Apple A8 Benchmarked

[rtsurfer]

Maybe we see the 64 bit fully utilized first in a Cyclone+ desktop/laptop APU + PCH first? This desktop/laptop class APU with higher drive current/higher leakage xtors than the SOC that is used in the phone and tablets.

Maybe..
But by the time Apple launches starts using SOCs in their Desktops, the rest of the competition in ARM area, a.k.a Qualcomm, Samsung, AMD, Nvidia, etc would have caught up & launched their own 64 Bit processors. Hence, diminishing Apple's performance advantage.

 

[TreVader]

A) Source.? Worked fine on mine the few times I had to deal with it.

B) Practically speaking, Apple's approach to this is like selling a Ferrari with V4. The infrastructure is there (ala 64Bit OS) but without the power (4+ GB of RAM), it useless and can't go faster than the competition.

Actually apple hardware is generally a cut above any of the flagship android phones. Better camera, better color gamut, better brightness. It's a better experience. It's what businesses are picking 10:1 over android.


Why is android the least secure Mobile OS? And if your hardware is so good, why not run iOS on it (or try?). Obviously android overhead is 4x what iOS had because despite half the cores at half the frequency with a third the ram of a note 3 it's still faster. Or is it all those viruses and malware that slows your phones down so much?

 

[Essence_of_War]

The technical points of your argument are irrelevant from a consumers point of view (I.e. Mine). It's all Greek to me man.

They weren't my arguments, they were YOUR arguments. If you want to say the CPU was fast, say the CPU was fast, it was (and still is!). There is no need to hunt for the 64-bit zebra, when there is a fast cpu-horse right in front of you.

 

[Khato]

Thank you for the pointer!

I took a quick look through the Android 4.4 source code and found that the Android graphics library uses libjpeg to decode JPEG images. This is the same library Geekbench 3 uses for its JPEG workloads. Maybe the hardware JPEG acceleration referenced in the article just relates to camera capture?

That's what I'm now wondering as well given that further searching yielded a number of people asking the question of how to use hardware jpeg encoding/decoding, but no answers. Still, it seems a very peculiar statement to have made since image capture should have been using dedicated hardware for jpeg for quite some time, no?

Anyway, I'll now just shake my head and sigh once more at the state of software not using the hardware available to it. Though to be fair it would be a bit more interesting with Android since it'd be up to the individualized version for a certain SoC to provide that support most likely.

 

[cbn]

B) Practically speaking, Apple's approach to this is like selling a Ferrari with V4. The infrastructure is there (ala 64Bit OS) but without the power (4+ GB of RAM), it useless and can't go faster than the competition.

Maybe we see the 64 bit fully utilized first in a Cyclone+ desktop/laptop APU + PCH first? This desktop/laptop class APU with higher drive current/higher leakage xtors than the SOC that is used in the phone and tablets.

Maybe..
But by the time Apple launches starts using SOCs in their Desktops, the rest of the competition in ARM area, a.k.a Qualcomm, Samsung, AMD, Nvidia, etc would have caught up & launched their own 64 Bit processors. Hence, diminishing Apple's performance advantage.

I'm thinking the transition for Apple could happen fairly quickly. Look at Apple TV? That product is so ripe for an overhaul of some type IMO. Make it more like a Mac Mini and things get so much more interesting for iOS.

P.S. Nvidia already has their own 64 bit ARM processor.

 

[rtsurfer]

Actually apple hardware is generally a cut above any of the flagship android phones. Better camera, better color gamut, better brightness. It's a better experience. It's what businesses are picking 10:1 over android.


Why is android the least secure Mobile OS? And if your hardware is so good, why not run iOS on it (or try?). Obviously android overhead is 4x what iOS had because despite half the cores at half the frequency with a third the ram of a note 3 it's still faster. Or is it all those viruses and malware that slows your phones down so much?

First of all congratulations in failing to address & prove your points.:biggrin:

Now,
Better Camera :- Nokia Lumia 1020

Better color gamut, Better brightness :- LG G3.( I don't care about Brightness as long as it isn't way below competitors. Everybody knows the G3 has the best screen out of all phones on market right now.)

Better experience :- Subjective, personally I couldn't use a phone that didn't allow better third party keyboards till now (Cough Cough Swiftkey) & still doesn't have a Full HD screen on their mainstream models.

