Apple Event 2016-10-27 -- New Macs finally

[sxr7171]

Now who's getting emotional?

Ha ha! Seriously on construction these Mac people have to be delusional to even think their Aluminum thing is a contender.

 

[sxr7171]

So you don't believe that your beloved isn't the strongest bestest most durable thing on the planet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcW90ngh4g




https://www.google.com/search?q=mac...77orQAhUFLyYKHTlgA8YQ_AUICCgC&biw=375&bih=559

 

[lefenzy]

I don't care that a laptop can get run over by a truck.

I have a T400. Great machine. It survived one corner drop while it was in my bag. But still, in 5 years, I had to replace the hinge (which became loose to point of not holding the screen upright) and backlight (which broke).

It also had a terrible TN panel, was thick, asymmetric, and had a soft rubber coating that wore away over time. thinkpads are corporate machines, durable and good enough, but nothing amazing.

 

[Zaap]

Seriously? Of all things, I've never really heard *anyone* not even the staunchest anti-Mac hater bag on the MacBook Pro for build quality. Bag on the internals or whatever if you like, but the build quality of this device is fantastic.

Like lefenzy said, that doesn't mean I care that a freakin' truck can run over it. I don't drop my valuable things either- NEVER a laptop. I prefer this machine thin and light, not ruggedized or "toddler-proofed" against myself.

The construction is great on these things, and come on, compared to the *average* PC laptop? Get out. Yes, there are a lot of PC laptops with great build quality too, but there's a huge range with questionable-to-passable quality as well.

When I replaced my 2012 when the 2015's came out, I still had the 2012, and it alongside the newer 2015 and couldn't tell one from the other. The 2012 still looked brand-spanking-new. Not the slightest hint of a blemish on it. And I'm careful with it, but not obsessive, especially when I travel.

Honestly, you'd have to treat things like total shit to beat up a MacBook Pro.

 

[Kazukian]

Aluminum is a good material, the larger touch pads are impressing everyone

Ha ha! Seriously on construction these Mac people have to be delusional to even think their Aluminum thing is a contender.

I've had a handful of laptops, the Apple stuff is the best build quality I've owned, the aluminum is such an effective heat conductor, my rMB doesn't even have a fan, and after owning my MB Air for 6 months, when the fan kicked in, I freaked out, had never even heard it before.

I have a friend that buys tons of carbon fiber stuff, it's strong as hell, but if you damage it at all, it looks like hell, and loses a lot of structural integrity.

The thermal properties of carbon fiber aren't great, particularly in mobile applications. Plus the aluminum recycles nicely.

 

[Eug]

Carbon fibre is light but it looks horrible when scuffed. And while aluminum will dent, carbon fibre will often simply crack with a similar impact.

You can build carbon fibre designs to increase its strength, but then you lose much of the weight advantage... and it still looks horrible when scuffed.

 

[JAG87]

Ha ha! Seriously on construction these Mac people have to be delusional to even think their Aluminum thing is a contender.

Listen buddy, the trolling is getting pretty thick. Pick something else, anything else to criticize Apple about. Build quality is not one of those things they lack. Apple builds the finest looking and feeling hardware in the industry. They do not spare once penny on that, they will cut all kinds of corners on what they put inside, but not on how it looks and feels on the outside.

 

[sxr7171]

Carbon fibre is light but it looks horrible when scuffed. And while aluminum will dent, carbon fibre will often simply crack with a similar impact.

You can build carbon fibre designs to increase its strength, but then you lose much of the weight advantage... and it still looks horrible when scuffed.

I disagree about weight. There are many lighter machines out there for the screen size. I've chasing the lightest machines in the world for over a decade. That's why I started with an X31 and had a Vaio Z (way underpowered for any good use) and now imported two generations of Lavie Z from Japan. All machines optimized for weight go with Carbon Fiber or Magnesium or a combo (one on the top the other on the bottom). Then you must ask yourself why BMW puts the material on the roof of the M3/M4. Why does Alfa Romeo make their chassis with it? Why is it one of the lightest cars in the world? Why are all Formula 1 chassis made of it? It is the prime material when weight needs to be reduced. They are not even metal reinforced, because apparently steel would make it weaker. I wish we had a materials engineer here to explain this better. Oh one more - the drive shaft of the BMW M4 is made of it and we know it transmits upwards of 400 horsepower and 400 ft-lbs of torque.

