn't providing Windows support, it makes sense to me that they stop supporting obsolete versions of Windows (obsolete as in what is being sold as a consumer package).

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5639

This.

 

[manly]

Thanks for the info, Dave. I think Apple's language states what I'm saying, except more precisely. They don't write many Windows drivers from scratch, they just rebundle the reference drivers in most cases. Maintaining the library is hardly a chore for a company sitting on $150B of cash.

 

[ControlD]

Thanks for the info, Dave. I think Apple's language states what I'm saying, except more precisely. They don't write many Windows drivers from scratch, they just rebundle the reference drivers in most cases. Maintaining the library is hardly a chore for a company sitting on $150B of cash.

You'll get no argument from me on that one!

 

[accguy9009]

According to the Bootcamp FAQ, Apple supplies 20 drivers to be used with Windows. For sure many of these drivers can probably be found elsewhere, but it still seems like a decent amount to me. It isn't necessarily that Apple writes all of these drivers, but they still have to maintain a library that they know works with Windows. As their main focus isn't providing Windows support, it makes sense to me that they stop supporting obsolete versions of Windows (obsolete as in what is being sold as a consumer package).

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5639

Are the newest Mac Pros considered consumer devices? Would seem they are designed more for commercial use and Windows 7 is anything but obsolete in the business sector.

 

[manly]

Are the newest Mac Pros considered consumer devices? Would seem they are designed more for commercial use and Windows 7 is anything but obsolete in the business sector.

The point Dave may be trying to make is that Apple doesn't give a rat's ass about the enterprise/corporate PC market. So they don't do things big businesses expect like long-term support. Tim Cook came from Compaq, I assume he could make some real strides in this area if he cared enough to.

I wouldn't even loosely use the term 'obsolete' for Windows 7, it still has mainstream support until next year and extended support until 2020. Yes, Microsoft makes consumers jump through hoops if they want Win7 on a new box, but retail inavailability aside, obsolete is still too strong a word.

 

[RampantAndroid]

The point Dave may be trying to make is that Apple doesn't give a rat's ass about the enterprise/corporate PC market. So they don't do things big businesses expect like long-term support. Tim Cook came from Compaq, I assume he could make some real strides in this area if he cared enough to.

I wouldn't even loosely use the term 'obsolete' for Windows 7, it still has mainstream support until next year and extended support until 2020. Yes, Microsoft makes consumers jump through hoops if they want Win7 on a new box, but retail inavailability aside, obsolete is still too strong a word.

I think it comes down to realizing that in the enterprise space, if you want a machine like the mac pro running Windows, you probably just want to build out an actual workstation, not buy a Mac Pro. If you're buying a mac pro just to run Windows, you're doing it wrong. The real issue with Apple & the enterprise market is that each OSX version breaks some level of back compat - something MS usually tries to not do.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm still not getting the drivers thing.

The actual hardware is pretty standard isnt it? Intel CPU, AMD GPU, Intel thunderbolt controller...
I can see that the touchpad is proprietary but I bet Windows would pull down some generic drivers for it, youd lose some functionality but it would probably work.

If you just wiped the drive and installed windows as the lone OS what would happen?

 

[ControlD]

If you just wiped the drive and installed windows as the lone OS what would happen?

I think you could do that, but my understanding has always been that you need a minimal OSX install if you ever want to get any firmware updates for the machine. I looked into doing that on my Mac about a year ago (with Linux rather than OSX) and it just didn't seem like a great idea because I would be stuck at my current firmware level.

 

[ControlD]

Are the newest Mac Pros considered consumer devices? Would seem they are designed more for commercial use and Windows 7 is anything but obsolete in the business sector.

No, I wouldn't consider Mac Pros to be consumer devices. I do think you will see Apple follow this same path whenever the newest consumer Macs are released however. The Mac Pro just happens to be the first device with newer hardware that would have required Apple's engineers to think about Windows 7 driver support. I imagine the number of people that actually need to boot their Mac Pros into Windows 7 (as opposed to running a VM for example) is probably such a small number that it really isn't much of an issue. In these days of powerful machines and virtualization, running a dual boot on such a machine seems like a rather tedious solution.