Apple Event 2016-10-27 -- New Macs finally

[TheStu]

wait, the 13" Pro has TWO ports? Including charging and display out?! Are you serious? Need to get my wife a new mac, but goddamn it's painful how crippled these things are, and it's getting worse.

So if she want's to plug in power, USB stick and a mouse? Out of ports. Mouse+kb? Sorry, no charging. Display and power? Sorry no USB stick. How the hell do you work with this thing? What the heck is the point of this? The whole side of the PC is empty space, there's nothing there. Why can't you put some ports there?!

And the only alternative is previous gen. A $2k PC with a processor from 2014! great.

The base rMBP13 has 2 USB-C/TB3 ports, the next step up has a 30% faster CPU, 2 more USB-C/TB3 ports, and the new Touch Bar.

Get a hub/adapter. Yes, it sucks. Besides, if the Mac is being used at a desk often enough the hub actually makes your life easier since now you literally only have the 1 cable to plug in.

 

[Kaido]

That's pretty much where I am is well. My wife is due for an upgrade and she was really hoping for a new Air. With the prices and so-so hardware I think she will be moving back to the Windows world this next time around. Which is fine with me, We have never been that thrilled with OSX (MacOS, whatever they choose to call it). I can't quite get her talked into Linux yet but I have some time to work on that it seems.

Yeah, my wife wanted a Rose Macbook to replace her Hackintosh (for mobility), but that's got USB-C as well, and the 512gb version is also ~$1500. The Windows offerings are so much cheaper & have standard ports, not to mention all of the awesome designs you can get for an equivalent cost (2-in-1's, Wacom MobileStudio, HP Elite X2, etc.). Really, the only qualms I have with the Windows OS at this point are (1) the risk of viruses, and (2) that you can't truly disable updates on Windows 10, which is annoying. Beyond that, nearly all of the software packages are cross-platform at this point, so there's not really much holding us back from switching to Windows, as much as I hate to say it...

 

[Kaido]

The base rMBP13 has 2 USB-C/TB3 ports, the next step up has a 30% faster CPU, 2 more USB-C/TB3 ports, and the new Touch Bar.

Get a hub/adapter. Yes, it sucks. Besides, if the Mac is being used at a desk often enough the hub actually makes your life easier since now you literally only have the 1 cable to plug in.

See, that's another thing that bugs me...why is there no WiGig support for wireless docking stations for Apple laptops? Apple has never been a fan of docks for reasons I don't understand, probably aesthetics lol. They work fantastic on the Dells I've used, and HP's latest wireless dock looks awesome:

http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-advanced-wireless-docking-station-f7m97ut-aba

The crazy thing with the laptops tho is the hardware. I can get this Toshiba for $844 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite-P55W-Touchscreen-i7-6500U/dp/B01FVWPS8K/

That has a Skylake i7, 12 gigs of RAM, a 4K screen with 10-finger multi-touch, all in a package that is only 0.79" thick. The screen flips back for 2-in-1 mode & there's no hinge-tilt limit; you can lay it perfectly flat if you want. Plus an SD card reader, backlit keyboard, a pair of USB 3.0 ports, etc. All for under $900 shipped. And Apple wants me to buy their "new" Skylake laptop with a touch strip (not touch screen) starting at $1,800. I really hate to knock the Apple bandwagon, as I've been a huge fan forever, but the Windows mobile offerings these days are killing it both in terms of features & pricing...really the OS is the only thing to hold onto these days.

 

[Kaido]

Regarding the fingerprint integration, is anyone else bothered by how much Apple is pushing you to buy stuff? It kinda makes me sick that they're now literally advertising that you can buy stuff using your finger on the touch strip on the new Macbook Pro. Like c'mon, if you just spent $1,799 on a laptop, are you even going to have any money left? lol. Corporate-wise, the Apple culture is so focused on what their hardware lets you do to spend money that nobody is stepping back & saying uhhh...lol.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

Yeah, my wife wanted a Rose Macbook to replace her Hackintosh (for mobility), but that's got USB-C as well, and the 512gb version is also ~$1500. The Windows offerings are so much cheaper & have standard ports, not to mention all of the awesome designs you can get for an equivalent cost (2-in-1's, Wacom MobileStudio, HP Elite X2, etc.). Really, the only qualms I have with the Windows OS at this point are (1) the risk of viruses, and (2) that you can't truly disable updates on Windows 10, which is annoying. Beyond that, nearly all of the software packages are cross-platform at this point, so there's not really much holding us back from switching to Windows, as much as I hate to say it...