The world's lightest bicycles are made of? It's not aluminum only the cheap ones use that. But you are correctly it saying once Carbon Fiber reaches its limit it will crack. Aluminum dents, then bends then breaks. But the limit is somewhere entirely else with Carbon Fiber.

Also I'm sure you remember the iPhone 4 and 4s. Those were heavy not only because of the glass back but also the stainless steel band around it. I never use a case and drop these phones pretty often. That phone has not a bend or scratch on the band. Every iPhone since they switched to aluminum had the frame bent out of shape by the time I upgrade it. One of them even could not have the glass replaced as the frame was not capable of accepting a new glass so I had to pay the $299 and get a refurb/repaired phone. One thing to keep in mind is that these are aluminum alloys and the one used on the 5 was particularly egregious in how easily it bent and also in how the black version lost it's color. They moved to a stronger alloy for the 6 (or 5s I can't remember) and they talked it up at the keynote. They went with 7000 series Aluminum over the cheaper one they used before. It is interesting to note it was a 6s that was so bent that it would not accept a new glass.

I won't deny the scuffing thing. The only one that scuffed and badly I must add is a Vaio Z that I just left in my trunk and I think bags and things scuffed it up. I wasn't using it anymore so i didn't care but it looks terrible now. The material on these Thinkpads however I can't explain. I haven't had one scuff yet, but maybe I should pull out an older one and test it with a brillo. I know they do get scratched in use but at most they seem to get a slight indent if someone were to key it really hard and due to the matte finish they use those aren't very visible. They seem to get covered and hidden with just random oils they get covered with.

But basically I really don't consider Aluminum a premium material and nobody else in the industry does either. All premium positioned and priced laptops have been either Magnesium alloy or Carbon Fiber or both. For more than 10 years!

In terms of scuffing I think the material parameters have a lot to do with it, as there's a $3000 carry on by Zero Halliburton that is made of Carbon Fiber. They would be quite ballsy to offer that with a lifetime warranty knowing how badly airlines will throw it around. Also seeing car roofs with the material stand up to being a car roof without getting scuffed shows the material can make it. That one Vaio might have had a cheaper resin involved? I'm not an expert on Carbon Fiber, but I do think it is the material of the future as fabrication costs go down. The industry for over a decade has offered top end business class laptops only with it or at least magnesium alloy. The only company to disagree? You know it.

 

[sxr7171]

Listen buddy, the trolling is getting pretty thick. Pick something else, anything else to criticize Apple about. Build quality is not one of those things they lack. Apple builds the finest looking and feeling hardware in the industry. They do not spare once penny on that, they will cut all kinds of corners on what they put inside, but not on how it looks and feels on the outside.

Of course they do buddy. Ha ha! When I went to the Apple store after getting a brand new warranty replaced iPhone 5 in the box and complained about how the black model loses it's black color within minutes of simply putting it in a pocket they guy laughed it off. He kind of said hold it different or put it in a case because its delicate or something like that. Everyone knows the powder coat or paint or whatever cheap process they used on the 5 wasn't made to last through a particularly strong sneeze.

At least this time they warned buyers of the glossy black that it needs to be kept protected.

I just look at the same recycled design for over a decade and wonder if they are afraid to change it.

On the inside it's pretty much commodity hardware at this point.

