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Apple A11 Bionic performance

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
136
Apple A11 Performance Review with the iPhone 8 Plus: Taking on Desktop?

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Apple-A11-Performance-Review-iPhone-8-Plus-Taking-Desktop

"The fastest smartphone CPU even beats a current-gen Intel mobile part (in Geekbench, anyhow). The A11 Bionic is slightly higher in single-threaded performance, with the large multi-threaded advantage clearly demonstrating all six cores at work (compared to the four threads of the Core i5)."

"The A11 Bionic provides significantly higher graphics performance to edge out the i5-7300U (Intel HD Graphics 620) in the overall score, though the physics test shows a clear advantage from Intel. The Snapdragon 835 lags far behind in all categories here. Clearly a new standard for mobile platforms has been set by Apple, and it will be interesting to see how the industry responds"

Apple's chip design prowess is outstanding. Its no surprise that Apple is looking to move its Macbook lineup to their custom A series. Intel simply cannot keep with this juggernaut.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Apple-A-semiconductor-superpower-in-the-making?page=2

The big winner here is TSMC when Apple moves Macbooks to the custom A series chips sometime in the next 2 years.

The Android competition like Snapdragon 835 is left eating the dust in CPU performance while it holds up much better in GPU performance against the A11.
 
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pjmssn

Member
Aug 17, 2017
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This is fascinating, I really like seeing this level of performance in a mobile device, and I hope the performance gap between smartphones and laptop will keep decreasing. I also hope Snapdragon processors will catch up as I am not an Apple person at all.
I look forward to running large finite element analysis on my smartphone in the future (which I already do for small problems using onelab on Android).
Maybe I need to switch to an iphone and get the A11 experience...
 

R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
2,567
142
106
Apple A11 Performance Review with the iPhone 8 Plus: Taking on Desktop?

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Apple-A11-Performance-Review-iPhone-8-Plus-Taking-Desktop

"The fastest smartphone CPU even beats a current-gen Intel mobile part (in Geekbench, anyhow). The A11 Bionic is slightly higher in single-threaded performance, with the large multi-threaded advantage clearly demonstrating all six cores at work (compared to the four threads of the Core i5)."

"The A11 Bionic provides significantly higher graphics performance to edge out the i5-7300U (Intel HD Graphics 620) in the overall score, though the physics test shows a clear advantage from Intel. The Snapdragon 835 lags far behind in all categories here. Clearly a new standard for mobile platforms has been set by Apple, and it will be interesting to see how the industry responds"

Apple's chip design prowess is outstanding. Its no surprise that Apple is looking to move its Macbook lineup to their custom A series. Intel simply cannot keep with this juggernaut.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Apple-A-semiconductor-superpower-in-the-making?page=2

The big winner here is TSMC when Apple moves Macbooks to the custom A series chips sometime in the next 2 years.

The Android competition like Snapdragon 835 is left eating the dust in CPU performance while it holds up much better in GPU performance against the A11.
I though they were only going for processors, quite clear to some of us quite a while back, but apparently not :eek:

Apple is gonna be a totally different beast a decade from now, if they haven't already morphed into a car company by then, I expect Apple to be a tech titan like no other probably only matched by IBM at it's peak!
 
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Bouowmx

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2016
1,089
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I am curious: why does ARM avoid developing a fast architecture like Apple's? Fewer-and-faster, instead of 8 'slow' cores, ex. 4 Cortex-A73 + 4 Cortex-A53. Or is Apple A6's introduction in 2012 still too soon?
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
2,241
2,665
106
I am curious: why does ARM avoid developing a fast architecture like Apple's? Fewer-and-faster, instead of 8 'slow' cores, ex. 4 Cortex-A73 + 4 Cortex-A53. Or is Apple A6's introduction in 2012 still too soon?
ARM essentially only designs the IPs. How all of those are combined in the eventual chips is fully up to their licensees (one of which Apple still is).
 

Tuna-Fish

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2011
1,052
630
136
I am curious: why does ARM avoid developing a fast architecture like Apple's? Fewer-and-faster, instead of 8 'slow' cores, ex. 4 Cortex-A73 + 4 Cortex-A53. Or is Apple A6's introduction in 2012 still too soon?
Because it's really hard, you need a very large world-class design team and you need to put billions into it during a period of ~5 years before you even see if the result is any good. ARM knows their market, and will make steady profits from their own cores in their niche, and will even make some money out of the ISA license from Apple. Why would they bet so much money on making a new design?
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,263
694
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Keep in mind that the i5 obliterates the A11 in the 3DMark physics test.

Which isn't to say that result is more correct or authoritative than Geekbench, it almost certainly isn't, but that you can only infer so much from the limited number of benchmarks that exist to compare x86 processors against iDevices.
 