I didn't even think of the SD card reader! Gone too. We have several SLRs. Uploading some photos while traveling and processing them on this monster-powerful machine? Nope! Unless you bring that micro USB to type-C cord that you won't use for anything else..

My wife actually said maybe she should just get windows, it's what she has at work after all. I didn't want to get bitching every time she had computer issues so said nah, just get a mac. I don't use macs so I can't help! win-win.. Rethinking that now. Save lots of money and not dealing with a crippled PC. Some windows tech support could be worth it for that. Like you say there are so many great windows options. Hear that apple? "Options". It's a thing.

So get quad core mac (and more than 1 port after charging) we'd need to spend $2500. Looking at the XPS 13 and 15s you get so much for that half that! Pack on and go up to two grand and it's just an awesome PC, and we still "save" $500! So.many.ports. With 13" you even get kaby lake quad, 500GB SSD and QHD display, for $1900!

 

[Eug]

Looking at Kaby Lake Y Windows 10 options. What's out there that is decent? Preferably under 1 kg.

Edit:

Found this:

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/

How well does Windows 10 do with high dpi screens these days?

 

[Kaido]

I didn't even think of the SD card reader! Gone too. We have several SLRs. Uploading some photos while traveling and processing them on this monster-powerful machine? Nope! Unless you bring that micro USB to type-C cord that you won't use for anything else..

My wife actually said maybe she should just get windows, it's what she has at work after all. I didn't want to get bitching every time she had computer issues so said nah, just get a mac. I don't use macs so I can't help! win-win.. Rethinking that now. Save lots of money and not dealing with a crippled PC. Some windows tech support could be worth it for that. Like you say there are so many great windows options. Hear that apple? "Options". It's a thing.

So get quad core mac (and more than 1 port after charging) we'd need to spend $2500. Looking at the XPS 13 and 15s you get so much for that half that! Pack on and go up to two grand and it's just an awesome PC, and we still "save" $500! So.many.ports. With 13" you even get kaby lake quad, 500GB SSD and QHD display, for $1900!

Same, we primarily use ours for photos & some video/audio (mostly SD, with some CF cards). Photoshop runs on Windows. Premiere runs on Windows. Lightroom runs on Windows. That HP Elite X2 has a Wacom pen with 2,048 levels of pressure, so it's not just a regular crappy pen for touchscerens. More & more laptops are offering 4K screens (3840 x 2160), vs. Apple's "Retina" screen (2880 x 1800 on the 15" & 2560 x 1600 on the 13"). You can flip a lot of the new laptops back to use them as a tablet, and some even detach completely from the keyboard. And Apple's big innovation this year is...drumroll...a colored touch strip above the keyboard. Taking a step out of my Apple fanboy bubble to see the larger perspective, was that really the best they could do? I mean, take a look at Jumi Remote. I've been using this on the Windows side of things for years. It basically turns your iPhone (or iTouch) into a wireless, 100% customizable remote control for doing anything you want to on a PC (plus you can tie it into more advanced stuff, like Macro Express). Here's a gallery of sample remotes:

http://www.jumitech.com/page.php?page=remotegallery

Create a skin, map the buttons, setup the programming, voila! I've done tons of really useful projects with this technology, everything from instant-trade software for a day trader to a wireless smarthome controller. I mean, why not integrate an iTouch right into the laptop's trackpad? The possibilities of usefulness would be endless, vs. just a simple touch strip that you have to reach over & above the keyboard keys to access. And if you really want that touch strip, why not save the $300, buy an older iPad Mini, and setup console software like this?

http://ctrlconsole.com/

Pre-programmed controllers for FCPX, Lightroom, etc. with buttons, gesture controller, wireless operation, you name it:

And here we are, in 2016, with a touch strip for $1,799. Yup.