 

[JAG87]

I disagree about weight. There are many lighter machines out there for the screen size. I've chasing the lightest machines in the world for over a decade. That's why I started with an X31 and had a Vaio Z (way underpowered for any good use) and now imported two generations of Lavie Z from Japan. All machines optimized for weight go with Carbon Fiber or Magnesium or a combo (one on the top the other on the bottom). Then you must ask yourself why BMW puts the material on the roof of the M3/M4. Why does Alfa Romeo make their chassis with it? Why is it one of the lightest cars in the world? Why are all Formula 1 chassis made of it? It is the prime material when weight needs to be reduced. They are not even metal reinforced, because apparently steel would make it weaker. I wish we had a materials engineer here to explain this better. Oh one more - the drive shaft of the BMW M4 is made of it and we know it transmits upwards of 400 horsepower and 400 ft-lbs of torque.

The world's lightest bicycles are made of? It's not aluminum only the cheap ones use that. But you are correctly it saying once Carbon Fiber reaches its limit it will crack. Aluminum dents, then bends then breaks. But the limit is somewhere entirely else with Carbon Fiber.

Also I'm sure you remember the iPhone 4 and 4s. Those were heavy not only because of the glass back but also the stainless steel band around it. I never use a case and drop these phones pretty often. That phone has not a bend or scratch on the band. Every iPhone since they switched to aluminum had the frame bent out of shape by the time I upgrade it. One of them even could not have the glass replaced as the frame was not capable of accepting a new glass so I had to pay the $299 and get a refurb/repaired phone. One thing to keep in mind is that these are aluminum alloys and the one used on the 5 was particularly egregious in how easily it bent and also in how the black version lost it's color. They moved to a stronger alloy for the 6 (or 5s I can't remember) and they talked it up at the keynote. They went with 7000 series Aluminum over the cheaper one they used before. It is interesting to note it was a 6s that was so bent that it would not accept a new glass.

I won't deny the scuffing thing. The only one that scuffed and badly I must add is a Vaio Z that I just left in my trunk and I think bags and things scuffed it up. I wasn't using it anymore so i didn't care but it looks terrible now. The material on these Thinkpads however I can't explain. I haven't had one scuff yet, but maybe I should pull out an older one and test it with a brillo. I know they do get scratched in use but at most they seem to get a slight indent if someone were to key it really hard and due to the matte finish they use those aren't very visible. They seem to get covered and hidden with just random oils they get covered with.

But basically I really don't consider Aluminum a premium material and nobody else in the industry does either. All premium positioned and priced laptops have been either Magnesium alloy or Carbon Fiber or both. For more than 10 years!

In terms of scuffing I think the material parameters have a lot to do with it, as there's a $3000 carry on by Zero Halliburton that is made of Carbon Fiber. They would be quite ballsy to offer that with a lifetime warranty knowing how badly airlines will throw it around. Also seeing car roofs with the material stand up to being a car roof without getting scuffed shows the material can make it. That one Vaio might have had a cheaper resin involved? I'm not an expert on Carbon Fiber, but I do think it is the material of the future as fabrication costs go down. The industry for over a decade has offered top end business class laptops only with it or at least magnesium alloy. The only company to disagree? You know it.

It's quite evident by your own tellings, that you do not know how to treat your belongings. It really has nothing to do with Apple's build quality, and all to do with you. You sound like the typical user at the Apple Store or on the subway, holding a device that looks like it's has ran through a washing machine together with cinder blocks.

 

[sxr7171]

So this isn't even a "premium" Thinkpad. It's one of the cheap ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkt5KL7lb0

Another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMkSxdR-W0g

Notice the hardhats, some machines get used on job sites and places more risky than the coffee shop.

 

[sxr7171]

It's quite evident by your own tellings, that you do not know how to treat your belongings. It really has nothing to do with Apple's build quality, and all to do with you. You sound like the typical user at the Apple Store or on the subway, holding a device that looks like it's has ran through a washing machine together with cinder blocks.

I've never replaced any laptop because I broke it. The one Vaio was mothballed and left in trunk for years and last I saw it was scuffed badly. iPhones for sure. I'm not putting a case on a device that millions were spent on for weight and thickness period. They fall, they break, I get insurance or Apple care.

