Apple can lock down its phones, but Microsoft has to open up it's OS's?

[SunnyD]

This notion just struck me today as I was poking around the Android store. (Yes, odd thought)

I'm wondering why it hasn't come to the EU's attention that Apple is getting away with exactly what they're punishing Microsoft for - Anti-competitive behavior. Microsoft MUST present options for web browsers and media players, but Apple gets to lock people's phones down and say what can and can't be put on them?

I wonder when Apple will be getting its "browser ballot."

 

[Pliablemoose]

Already discussed at length, bottom line, Apple is a bit player in all of the sectors it participates in, and is not considered a monopoly, and will likely never be considered one.

Windows Mobile has never been considered a major player BTW, it's been the desktop OS and IE that have been targeted in the anti-competitive cases.

 

[zerogear]

I still think MS should've just said FU to EU and stripped out the web browser and shipped an OS without one.

 

[SunnyD]

I still think MS should've just said FU to EU and stripped out the web browser and shipped an OS without one.

That's what the EU wanted. Unfortunately, it's exactly what MS didn't want.

 

[Qbah]

It's bullshit for me too... but the law is different depending on how much marketshare you have. Apple's a small player, so they can get away with it. I don't like being told what is or isn't good for me but that's the way it works with Apple, unfortunately.

Microsoft can only blame themselves for being successful

 

[Deeko]

I've long found it very ironic that the very thing Microsoft is constantly sued for (bundling things with the OS) was one of the early points in the Mac vs PC commercials - look at all the cool stuff Macs come with! And it all works so seemlessly with the OS! Meanwhile, Microsoft has to offer Windows Live Essentials and whatnot via a download, lest they be attacked for bundling.

Different story for a different subforum, though.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Doesnt Apple have enough marketshare in both the online MP3 and media player markets to be considered a market? And isnt it using its monopolies in either to further its monopoly on the other one? Buy an iPod, you can only use iTunes. Buy a tune from iTunes, you can only play it on an iPod.

 

[TheStu]

Doesnt Apple have enough marketshare in both the online MP3 and media player markets to be considered a market? And isnt it using its monopolies in either to further its monopoly on the other one? Buy an iPod, you can only use iTunes. Buy a tune from iTunes, you can only play it on an iPod.

On OS X you can use iTunes or Songbird, or DoubleTwist to sync your iPod. On Windows there are more options beyond iTunes as well.

In iTunes, the majority of the songs now sold are DRM-free. They are not mp3s, they are AACs, but anything that can play those can play the files.

How about the fact that Zunepass songs (not the purchased ones, the non-purchased ones) can only play on the Zune? Or that PlaysForSure songs could only play on PlaysForSure players? DRM is a fact of life with the media industry.

 

[corkyg]

There is a difference - basically, Apple is hardware and Microsoft is software. Hardware patents and controls are much easier to define in the courts.

 

[TheWart]

I also thought that one of the reasons MS got in trouble was that in the case of Windows, IE was essentially an integral part of the OS, and you couldn't uninstall or even replace it. On OSX you can use alternatives to the bundled software without a problem.

Then, as others have said, OSX and iphoneos marketshare is too small to be a monopolistic force. If you don't like the iPhone, you hae literally thousands of alternatives.

 

[zerocool84]

I also thought that one of the reasons MS got in trouble was that in the case of Windows, IE was essentially an integral part of the OS, and you couldn't uninstall or even replace it. On OSX you can use alternatives to the bundled software without a problem.

Then, as others have said, OSX and iphoneos marketshare is too small to be a monopolistic force. If you don't like the iPhone, you hae literally thousands of alternatives.

And if you don't like IE, there are tons of alternatives as well. I didn't know you couldn't download another web browser and use it on a Windows machine. That's news to me. So Safari on OSX isn't integrated into the OS??? That's news to me as well. I guess they really are so different.

How long did Apple go until you could even get parts for their computers from anyone else other than them?

 

[LikeLinus]

On OS X you can use iTunes or Songbird, or DoubleTwist to sync your iPod. On Windows there are more options beyond iTunes as well.

In iTunes, the majority of the songs now sold are DRM-free. They are not mp3s, they are AACs, but anything that can play those can play the files.

How about the fact that Zunepass songs (not the purchased ones, the non-purchased ones) can only play on the Zune? Or that PlaysForSure songs could only play on PlaysForSure players? DRM is a fact of life with the media industry.

What options for Windows allow you to sync an ipod touch without having to install iTunes? Most of the other packages require you to install iTunes first, but not use it.

Serious question.