 

[Kaido]

Looking at Kaby Lake Y Windows 10 options. What's out there that is decent? Preferably under 1 kg.

Edit:

Found this:

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/

How well does Windows 10 do with high dpi screens these days?

Are you in any rush? They are just ramping up with shipping out laptops with the 7th-gen chips...it would be worth waiting a few months to see what comes out, imo. Plus, you'll be able to buy one with an NVIDIA 1060 or 1070 for insane graphical horsepower in a non-insane size, if you want a strong GPU.

 

[Eug]

Not in a rush. Strong GPU not necessary. Looking for fanless. MacBook 12" fits the bill for April but it's expensive and I'm willing to entertain other options, esp. since I've now learned that Apple's USB-C to VGA dongle sucks. According to reviews, the dongle is unreliable and unstable. WTF, Apple?!??

 

[sxr7171]

Regarding the fingerprint integration, is anyone else bothered by how much Apple is pushing you to buy stuff? It kinda makes me sick that they're now literally advertising that you can buy stuff using your finger on the touch strip on the new Macbook Pro. Like c'mon, if you just spent $1,799 on a laptop, are you even going to have any money left? lol. Corporate-wise, the Apple culture is so focused on what their hardware lets you do to spend money that nobody is stepping back & saying uhhh...lol.

For years now we know Apple wants you to spend money on Apple Pay. They get a nice cut I'm sure. They don't care if they bankrupt you.

The Windows virus thing is way overplayed these days. I don't remember getting one for half a decade on Windows.


Keep in mind Lenovo is doing a pre Black Friday sale and that Thinkpad X1 yoga with OLED is going for cheap. Call in and get about an extra $100 off. I simply asked the rep if he can work with me on price. That's it. It has a fingerprint reader but it's for logging on not buying stuff. The built in pen also has 2048 levels of pressure.

Also that WiGig dock is available for it. So much more technologically advanced. MacBooks are more fashion advanced. Like beats headphones.

 

[Kaido]

For years now we know Apple wants you to spend money on Apple Pay. They get a nice cut I'm sure. They don't care if they bankrupt you.

The Windows virus thing is way overplayed these days. I don't remember getting one for half a decade on Windows.


Keep in mind Lenovo is doing a pre Black Friday sale and that Thinkpad X1 yoga with OLED is going for cheap. Call in and get about an extra $100 off. I simply asked the rep if he can work with me on price. That's it. It has a fingerprint reader but it's for logging on not buying stuff. The built in pen also has 2048 levels of pressure.

Also that WiGig dock is available for it. So much more technologically advanced. MacBooks are more fashion advanced. Like beats headphones.

Yeah, I'm probably just biased because I do tech support for a living & deal with infections on a daily basis, haha. A good antivirus & Malwarebytes Live, along with Chrome, is a pretty solid defense these days.

Yup...that X1 has a quality Wacom pen (15-second charge = 100 minutes of usage), WiGiG dock, rotating hinge, "Retina" screen resolution available, up to a 1TB PCIe NVME SSD boot drive, etc. Plus an OLED touchscreen option! And then you look at Apple's little touch strip, starting at $1,799...meh. Again, the only thing really holding me back is the OS, but like you said, it's not as bad as it used to be.

 

[Kaido]

How well does Windows 10 do with high dpi screens these days?

Good & bad. I have a Kangaroo PC on the 43" 4K screen in my kitchen (hey, it was half the price of the cabinet I wanted to put there, lol). At 4K, it does a 300% zoom. Looks pretty decent tho. I zoom Chrome out a bit now, so it's not so jumbo. Some laptop apps can look funny with the scaling, especially if they haven't been updated for Win10. Here's a link to a video of the one I posted in hot deals last month:

https://vid.me/XQmn

Swing by Best Buy or Staples & see if they have any compact 4K or 'Retina' laptops on display that you can play with. imo OSX definitely does a better job with scaling elements to the OS properly, without making everything look ridiculously tiny or else Youtube-style zoomed when blown up. But again, the features...for the same money as you'd spend on a Macbook, you can get some pretty insane hardware on a Windows machine. I really wish Apple was leading the way, but I haven't really seen any innovation since Steve died (RIP), and with the new Macbooks, I'd really rather not carry around adapters for everything. tbh, running my Logitech Anywhere mouse's USB RF dongle off a USB-C leash sounds flat-out annoying. Plus needed an SD reader & all of the other crap I use. Nah man. Nah.

