Apple A11 is 6 core (2+4)

[Ajay]

One thing that caught my eye during the Apple event was the improvement mentioned regarding the efficiency cores. Going from A10 to A11 Apple mentioned a 70% improvement. When talking about the watch series 3 Apple also mentioned a 70% improvement to the core compared to the previous watch chipset. That got me wondering if they are the same core or at the very least have the same "core" foundation. I could be wrong but could it be that after Apple developed the first watch core that they then used it for the basis of the efficiency cores that are now used in the A-series?

Don't know, that's an interesting theory.

 

[ksec]

One thing that caught my eye during the Apple event was the improvement mentioned regarding the efficiency cores. Going from A10 to A11 Apple mentioned a 70% improvement. When talking about the watch series 3 Apple also mentioned a 70% improvement to the core compared to the previous watch chipset. That got me wondering if they are the same core or at the very least have the same "core" foundation. I could be wrong but could it be that after Apple developed the first watch core that they then used it for the basis of the efficiency cores that are now used in the A-series?

Very Interesting Observation and very much likely so!

1. Geekbench 4 on Different platform isn't that far off, and very likely they have exceeded Intel in IPC.

2. Apple GPU, I was surprised that Apple TV 4K, Homepod, are still using PowerVR. ( The A10X )

3. 2nd Generation Performance Hardware Switch? When all 6 core are now individually addressable, how does that work?

4. If an Apple Mac with Apple CPU can gain an additional $100 profits per Mac on average, that is $2B extra profit per year. However I believe most user are very willing to pay the x86 tax to stay compatible with Windows and older software. I think Apple will need to switch over to AMD in a few product. ( They can unify their GPU uarch by doing so )

 

[Arachnotronic]

Very Interesting Observation and very much likely so!

1. Geekbench 4 on Different platform isn't that far off, and very likely they have exceeded Intel in IPC.

2. Apple GPU, I was surprised that Apple TV 4K, Homepod, are still using PowerVR. ( The A10X )

3. 2nd Generation Performance Hardware Switch? When all 6 core are now individually addressable, how does that work?

4. If an Apple Mac with Apple CPU can gain an additional $100 profits per Mac on average, that is $2B extra profit per year. However I believe most user are very willing to pay the x86 tax to stay compatible with Windows and older software. I think Apple will need to switch over to AMD in a few product. ( They can unify their GPU uarch by doing so )

Apple exceeded Skylake in IPC with the A9 cores. A10 and A11 have only extended the lead.

 

[Eug]

Apple exceeded Skylake in IPC with the A9 cores. A10 and A11 have only extended the lead.

Skylake what? We are talking phone chips after all, not desktop chips.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Skylake what? We are talking phone chips after all, not desktop chips.

The Skylake CPU core.

 

[tempestglen]

Apple has hit the same wall as Intel . Welcome back in reality, where the physics is the same for every company.

Yes, apple is stopped at the same wall, memory access limit? However, A11 consumes less power, that's a problem for intel. Even a mainstream intel macbook pro is around 2.7Ghz, while iphone now is 2.5Ghz.

 

[R0H1T]

Very Interesting Observation and very much likely so!

1. Geekbench 4 on Different platform isn't that far off, and very likely they have exceeded Intel in IPC.

2. Apple GPU, I was surprised that Apple TV 4K, Homepod, are still using PowerVR. ( The A10X )

3. 2nd Generation Performance Hardware Switch? When all 6 core are now individually addressable, how does that work?

4. If an Apple Mac with Apple CPU can gain an additional $100 profits per Mac on average, that is $2B extra profit per year. However I believe most user are very willing to pay the x86 tax to stay compatible with Windows and older software. I think Apple will need to switch over to AMD in a few product. ( They can unify their GPU uarch by doing so )

That's no longer true, it's only a matter of time before MS expands it's ecosystem on ARM(64) ~

Windows 10 S [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTCLOUD_OEM_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,50 GB)



Windows 10 S N [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTCLOUDN_OEM_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,22 GB)


Windows 10 Single Language [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTSINGLELANGUAGE_OEM_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,49 GB)


Windows 10 Core [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTCORE_OEMRET_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,51 GB)


Windows 10 Core N [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTCOREN_OEMRET_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,22 GB)


Windows 10 Education [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTEDUCATION_RET_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,49 GB)


Windows 10 Education N [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTEDUCATIONN_RET_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,22 GB)


Windows 10 Pro [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTPRO_OEMRET_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,52 GB)


Windows 10 Pro N [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTPRON_OEMRET_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,22 GB)


Windows 10 Enterprise [ARM64] (en-US)
16353.1000.170825-1423.RS_PRERELEASE_CLIENTENTERPRISE_VOL_ARM64FRE_EN-US.ISO (3,51 GB)

 

[Eug]

The Skylake CPU core.

Of course, but what variant? As already mentioned, Apple doesn't make desktop A11 Bionic chips for example.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

Heh, now 6 CPU cores even in iPhone.

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between ARM and x86 again? Do x86 CPUs have better performance? If there was hypothetical Cinebench for ARM CPUs, how would it fare? Is it even possible to say?

The ISA does not determine performance -- it can help or it can hurt, but in general other things like the microarchitecture and the process matter more. The main thing the ISA does is it determines which set of pre-compiled software you will be able to run.

The Apple core design started from point with relatively low performance and power, and they have slowly edged the design up towards more performance. In contrast, Intel started from cores that used very much power and had much more performance, and have slowly edged the design towards lower power. Both still have a power envelope where they are clearly the best, but the difference between them seems to shrink on every release...