The one Macbook Air did get a few ounces of liquid in it but that's going to happen when people are around and drinks are being served. If I need to worry about a workhorse then it's not a workhorse and instead it makes me work hard to keep it in poser pristine condition for the coffee shop visits. That's the difference. One works for you and the other you need to work for. I'm not the guy who buys a leather couch and tops it with plastic. I'd rather get one that is cheaper that I can use and dispose of when it's done.

Both laptops I currently use look great. Why? Carbon Fiber/Magnesium Alloy construction. If you have to baby a material possession then you probably can't afford it. You buy a performance car you drive it for performance. If you need to baby it then maybe you bought it for looks or to be a poseur with it. I strongly feel mechanical and electronic things are for them to work for you not the other way around. That's not to say you neglect needed maintenance or fail to keep them clean. But beyond that I'm not looking for something else to watch out for. That's what kids and pets are for.

Did you see all those pics of dented Macbooks? Did you ever own an iPhone 5?

 

[sxr7171]

You have to also consider that every serious SLR camera since the time they made cameras were magnesium alloy. Why? Cameras have to go everywhere. They get dropped, they go to war zones, they go to construction sites, they go everywhere. If Canon said "hey we made it from aluminum" they'd get laughed out of the market.

I was looking into the Panasonic Toughbooks which are used by military, law enforcement and construction sectors. Those use Magnesium alloy as well.

 

[Eug]

I disagree about weight. There are many lighter machines out there for the screen size. I've chasing the lightest machines in the world for over a decade. That's why I started with an X31 and had a Vaio Z (way underpowered for any good use) and now imported two generations of Lavie Z from Japan. All machines optimized for weight go with Carbon Fiber or Magnesium or a combo (one on the top the other on the bottom). Then you must ask yourself why BMW puts the material on the roof of the M3/M4. Why does Alfa Romeo make their chassis with it? Why is it one of the lightest cars in the world? Why are all Formula 1 chassis made of it? It is the prime material when weight needs to be reduced. They are not even metal reinforced, because apparently steel would make it weaker. I wish we had a materials engineer here to explain this better. Oh one more - the drive shaft of the BMW M4 is made of it and we know it transmits upwards of 400 horsepower and 400 ft-lbs of torque.

They make jet turbines out of aluminum, too, so what's your point?

We are not talking about racing cars or jet turbines. We are talking about laptops. Typically laptops don't use the highest grades of carbon fibre, or the highest grades of aluminum for that matter.

The world's lightest bicycles are made of? It's not aluminum only the cheap ones use that. But you are correctly it saying once Carbon Fiber reaches its limit it will crack. Aluminum dents, then bends then breaks. But the limit is somewhere entirely else with Carbon Fiber.

I'm glad you mentioned this. Carbon bikes are valued for their lightness, but they are not typically known for their resistance to impact, with real world designs. For the grades and designs of carbon fibre typically used for mass produced bicycles, they have a tendency for catastrophic failure upon significant impact. For this reason, while carbon fibre is really popular for road bikes, for downhill bikes, not so much.

For a metal, aluminum tends to be brittle, but it's less prone to cracking than carbon as implemented in bikes. With the same sort of stress, aluminum will often deform (yet still can be ridden), but carbon will just crack.

You can successfully design a mountain bike to use carbon, but you have to design around carbon's limitations. The problem with this is increasing weight vs the lightest carbon fibre designs, cost of materials, and just as importantly, the lack of experience by some designers. Do you really think that most laptops built with carbon fibre have the same design experience behind them as those who design carbon bike frames or racing car parts?

That's why it's not uncommon to see carbon fibre laptops with cracks and what not, some even with just regular use and no impacts.

But basically I really don't consider Aluminum a premium material and nobody else in the industry does either. All premium positioned and priced laptops have been either Magnesium alloy or Carbon Fiber or both. For more than 10 years!

Magnesium is used partially because it is generally cheaper than aluminum when you consider overall manufacturing costs. The material costs are not super high, and the machining costs etc. are not as high either. Aluminum material costs and production costs for the parts are generally more expensive, or sometimes about the same.