 

[quikah]

Scaling, if you do whole numbers is usually pretty OK (200%, 300%). When you get fractions things can look bad in older programs that haven't been updated. I haven't played with chrome scaling recently, but it has been just broken when I tried it. Anything that is UWP usually looks gorgeous at any scaling (Edge is superb in this regard).

When you have mixed scaling things can get messy. Like if you have one monitor set to 150% and another set to 100%, when you move applications over they don't always scaling correctly.

Decent article on the issues:
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/83964/microsoft-may-never-fix-high-dpi-issues-windows-10

Oh, this is cute:

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Surface-Trade-In/categoryID.69758400

MS senses blood in the water.

 

[Kaido]

Scaling, if you do whole numbers is usually pretty OK (200%, 300%). When you get fractions things can look bad in older programs that haven't been updated. I haven't played with chrome scaling recently, but it has been just broken when I tried it. Anything that is UWP usually looks gorgeous at any scaling (Edge is superb in this regard).

When you have mixed scaling things can get messy. Like if you have one monitor set to 150% and another set to 100%, when you move applications over they don't always scaling correctly.

Decent article on the issues:
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/83964/microsoft-may-never-fix-high-dpi-issues-windows-10

Oh, this is cute:

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Surface-Trade-In/categoryID.69758400

MS senses blood in the water.

I don't understand why they don't just make a scalable UI. Add a separate coprocessor in the modern CPU's for it, so that the primary processor doesn't get bogged down with interface scaling. 8K displays are on the horizon, what are they going to do then??

And yeah...lol @ the trade-in program.

 

[Kaido]

Well this is interesting:

https://www.engadget.com/2016/10/27/new-15-inch-macbook-pro-four-4k-monitors/

The new 15-inch MacBook Pro can push four 4K monitors at once, or two 5K monitors. The 13" can run a single 5K, or a pair of 4K screens.

 

[sxr7171]

Yeah, I'm probably just biased because I do tech support for a living & deal with infections on a daily basis, haha. A good antivirus & Malwarebytes Live, along with Chrome, is a pretty solid defense these days.

Yup...that X1 has a quality Wacom pen (15-second charge = 100 minutes of usage), WiGiG dock, rotating hinge, "Retina" screen resolution available, up to a 1TB PCIe NVME SSD boot drive, etc. Plus an OLED touchscreen option! And then you look at Apple's little touch strip, starting at $1,799...meh. Again, the only thing really holding me back is the OS, but like you said, it's not as bad as it used to be.

It's kind of funny I don't even use Malwarebytes. I think MS has a serious interest in their built in product being up to snuff. It seems to update definitions daily. Also it has automatic sample submission (which I disable) but other people's samples get up there and discovered.

One time when I got a scare I downloaded and used it to learn it found nothing.

I just use Firefox and Adblock plus. But also I don't click on things that I know I shouldn't click on.

I think most problems happen when looking for pirated software or entertainment.

The X1 Yoga is a whole other level imho. Lighter and I know Carbon Fiber reinforced plastic and even magnesium alloy feel "plasticky" but they are so much more durable.

Within warranty they are known to replace any broken plastic parts. With the accidental damage protection ($99 for 2 years) they'll fix it if you drive over it.

It's definitely my choice of next machine and that's not to take away from other very good choices out there from Dell and HP. Heck even Samsung has a very light 13" going for close to $800. In the range of 1.85lbs and magnesium alloy construction. These MacBooks cannot be justified by rationality. The pricing is way out there.

 

[lefenzy]

Prices will drop next year. This is an early adopter fee.

A major selling point of a macbook for me and others is macOS. Other laptops are less appealing because of it.

 

[sxr7171]

Prices will drop next year. This is an early adopter fee.

A major selling point of a macbook for me and others is macOS. Other laptops are less appealing because of it.

I wouldn't agree about MacOS but to each their own. The major selling point for me is good resale values. Apple is not really known to drop MSRP but some resellers offer discounts as time goes by.