Businesses picking Apple, is just ignorance based on perceived better value of Apple devices based on marketing.

IOS secure?, funny when the revolutionary fingerprint feature they introduced in their Iphone5 proved to be hackable few days after launch.

The most secure mobile OS right now is BlackBerry.

The myth that Macs & IOS don't have viruses has been debunked several times but, Ignorance is Bliss.

I personally don't like IOS & haven't used it ever so I wouldn't run it on any hardware of mine.
I don't mind people who enjoy using IOS.
I mind it when they claim that its the best & revolutionary.
Sure Apple revolutionized the phone industry a few years back, but currently they are trailing behind everybody else.

The only reason Apple is still as big it is right now is because people still buy it because its Shiny & they think its cool. While in reality, they have hardly any understanding of what they are missing.

The technical points of your argument are irrelevant from a consumers point of view (I.e. Mine). It's all Greek to me man.

 

[Eug]

About 64-Bit Cocoa Touch Apps

The Apple A7 processor supports two distinct instruction sets. The first is the 32-bit ARM instruction set supported by Apple’s previous processors. The second is a brand-new 64-bit ARM architecture. The 64-bit architecture includes support for a vastly larger address space, but that is not the only (or most important) architectural improvement it provides. The 64-bit architecture supports a new and streamlined instruction set that supports twice as many integer and floating-point registers. Apple’s LLVM compiler has been optimized to take full advantage of this new architecture. As a result, 64-bit apps can work with more data at once for improved performance. Apps that extensively use 64-bit integer math or custom NEON operations see even larger performance gains. So, even though 32-bit apps already run faster on the A7 processor than they did on earlier processors, converting apps to 64-bit almost always provides better performance.

I personally don't like IOS & haven't used it ever so I wouldn't run it on any hardware of mine.

Those statements contradict each other.

The only reason Apple is still as big it is right now is because people still buy it because its Shiny & they think its cool. While in reality, they have hardly any understanding of what they are missing.

Heh. I've owned both Android and iOS devices (and in fact still own a Nexus 7) but much prefer the iOS experience. Usually, but not always, more slickly implemented on iOS. This is not just Apple apps, but often 3rd party apps as well.

 

[TreVader]

First of all congratulations in failing to address & prove your points.:biggrin:



Now,

Better Camera :- Nokia Lumia 1020



Better color gamut, Better brightness :- LG G3.



Better experience :- Subjective, personally I couldn't use a phone that didn't allow better third party keyboards till now (Cough Cough Swiftkey) & still doesn't have a Full HD screen on their mainstream models.



Businesses picking Apple, is just ignorance based on perceived better value of Apple devices based on marketing.



IOS secure?, funny when the revolutionary fingerprint feature they introduced in their Iphone5 proved to be hackable few days after launch.



The most secure mobile OS right now is BlackBerry.



The myth that Macs & IOS don't have viruses has been debunked several times but, Ignorance is Bliss.



I personally don't like IOS & haven't used it ever so I wouldn't run it on any hardware of mine.

I don't mind people who enjoy using IOS.

I mind it when they claim that its the best & revolutionary.

Sure Apple revolutionized the phone industry a few years back, but currently they are trailing behind everybody else.



The only reason Apple is still as big it is right now is because people still buy it because its Shiny & they think its cool. While in reality, they have hardly any understanding of what they are missing.

Interesting argument, fellow forum member!

 

[rtsurfer]

I'm thinking the transition for Apple could happen fairly quickly. Look at Apple TV? That product is so ripe for an overhaul of some type IMO. Make it more like a Mac Mini and things get so much more interesting for iOS.

P.S. Nvidia already has their own 64 bit ARM processor.

I mean the ARM SOC still isn't powerful enough to replace Intel processors.
Imagine running Photoshop on a MAC with ARM SOC in it.
CRINGE..

 

[TreVader]

I think A8 is a much better solution than S800

 

[rtsurfer]

Yes I'm sorry I'm not an autistic retard obsessed with specs, or a poor person. That's androids customer base.


You can blah blah blah all you want the fact is people who make decisions rely on intuitive, secure operations. I'm guessing you're not in a leadership position? Yeah

By people you mean, YOU who makes decisions based on his own thoughts ignoring contradicting hard facts.

I am a college student, but I did manage a medium sized Retail store this summer.
Fancy that.
Your perceptions are WRONG, AGAIN.