 

[SunnyD]

What "legal" option do you have to the App Store though? Because of it, Apple effectively censors software as it sees fit - in fact their arbitrary rule about not allowing apps that effectively duplicate existing functionality seems to be just about one step farther than Microsoft was with IE. Apple simply affords you NO choice.

 

[TheStu]

What options for Windows allow you to sync an ipod touch without having to install iTunes? Most of the other packages require you to install iTunes first, but not use it.

Serious question.

I do not own an iPod Touch nor do I use Windows for syncing, I am not the right source for you answer i fear.

 

[TheStu]

And if you don't like IE, there are tons of alternatives as well. I didn't know you couldn't download another web browser and use it on a Windows machine. That's news to me. So Safari on OSX isn't integrated into the OS??? That's news to me as well. I guess they really are so different.

How long did Apple go until you could even get parts for their computers from anyone else other than them?

I can't tell where you are being sarcastic and where you aren't...

Yes, you can download another browser on Windows.
Yes, IIRC there was was time where you could not remove IE since it was deeply tied to the OS.
No, Safari is not as tied into OS X as IE once was in Windows. Safari is fairly standalone as far as Apple made applications go.

The question of parts is difficult to answer. The first Apple sold IIRC was simply a box of parts, most of which could probably have been duplicated by radioshack. Later versions used industry standard hard drives and memory, though the memory was generally a little touch and go, as earlier Macs were fairly touchy about memory timings and speeds.

Once Apple started using USB in place of ADB, they were able to use almost any mouse, keyboard, printer, or whatever in the market. Webcams IIRC have been and still are a pain.

There are still limitations of course. The current Mac Pros cannot use PC standard GPUs, you either need to flash the firmware, or buy a Mac specific one. However, they are more forgiving with RAM. Optical drives, being slot load on the iMac, Mini, and laptops means that it is not so easy to find replacement parts for those, but you do not have to get them from Apple.

 

[Bateluer]

That's what the EU wanted. Unfortunately, it's exactly what MS didn't want.

Not exactly what the customers wanted either.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

DoubleTwist.

 

[Baasha]

Apple was, is, always will be known as CRAPINTOSH.

Microsoft changed computing forever, and consequently, the world.

There's a big difference in how one is perceived as opposed to the other.

 

[zerocool84]

I can't tell where you are being sarcastic and where you aren't...

Yes, you can download another browser on Windows.
Yes, IIRC there was was time where you could not remove IE since it was deeply tied to the OS.
No, Safari is not as tied into OS X as IE once was in Windows. Safari is fairly standalone as far as Apple made applications go.

The question of parts is difficult to answer. The first Apple sold IIRC was simply a box of parts, most of which could probably have been duplicated by radioshack. Later versions used industry standard hard drives and memory, though the memory was generally a little touch and go, as earlier Macs were fairly touchy about memory timings and speeds.

Once Apple started using USB in place of ADB, they were able to use almost any mouse, keyboard, printer, or whatever in the market. Webcams IIRC have been and still are a pain.

There are still limitations of course. The current Mac Pros cannot use PC standard GPUs, you either need to flash the firmware, or buy a Mac specific one. However, they are more forgiving with RAM. Optical drives, being slot load on the iMac, Mini, and laptops means that it is not so easy to find replacement parts for those, but you do not have to get them from Apple.

Yes Safari isn't tied into the OS as much as IE was but it's still tied in. If you update Safari it updates parts of the OS so they are tied in together. They buried the default browser settings option so it's harder to get to then just in system preferences so people will use Safari more.

 

[TheWart]

Yes Safari isn't tied into the OS as much as IE was but it's still tied in. If you update Safari it updates parts of the OS so they are tied in together. They buried the default browser settings option so it's harder to get to then just in system preferences so people will use Safari more.

Yea, it is really buried:

Choosing a default Web browser other than Safari

1. Open Safari (/Applications).
2. From the Safari menu, choose Preferences.
3. Click the General button.
4. Choose a different browser from the Default Web Browser pop-up menu.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1637

 

[TheStu]

Apple was, is, always will be known as CRAPINTOSH.

Microsoft changed computing forever, and consequently, the world.

There's a big difference in how one is perceived as opposed to the other.

Apple and Microsoft both were instrumental and creating the current computing environment, as were Xerox PARC and IBM. To think otherwise is to be woefully ignorant of history.

And you are right that they are perceived differently, that is how perception works.

 

[TheStu]

Yea, it is really buried:



http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1637

Or just do the same thing as on Windows, use the default browser to download your new browser, install the new browser and when it pops up and says 'X is not currently your default browser would you like to make it so?' you click YES.