Both magnesium and aluminum are "premium" metals for designing laptops. The each have their pluses and minuses, but all things being equal, you're actually often saving money (lower production costs) by going with magnesium, which is one reason why companies choose magnesium over aluminum.

BTW, Apple has already been using magnesium for a long time. The old aluminum G4 PowerBooks weren't made from just aluminum. They were aluminum and magnesium. Even the polycarbonate iBooks had magnesium frames.

P.S. I love steel, but it's heavy. For phones I think steel is fine though, since I kind of like the extra weight actually, for a phone. For a laptop? Not so much. My next laptop is going to be a 2 lb MacBook. Would I buy a carbon fibre MacBook? Maybe, but if I did, I'd be sure to put a cover on it. With an aluminum MacBook, I probably won't (based on my experience with other aluminum Apple products). That alone would negate the weight advantage in my case.

 

[JAG87]

If you have to baby a material possession then you probably can't afford it. You buy a performance car you drive it for performance. If you need to baby it then maybe you bought it for looks or to be a poseur with it. I strongly feel mechanical and electronic things are for them to work for you not the other way around. That's not to say you neglect needed maintenance or fail to keep them clean. But beyond that I'm not looking for something else to watch out for. That's what kids and pets are for.

Did you see all those pics of dented Macbooks? Did you ever own an iPhone 5?

So if you can't afford the loss of something, then you can't afford it? Yea that makes perfect sense...

See, that's exactly it. It seems you need to make efforts to keep your shit looking neat, whereas I don't. For me it's just common sense (something you and most people seem to lack), it comes second nature due to experience. Putting a loose laptop inside of a trunk is something that would not even cross my mind. I never bought the slate iPhone 5 because, having previous experience with anodized aluminum (2012 and before), I knew that it would end up looking like shit after 2 months from mere laying surface abrasions. So I bought a white one, no big deal for one gen. I can count the times I have dropped a device on one hand (and funny enough most of those times were due to other people's carelessness). I have never broken a screen, I have never water damaged anything. And yes, I use my phone naked (most of the time, I do have a case for certain usages). But no, my devices aren't inside of an otterbox case and wrapped in bubble wrap.

I realize that most folks lack common sense, and will mistreat their crap several times a day. I see these people every day. But to argue that Apple devices are poorly built because such people exist... that is truly hilarious.

You have to also consider that every serious SLR camera since the time they made cameras were magnesium alloy. Why? Cameras have to go everywhere. They get dropped, they go to war zones, they go to construction sites, they go everywhere. If Canon said "hey we made it from aluminum" they'd get laughed out of the market.

I was looking into the Panasonic Toughbooks which are used by military, law enforcement and construction sectors. Those use Magnesium alloy as well.

Yes, and Apple devices aren't engineered or marketed as "rugged". So perhaps use common sense? If you need a device for the field, either 1) use proper casing for it, or 2) buy a device that is adequate for that job.

 

[Kazukian]

Anyone else tired of discussing aluminum?

I'm happy with my rMB, and it meets my needs.

Next?

 

[Tweak155]

Got a chance to see the new dark MBP in person yesterday... that thing is NICE. Anyone who thinks it is bad quality I think has some bias. Not saying there is nothing BETTER on the market, but stating it is BAD quality is just dishonest.

That said, Apple I think has finally out-priced themselves. While I'd love one of these new machines, they're just not worth the asking price. Too many limitations when considering the ports alone. I might pick one up when they finally hit reality pricing, but for now I'm holding onto my money.

Also for anyone else not happy with the pricing, check my sig... got a 15" MBP for sale from a friend Still using a 2012 MBA myself, although I may look towards a used MacBook (12") or maybe finally try an XPS. I prefer mobility to power house... for now.

 

[ControlD]

That said, Apple I think has finally out-priced themselves. While I'd love one of these new machines, they're just not worth the asking price. Too many limitations when considering the ports alone. I might pick one up when they finally hit reality pricing, but for now I'm holding onto my money.