If you really must have this there are options. Wait until they show up refurbished. Maybe they will have a few hundred dollars off for Black Friday.

 

[quikah]

I don't understand why they don't just make a scalable UI. Add a separate coprocessor in the modern CPU's for it, so that the primary processor doesn't get bogged down with interface scaling. 8K displays are on the horizon, what are they going to do then??

they have. UWP works great at scaling. The main issue is legacy. Win32 needs to be updated to support the new scaling methods, but they would rather push people to UWP. Regardless, all the legacy apps would need to be updated to support any new scaling APIs.

 

[Eug]

Another tidbit. The new MBP does not support 32 GB RAM.

Good & bad. I have a Kangaroo PC on the 43" 4K screen in my kitchen (hey, it was half the price of the cabinet I wanted to put there, lol). At 4K, it does a 300% zoom. Looks pretty decent tho. I zoom Chrome out a bit now, so it's not so jumbo. Some laptop apps can look funny with the scaling, especially if they haven't been updated for Win10. Here's a link to a video of the one I posted in hot deals last month:

https://vid.me/XQmn

Swing by Best Buy or Staples & see if they have any compact 4K or 'Retina' laptops on display that you can play with. imo OSX definitely does a better job with scaling elements to the OS properly, without making everything look ridiculously tiny or else Youtube-style zoomed when blown up. But again, the features...for the same money as you'd spend on a Macbook, you can get some pretty insane hardware on a Windows machine. I really wish Apple was leading the way, but I haven't really seen any innovation since Steve died (RIP), and with the new Macbooks, I'd really rather not carry around adapters for everything. tbh, running my Logitech Anywhere mouse's USB RF dongle off a USB-C leash sounds flat-out annoying. Plus needed an SD reader & all of the other crap I use. Nah man. Nah.

They still haven't fixed it in Win 10? Lame. I guess I'm sticking with the MacBook then. It has the exact effective 1152x720-like resolution I had been campaigning for in a 12" model since the the 13" unibody MacBook came out.

BTW, hands on looks say that the new MacBook Pro's keyboard is superior to the MacBook's, even though they use similar technology. More travel in the Pro.

 

[Kaido]

they have. UWP works great at scaling. The main issue is legacy. Win32 needs to be updated to support the new scaling methods, but they would rather push people to UWP. Regardless, all the legacy apps would need to be updated to support any new scaling APIs.

Right, referring more to your Thurrott link, which made some excellent points.

 

[Anubis]

Looking at Kaby Lake Y Windows 10 options. What's out there that is decent? Preferably under 1 kg.

Edit:

Found this:

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11638-intel-kabylake/

How well does Windows 10 do with high dpi screens these days?

fine

my laptop runs 3200*1800. my desktop runs 3440*1440. I run no scaling on the desktop and 125% or nothing on the laptop

 

[jaydee]

wait, the 13" Pro has TWO ports? Including charging and display out?! Are you serious? Need to get my wife a new mac, but goddamn it's painful how crippled these things are, and it's getting worse.

So if she want's to plug in power, USB stick and a mouse? Out of ports. Mouse+kb? Sorry, no charging. Display and power? Sorry no USB stick. How the hell do you work with this thing? What the heck is the point of this? The whole side of the PC is empty space, there's nothing there. Why can't you put some ports there?!

And the only alternative is previous gen. A $2k PC with a processor from 2014! great.

You need to upgrade to the $1800 (before tax) model to use the power, external monitor and USB stick simultaneously.

 

[Eug]

fine

my laptop runs 3200*1800. my desktop runs 3440*1440. I run no scaling on the desktop and 125% or nothing on the laptop

That would be completely unreadable for me. That's one reason I hated the MacBook Airs.

 

[Anubis]

That would be completely unreadable for me. That's one reason I hated the MacBook Airs.

on the desktop you wouldn't even notice, its a 34" monitor if that helps. its really no different then reading on a 27" 2560*1440p monitor, mine just wider (21:9)

laptop also runs 1080p with no downside so there is always that.

I'm really just used to the smaller txt, i have run at least 1200p since 2003. I miss my FW900s

This is what things look like on the 34