EDIT:-
Also, I'm done talking to the Wall.
Peace out.

And I also don't want to further contribute to making this an Apple vs Android thread anymore.

EDit 2: Interesting Edit fellow forum member. I'll leave this in place here so people can see what you've done.

 

[cbn]

I mean the ARM SOC still isn't powerful enough to replace Intel processors.
Imagine running Photoshop on a MAC with ARM SOC in it.
CRINGE..

SOC is not a good idea for desktop and laptop.

The processor needs xtors with higher drive current and clockspeed capability than what is used on a phone or tablet.

Furthermore, separating cpu and gpu from pch allows a greater amount of silicon die area to be dedicated to both the cpu and gpu (while still meeting the necessary die size targets).

In a nutshell, I would expect Apple not use a SOC approach for desktop and laptop.

 

[rtsurfer]

SOC is not a good idea for desktop and laptop.

The processor needs xtors with higher drive current and clockspeed capability than what is used on a phone or tablet.

Furthermore, separating cpu and gpu from pch allows a greater amount of silicon die area to be dedicated to both the cpu and gpu (while still meeting the necessary die size targets).

In a nutshell, I would expect Apple not use a SOC approach for desktop and laptop.

Yeh.
I am sorry.
I shouldn't have said SOC.

But I expect that much development to take some time.

Maybe 1~2 more years.

 

[Arachnotronic]

SOC is not a good idea for desktop and laptop.

The processor needs xtors with higher drive current and clockspeed capability than what is used on a phone or tablet.

Furthermore, separating cpu and gpu from pch allows a greater amount of silicon die area to be dedicated to both the cpu and gpu (while still meeting the necessary die size targets).

In a nutshell, I would expect Apple not use a SOC approach for desktop and laptop.

Sounds like an awful lot of extra work that would divert engineering resources from their high ROI mobile chip products.

No, realistically, Apple will continue to use Ax chips for iPhone/iPad, and it'll probably keep using Intel's chips for notebooks and the like.

Remember: Macs aren't high volume enough to justify doing a custom chip for. iPhone/iPad which rake in untold billions in profits are.

 

[cbn]

SOC is not a good idea for desktop and laptop.

The processor needs xtors with higher drive current and clockspeed capability than what is used on a phone or tablet.

Furthermore, separating cpu and gpu from pch allows a greater amount of silicon die area to be dedicated to both the cpu and gpu (while still meeting the necessary die size targets).

In a nutshell, I would expect Apple not use a SOC approach for desktop and laptop.

Sounds like an awful lot of extra work that would divert engineering resources from their high ROI mobile chip products.

No, realistically, Apple will continue to use Ax chips for iPhone/iPad, and it'll probably keep using Intel's chips for notebooks and the like.

Remember: Macs aren't high volume enough to justify doing a custom chip for. iPhone/iPad which rake in untold billions in profits are.

Besides attempting to do a simple cost comparison of a hypothetical Apple custom ARM APU (with high drive current xtors) + PCH vs. Intel's x86 APU + PCH, I believe there will be other gains to be had by Apple.

One of which will be to have complete control of every hardware feature found in their highest end products. That is worth something.

 

[iiiankiii]

My point is apple backed their claims up and I don't think anybody would say ARMv8 is a "gimmick".


The technical points of your argument are irrelevant from a consumers point of view (I.e. Mine). It's all Greek to me man.

Then why are you trying to argue the technical aspect of the phone? Why don't you just say it feels faster and be done with it; instead of stating incorrect facts like file size limitation (which is not true; I can access files over 4gb on android just fine). If it's all Greek to you, don't make claims you nothing about b/c.. you know... it's all Greek to you.

Having said that, I do believe iOS a refined OS that works well with their SoC.

 

[jfpoole]

That's what I'm now wondering as well given that further searching yielded a number of people asking the question of how to use hardware jpeg encoding/decoding, but no answers. Still, it seems a very peculiar statement to have made since image capture should have been using dedicated hardware for jpeg for quite some time, no?

I wonder if the hardware JPEG encoder is built in such a way that it's only available to the camera (i.e., it's a tightly integrated part of the RAW to JPEG pipeline in the camera with no external interface)? That would explain why people are asking about it without much luck.

 

[Rakehellion]

You are arguing semantics. You need 64 bit to run 64bit OS to address >4GB


The same limitation was in XP

Copying files is not the same thing as addressing memory. That's a limitation of the filesystem, not the hardware.