I agree with you when it comes to the casual consumer at least. People that use Macs for a living can obviously justify the extra cost. I really wanted to upgrade my wife's home laptop, which is currently a 2011 13" Air. The trackpad is completely non-functional, the thing sounds like a jet engine anytime she is playing whatever it is she plays (Candy Crush or such). I just don't think I can justify the price when Apple got rid of her two most used features: (1) USB ports and (2) Magsafe. I suppose we could come up with a solution for the USB ports, but Magsafe was literally the feature that sold her on a Mac. The form factor sold her on the Air. The price was reasonable as well. Now the price is more, Magsafe is gone and easy USB functionality is gone as well. Time to look elsewhere.

 

[Tweak155]

I agree with you when it comes to the casual consumer at least. People that use Macs for a living can obviously justify the extra cost. I really wanted to upgrade my wife's home laptop, which is currently a 2011 13" Air. The trackpad is completely non-functional, the thing sounds like a jet engine anytime she is playing whatever it is she plays (Candy Crush or such). I just don't think I can justify the price when Apple got rid of her two most used features: (1) USB ports and (2) Magsafe. I suppose we could come up with a solution for the USB ports, but Magsafe was literally the feature that sold her on a Mac. The form factor sold her on the Air. The price was reasonable as well. Now the price is more, Magsafe is gone and easy USB functionality is gone as well. Time to look elsewhere.

Yeah might as well save some money and get a 2015 model while they're still available if you really want a newer Mac. They're just as capable for a casual user. Those 3 points are good, although personally I'm not as concerned about MagSafe... I do hear that comment fairly regularly when I think back though.

 

[Eug]

Griffin sells their breaksafe charger, which turns a USBC port into a makeshift MagSafe connection. However, it's effectively another mini-dongle.

 

[sxr7171]

Got a chance to see the new dark MBP in person yesterday... that thing is NICE. Anyone who thinks it is bad quality I think has some bias. Not saying there is nothing BETTER on the market, but stating it is BAD quality is just dishonest.

That said, Apple I think has finally out-priced themselves. While I'd love one of these new machines, they're just not worth the asking price. Too many limitations when considering the ports alone. I might pick one up when they finally hit reality pricing, but for now I'm holding onto my money.

Also for anyone else not happy with the pricing, check my sig... got a 15" MBP for sale from a friend Still using a 2012 MBA myself, although I may look towards a used MacBook (12") or maybe finally try an XPS. I prefer mobility to power house... for now.

It's nowhere bad quality. It's just nowhere near as premium as its price would suggest. That's all I'm saying.

I would add the pricing is borderline outrageous considering what's out there. They are milking the brand premium harder than ever.

My point is simple while the competition right now has really stepped their game up immensely. Apple just wants to make it thinner and add $1000 to the price. It's the opposite of wanting to compete. It's like they said "screw it let's just milk the brand until we kill the product category".

 

[JAG87]

It's nowhere bad quality. It's just nowhere near as premium as its price would suggest. That's all I'm saying.

I would add the pricing is borderline outrageous considering what's out there. They are milking the brand premium harder than ever.

My point is simple while the competition right now has really stepped their game up immensely. Apple just wants to make it thinner and add $1000 to the price. It's the opposite of wanting to compete. It's like they said "screw it let's just milk the brand until we kill the product category".

That's a very different position from your previous "Apple makes junk made out of aluminum" point of view.

Nobody will arguing with you there. The new Macs are seriously overpriced, they are overpriced in the US, never mind everywhere else in the world! Apple doesn't seem to factor that the exchange rate makes their products look like un-affordable concept devices to most people outside the US.

The old 13" MBP base was $1549 in Canada. The new 13" MBP base is $2399 in Canada. For a device with 256GB storage and integrated graphics... That's cray. And it's even worse in Euroland.

There is much better value for your $ to be had in the marketplace today.

 

[sxr7171]

So if you can't afford the loss of something, then you can't afford it? Yea that makes perfect sense...