 

[Arachnotronic]

Of course, but what variant? As already mentioned, Apple doesn't make desktop A11 Bionic chips for example.

The same core is used across Intel's client product stack.

 

[teejee]

Of course, but what variant? As already mentioned, Apple doesn't make desktop A11 Bionic chips for example.

IPC is the same for all Skylake SKU's

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

[Eug]

IPC is the same for all Skylake SKU's

Are you factoring in HT as well? How are you adjusting for the number of cores?

The main point here though is Apple is targeting a different class of devices.

 

[Glo.]

What. The. F....

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/a11-bionic-chip-geekbench-scores/

 

[Arachnotronic]

What. The. F....

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/a11-bionic-chip-geekbench-scores/

Beastly chip

 

[Eug]

What. The. F....

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/a11-bionic-chip-geekbench-scores/

That's in line with previous benches.

Interesting that it's running iOS 11.1 BTW.

 

[Qwertilot]

I'm almost as interested in that Apple designed iGPU - even if it marketing, being able to claim the ability to match the A10's iGPU at half the power draw seems profoundly impressive.

Since we're doing Intel comparisons, I presume this aspect is a truly one sided Apple win?

 

[Mopetar]

I'm almost as interested in that Apple designed iGPU - even if it marketing, being able to claim the ability to match the A10's iGPU at half the power draw seems profoundly impressive.

Some of that is going to be from fab process improvements, but I don't think it's too surprising. I would imagine Apple has been working on GPUs for years in the background. We're only hearing about it now and seeing them in action because they got better than what they could buy from a third party and the most important patents have expired.

 

[jpiniero]

What I'd like to know is if Apple really did remove the 32-bit ARM hardware in the chip. iOS 11 now requires apps to be 64-bit only so they don't really need it.

 

[Arachnotronic]

What I'd like to know is if Apple really did remove the 32-bit ARM hardware in the chip. iOS 11 now requires apps to be 64-bit only so they don't really need it.

They did.

 

[Eug]

They did.

All 32-bit vestiges are now gone? That would make sense but... Link?

If so, they really planned well, and timed things perfectly. 64-bit was only introduced in 2013, but then they completely killed off 32-bit in iOS 11 in 2017. No more iPhone 5 support or old app support (which is probably a good thing).

 

[Arachnotronic]

All 32-bit vestiges are now gone? That would make sense but... Link?

If so, they really planned well, and timed things perfectly. 64-bit was only introduced in 2013, but then they completely killed off 32-bit in iOS 11 in 2017. No more iPhone 5 support or old app support (which is probably a good thing).

The change in iOS 11 (no 32-bit app support) was done because Apple was planning to release the ARM64-only A11 Bionic chip. Lack of ARM32 support basically allows Apple to cut down on validation time, simplify the decoder (improves power/area efficiency), and basically redirect resources to new, performance-enhancing features.

It was the right move.

 

[Eug]

The change in iOS 11 (no 32-bit app support) was done because Apple was planning to release the ARM64-only A11 Bionic chip. Lack of ARM32 support basically allows Apple to cut down on validation time, simplify the decoder (improves power/area efficiency), and basically redirect resources to new, performance-enhancing features.

It was the right move.

Would this have any impact on the decision to drop Imagine this year? The original rumour was that they were going to drop Imagine's GPU with A12 in 2018, but maybe the rumour mongers just got the date wrong.

BTW, my mother-in-law timed her iPhone 5 demise almost perfectly. Just a couple of months ago, she killed her iPhone 5 with water, so we picked her up a used iPhone 5S. I insisted on the 5S over a much cheaper 5. She's going to be pleased getting my wife's HEIC + HEVC Live Photos on iOS 11. On 32-bit iPhones, if someone tries to send them a HEIC + HEVC Live Photo, they will receive just a JPEG. No motion video at all.

Bye, bye 32-bit! It's been nice knowin' ya!

 

[beginner99]

They're wasting resources by developing things for two platforms.

Except most software Mac people use doesn't run on iOS and ARM. From office to Photoshop. And these software actually uses floating point performance in which AXX is just way behind.

 

[thunng8]

Except most software Mac people use doesn't run on iOS and ARM. From office to Photoshop. And these software actually uses floating point performance in which AXX is just way behind.

Umm.. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I have a 2017 iPad Pro running the a10x chip and a 2015 13" MacBook Pro (Broadwell)

No - there is no full photoshop on iOS but there is full Affinity photo and almost feature complete Adobe Lightroom.

The iPad Pro is much faster running Lightroom than the MacBook Pro. The difference was very noticeable. I was very surprised at the large performance difference.

Same for Affinity photo (although the difference isn't as big). The iPad Pro is noticeably faster.

 

[beginner99]

Umm.. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I have a 2017 iPad Pro running the a10x chip and a 2015 13" MacBook Pro (Broadwell)

No - there is no full photoshop on iOS but there is full Affinity photo and almost feature complete Adobe Lightroom.

The iPad Pro is much faster running Lightroom than the MacBook Pro. The difference was very noticeable. I was very surprised at the large performance difference.

Same for Affinity photo (although the difference isn't as big). The iPad Pro is noticeably faster.

So know we are from comparing same benchmark on different platforms to different applications on different platforms.

And know show me these mac types from marketing doing their work on Lightroom. At that point you can just fire them because they will leave on their own.