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Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
2,158
406
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I am curious: why does ARM avoid developing a fast architecture like Apple's? Fewer-and-faster, instead of 8 'slow' cores, ex. 4 Cortex-A73 + 4 Cortex-A53. Or is Apple A6's introduction in 2012 still too soon?
Because the volume for fast and expensive cores is much smaller. See the number of SoC and phones with only tiny A53's in them.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,676
500
126
This is why I wonder why we even use separate computers for basic work. Why is it that I can't just dock my iPhone into an iCase and use it like a computer. Now, I know this isn't new as ASUS did it years ago with the PadFone, and we have features that try to mimic this like Microsoft's Continuum. However, there's usually some sort of drawback. I'd be interested to see Apple's take on it as they usually focus heavily on polish.

Keep in mind that the i5 obliterates the A11 in the 3DMark physics test.

Which isn't to say that result is more correct or authoritative than Geekbench, it almost certainly isn't, but that you can only infer so much from the limited number of benchmarks that exist to compare x86 processors against iDevices.
If I remember correctly, Apple's SoCs have always had very high performance compared to other SoCs... except for physics tests. In other words, it has sort of always been their weakness.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,250
1,839
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Keep in mind that the i5 obliterates the A11 in the 3DMark physics test.
Pre-A8 Intel used to boast their expensive Core-based Tablets would be 2x faster than then-current iPads using the same benchmarks that show massive lead on the A11 Bionic. I think at this point its pretty conclusive Apple has a far, far better design than Intel chips.

If Intel loses Apple deal, the initial financial impact might be small, but the psychological impact would be not. As Ashraf argues, there's no point switching if their chips are roughly on par with Intel ones. Switching to their own chips imply they believe they can do a far better job than Intel.

Beginning of the end of x86. Well, maybe the beginning was with the original iPhone.
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,175
1,731
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Do we know the actual A11 clock speed yet? its beating a 7300U(i was looking at surface pro) across the board in single thread sub tests.

Beginning of the end of x86. Well, maybe the beginning was with the original iPhone.
Thats a bit over the top, a long way to go on all fronts.

I also cant find any scores on geekbench browser for A11 with 4600 int score, all of them are ~4300
 
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StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,533
449
126
This is why I wonder why we even use separate computers for basic work. Why is it that I can't just dock my iPhone into an iCase and use it like a computer. Now, I know this isn't new as ASUS did it years ago with the PadFone, and we have features that try to mimic this like Microsoft's Continuum. However, there's usually some sort of drawback. I'd be interested to see Apple's take on it as they usually focus heavily on polish.



If I remember correctly, Apple's SoCs have always had very high performance compared to other SoCs... except for physics tests. In other words, it has sort of always been their weakness.
This is where Microsoft have really dropped the ball. They had a golden opportunity to do this with Windows 8.1/10 and have failed to really do it. Contniuum is from all reports limited and buggy.

That was their chance to get back into the mobile game and they blew it.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
739
337
106
Every time Apple releases their new AXX CPU it gets this attention and I always ask is there something else than geekbench?
Never got an answer.

Video editing bench? excel calculation? Large word or pdf work?

Cinebench?

Can it run crysis? :)
 

thunng8

Member
Jan 8, 2013
135
28
101
Every time Apple releases their new AXX CPU it gets this attention and I always ask is there something else than geekbench?
Never got an answer.

Video editing bench? excel calculation? Large word or pdf work?

Cinebench?

Can it run crysis? :)
Well I know that the a10x in my iPad Pro is much faster in Adobe Lightroom compared to the i5 broadwell in the 2015 MacBook Pro (about 1.3-1.5x in raw export and more than that in applying/previewing filters)

It is also much faster in exporting edited 4K video. About 3x faster. But I believe the video export is bound by the video encode dsp inside the a10x not the cpu.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
Every time Apple releases their new AXX CPU it gets this attention and I always ask is there something else than geekbench?
Never got an answer.

Video editing bench? excel calculation? Large word or pdf work?

Cinebench?

Can it run crysis? :)
It's hard to do good cross platform comparisons, but Geekbench 4 is pretty much as good as it's going to get for quick, accessible CPU comparisons.

Apple's CPUs are extremely good.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
Apple A11 Performance Review with the iPhone 8 Plus: Taking on Desktop?

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Apple-A11-Performance-Review-iPhone-8-Plus-Taking-Desktop

"The fastest smartphone CPU even beats a current-gen Intel mobile part (in Geekbench, anyhow). The A11 Bionic is slightly higher in single-threaded performance, with the large multi-threaded advantage clearly demonstrating all six cores at work (compared to the four threads of the Core i5)."

"The A11 Bionic provides significantly higher graphics performance to edge out the i5-7300U (Intel HD Graphics 620) in the overall score, though the physics test shows a clear advantage from Intel. The Snapdragon 835 lags far behind in all categories here. Clearly a new standard for mobile platforms has been set by Apple, and it will be interesting to see how the industry responds"

Apple's chip design prowess is outstanding. Its no surprise that Apple is looking to move its Macbook lineup to their custom A series. Intel simply cannot keep with this juggernaut.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Apple-A-semiconductor-superpower-in-the-making?page=2

The big winner here is TSMC when Apple moves Macbooks to the custom A series chips sometime in the next 2 years.