See, that's exactly it. It seems you need to make efforts to keep your shit looking neat, whereas I don't. For me it's just common sense (something you and most people seem to lack), it comes second nature due to experience. Putting a loose laptop inside of a trunk is something that would not even cross my mind. I never bought the slate iPhone 5 because, having previous experience with anodized aluminum (2012 and before), I knew that it would end up looking like shit after 2 months from mere laying surface abrasions. So I bought a white one, no big deal for one gen. I can count the times I have dropped a device on one hand (and funny enough most of those times were due to other people's carelessness). I have never broken a screen, I have never water damaged anything. And yes, I use my phone naked (most of the time, I do have a case for certain usages). But no, my devices aren't inside of an otterbox case and wrapped in bubble wrap.

I realize that most folks lack common sense, and will mistreat their crap several times a day. I see these people every day. But to argue that Apple devices are poorly built because such people exist... that is truly hilarious.



Yes, and Apple devices aren't engineered or marketed as "rugged". So perhaps use common sense? If you need a device for the field, either 1) use proper casing for it, or 2) buy a device that is adequate for that job.

It was mothballed. What that means is that I didn't plan on using it anymore. That's why it's the only machine I own with outward damage.

You're right Apple devices aren't sold as rugged. They really need to be cared for more than a Dell E series, Thinkpad, HP business line etc. Otherwise they dent or the edges get scratched. I'd love to pay a $1000 premium for the privilege.

 

[JAG87]

It was mothballed. What that means is that I didn't plan on using it anymore. That's why it's the only machine I own with outward damage.

You're right Apple devices aren't sold as rugged. They really need to be cared for more than a Dell E series, Thinkpad, HP business line etc. Otherwise they dent or the edges get scratched. I'd love to pay a $1000 premium for the privilege.

Whatever man, we've already gotten to the bottom of this. You dent and scratch your shit, and I don't. That's not what the extra $1000 is for. If you don't know what it's for, then you probably shouldn't be in this forum section to begin with.

 

[sxr7171]

That's a very different position from your previous "Apple makes junk made out of aluminum" point of view.

Nobody will arguing with you there. The new Macs are seriously overpriced, they are overpriced in the US, never mind everywhere else in the world! Apple doesn't seem to factor that the exchange rate makes their products look like un-affordable concept devices to most people outside the US.

The old 13" MBP base was $1549 in Canada. The new 13" MBP base is $2399 in Canada. For a device with 256GB storage and integrated graphics... That's cray. And it's even worse in Euroland.

There is much better value for your $ to be had in the marketplace today.

My point is the Aluminum is not really a premium material in the electronics world. It has always been magnesium for cameras and professional instrumentation. The same carried over when business class laptops came out. Then came Carbon Fiber. It all came from a desire to go thinner and stronger.

Apple also tried to innovate in this regard when they released the titanium MacBooks. They really wanted to advance the state of the art. The problem was they did it but found soon enough the economics weren't going to work.

So they fell back on Aluminum. The unibody design is new and novel no doubt. It's actually pretty cool how it's milled from a solid block. But I think that around the 5 year mark after it came out they should have moved on for a "premium" product. They didn't waste even a year to get out of Titanium. I suspect both were being worked on simultaneously and the milled aluminum design was the fallback.

If you look at the marketplace generally Aluminum is used by budget manufacturers on near premium machines. The average consumer would think any metal is more premium than something that feels plasticky as magnesium alloy and Carbon fiber would feel like. So it's kind of a perception optimized design over actual weight and strength.

We have seen the endurance of various magnesium and Carbon fiber laptops over the last decade. I don't mind if they keep Aluminum for the lower end machines. But when you get into this kind of pricing you have to expect that you fit the product for what professionals want and need. And it isn't looks or the perception of premium build. They just want the best materials for the purpose.

If the machine is going to be called "pro" and priced for professionals frankly it should also be built for professionals. IMHO it just looks like it's built for looks and to impress others. It certainly is priced to impress.


I really do feel for people in Canada who will suffer. But I'm secretly happy that they will now discover the amazing world that has blossomed on the Windows side. They will get more value and performance just for taking a moment to look outside the box.

Edit: With this level of pricing I feel they should explore the possibility of going with Titanium again.