 

[Rakehellion]

Oh please. You guys have been saying that for years. You're paying $650+ for $150 worth of hardware, plain and simple.

You're also paying for billions of dollars of research which no other company has.

 

[Rakehellion]

Isn't that kinda of a bogus reason to overpay for a phone? Because people who buy Apple desktops get the OS for free now.

It isn't free if you have to buy something.

 

[Rakehellion]

First of all congratulations in failing to address & prove your points.:biggrin:

Now,
Better Camera :- Nokia Lumia 1020

Better color gamut, Better brightness :- LG G3.( I don't care about Brightness as long as it isn't way below competitors. Everybody knows the G3 has the best screen out of all phones on market right now.)

That's two different products. The iPhone is for people who want a great screen, camera, battery life, CPU, and operating system all at the same time without having to choose.

The myth that Macs & IOS don't have viruses has been debunked several times but, Ignorance is Bliss.

You be trollin, homeboy! Exactly zero people have said "don't have viruses" in this thread.

I personally don't like IOS & haven't used it ever so I wouldn't run it on any hardware of mine.

You've never used it before but have a lot to say about what it is and isn't. Anandtech just found a new reviewer!

 

[Techhog]

You're also paying for billions of dollars of research which no other company has.

Oh yes, the billions of dollars of research which led to a low-end phone with "new" features that every high-end phone. That level of innovation must have been so expensive.

Seriously, you could have at least said marketing. Then it would be believable.

 

[witeken]

[...]

That's the brief explanation of why BK's quote from last year regarding density is quite easy to believe: "If you take a look at things like transistor density and you compare, pardon the pun, apples-to-apples and you compare, say, the A7 to our Bay Trail, which is a high density 22 nanometer technology, then our transistor density is higher or more dense than the A7 is."

That makes sense; it isn't apples to apples.

But really, this is much ado about nothing. A higher density is in fact worse if you can't appropriately reduce power consumption, which 20nm clearly can't. Regarding cost per transistor, 14nm is clearly much superior because 20nm stays flat compared to 28nm.

 

[TreVader]

By people you mean, YOU who makes decisions based on his own thoughts ignoring contradicting hard facts.

I am a college student, but I did manage a medium sized Retail store this summer.
Fancy that.
Your perceptions are WRONG, AGAIN.

EDIT:-
Also, I'm done talking to the Wall.
Peace out.

And I also don't want to further contribute to making this an Apple vs Android thread anymore.

EDit 2: Interesting Edit fellow forum member. I'll leave this in place here so people can see what you've done.

You are a troll, as pointed out by Raekhelion, and if you want to advertise the fruits of your trolling that's your prerogative. You will not, however, get me to give a crap or spend more than a few seconds responding to you. I have better things to do.

RE ORIGINAL TOPIC:
The 4GB limit IS REAL and it only exists when you transfer to micro SD. That's the only time when android is truly "moving" a file that size anyway. This is a limit of 32bit android and I don't know why you guys can't accept this it's so easy to test. Just try to move a file from your S4 or S5 to microSD and BOOM error.


I don't know the specifics of why this is the case, but I know the same issues existed with XP and FAT32 and disappeared on 64bit machines. Coincidentally, there was an exactly 4GB limit to RAM in 32 bit machines. Why is 4GB such an important number, and does it have anything to do with 32 or 64 bit? I think it does and I think it's misleading to say otherwise.


It would seem to me that A8 is a very conservative effort by apple. I really would like to see GPU benchmarks, I'm sure there will be a review soon. When do NDAs end?

 

[TreVader]

That makes sense; it isn't apples to apples.

But really, this is much ado about nothing. A higher density is in fact worse if you can't appropriately reduce power consumption, which 20nm clearly can't. Regarding cost per transistor, 14nm is clearly much superior because 20nm stays flat compared to 28nm.

I thought that was a very good post (Khato, not you).



Where are you getting that 20nm "clearly" can do anything? Have you benchmarked the iPhone 6? The Apple presentation showed that A8 has reduced power consumption, so much so in fact that with a 4.7" screen at higher resolution it still gets better battery life than the 5S.


I don't know how you managed to take Khato's post (which makes sense) and go from there to claiming you have 20nm on your hands with power consumption numbers. What are you talking about?