The Android competition like Snapdragon 835 is left eating the dust in CPU performance while it holds up much better in GPU performance against the A11.
It's not even just Geekbench where Apple's CPUs shine. I think SoftMachines published a comparison of the A9X with Skylake in SPEC2k6, and even then A9X compared very favorably with Skylake in terms of perf/watt. Here is the chart:



Both Intel and Apple CPUs have gotten more power efficient, but Intel's efficiency has come mainly from process/implementation enhancements while Apple's has come from process improvements as well as better architecture.

Apple really is moving at an incredible rate.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
It is also much faster in exporting edited 4K video. About 3x faster. But I believe the video export is bound by the video encode dsp inside the a10x not the cpu.
SoCs aren't just CPUs -- all that matters to the average consumer is what the device they buy delivers.

One of the advantages Apple has is that it can build specialized blocks to suit its needs and because it controls the OS, it can develop APIs to expose that functionality, quickly move first-party applications to take advantage of that hardware via those APIs, and then app developers -- looking to not be left behind by other app developers -- will quickly adopt these technologies to give their apps every benefit that they can get in a very crowded app marketplace.

Apple's platform control on iOS, coupled with the sheer scale of the iOS app economy, is quite a unique and wonderful advantage.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
Apple is gonna be a totally different beast a decade from now, if they haven't already morphed into a car company by then, I expect Apple to be a tech titan like no other probably only matched by IBM at it's peak!
Apple today is a far more successful company than IBM ever was.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,533
449
126
They make very impressive CPU's, no one can deny that. I am not a fan of Apple, I don't really like a lot of their business practices (dongles for dongles) but no denying they know how to make a good chip. Those new Ipad Pros have amazing performance.


I have no idea how well the A11 or A10X scales, but imagine a 95W desktop class CPU of that.
 

majord

Senior member
Jul 26, 2015
353
328
136
Do we know the actual A11 clock speed yet? its beating a 7300U(i was looking at surface pro) across the board in single thread sub tests.


Thats a bit over the top, a long way to go on all fronts.

I also cant find any scores on geekbench browser for A11 with 4600 int score, all of them are ~4300

^^^^

I think people are putting a bit much blind faith in these Single core scores, and bit to much of an assumption that they're achieved @ 2.3Ghz or what ever the listed clockspeed is.

If the A11 is boosting into the high 2Ghz - low 3Ghz range for short periods, possibly even exceeding 'TDP' on these very bursty workloads that GB presents, then these ST scores are more 'explainable' and far less mind blowing.

Don't get me wrong, even if this is the case, it's still top tier stuff, but some people are getting a little carried away. If AMD can put as bigger fire up Intel's rear end as they have with Zen , why wouldn't Apple be able to do that and more.. especially on an in inherently more efficent ARM based, and mobile-focused SoC.

I'll wait to see actual real time core clockspeeds and instantaneous power consumption figures, before being blown away.

The comparison to The other ARM players is more interesting, and is really starting to show the shortfalls.. Samsung's in-house CPU architecture has really missed the mark IMO.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
739
337
106
I am going to try the power of the A9 chip in my wife's iPhone SE with excel

A9 has the GB4 score around- single 2550, multi 4450 points

I will try to reduce the memory usage of my CFD pre-calculation excel files. So it uses like 1GB of memory (measured by windows task manager). I will set the excel file for manual calculation

Test systems:

My Surface pro 4- core i5 6300u 2c/4t
My desktop pre-calculation pc- core i5-6600k @4,4GHz with 2666MHz DDR4
IPhone SE

I will post the results when it's done...

It should give an insight of the power of A11 chip
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
739
337
106
It's hard to do good cross platform comparisons, but Geekbench 4 is pretty much as good as it's going to get for quick, accessible CPU comparisons.

Apple's CPUs are extremely good.
I can only say it's true. I have an Ipad 4 (retina, a6x) which has score in gb4 820 single and 1360 multi and an honor 7 phone which has 780 single and 2200 multi core score in GB4

so the honor 7 should be faster, but it is not

web browsing on the a6x is much faster than on the kirin 935

IMO it is not only about apple CPUs, but also with the direct optimization of iOS for the hardware
 

JoeRambo

Senior member
Jun 13, 2013
960
724
136
I can only say it's true. I have an Ipad 4 (retina, a6x) which has score in gb4 820 single and 1360 multi and an honor 7 phone which has 780 single and 2200 multi core score in GB4
Apple benefits from tight integration with OS, that's for sure. But cross platform benchmarks have a benefit of measurable workload that is easier to compare than subjective things like UI smoothness / web browsing experience.

And those GB4 numbers are eye watering. Everyone from Intel+MS to Google and friends should be worried. With such perf and efficiency Apple could move into selling some very interesting devices.
 
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