Apple’s iPhone Is Closing In on Samsung Smartphone Sales

[poofyhairguy]

O
Yes, you can kinda do the same thing by installing the Google app on your iPhone, but it doesn't work as well or have as much functionality.

How doesn't it? The iOS Google App works just like Google Now does on my iPad. Even OK Google works.

 

[Mopetar]

Apple is gonna make bank when all these people are pushed to upgrade in two years by an iOS update.

I don't know about that. It seems like we're reaching the point where we've run out of features and if anything the OS should be made leaner. A lot of the most recent Android releases have been far less about features and far more about big performance improvements from tightening up the existing code.

Also, I think a lot of people who buy Apple products are not the typical tech consumer that upgrade a 2-year (or less) cycle. I know someone who still has a 4S that he's using because he's not a big gadget person who always wants the latest and greatest.

Apple still managed to price it much higher than the competition's 7" tablets.

That's what they've always done historically so I don't see why some people are so surprised. Given the result from China in this last quarter, I think it becomes even more obvious that Apple neither needs to or has any interest in releasing products at lower price points. We may not even see a 6C going forward.

But that is not where the world has gone. People want touch. People want function.

They don't want to screw around with files and mice.

I don't know if it's want so much as touch is far more simplistic and a lot of people would just get lost if they had to deal with a typical PC file manager. The limited walled garden approach isn't for everyone, but there are clearly some people who are better off there.

 

[StrangerGuy]

That is true.

What Samsung does do right (in my eyes at least) however is to release at least one flagship phone pretty much fully maxed out every year in the Note series. I was sort of hoping Apple would go the same route with the 6+ line of phones. Even if it comes at a premium it would be neat to see a fully decked out iPhone. Then again, that might work against them I suppose. My Note 2 is still plenty fast enough for me, so I haven't felt the need to upgrade. That isn't the name of the game.

There's is only so much they can win the specs war until when even the lowest end of the market has "good enough specs" for the majority of users at a bargain bin prices. Now they are merely a vertically-integrated phone assembler with no unique ecosystem to differentiate from the Android competition, and far less effective branding power than Apple.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I don't know about that. It seems like we're reaching the point where we've run out of features and if anything the OS should be made leaner. A lot of the most recent Android releases have been far less about features and far more about big performance improvements from tightening up the existing code.

Even if Apple finds a way to keep OS ram use low there are already some developers that wish for 2GB in an iPhone. As soon as we have that they will start developing for it, and all those 1GB 64bit iPhones will be a casualty of progress when the apps auto-update and turn into slugs.

Also, I think a lot of people who buy Apple products are not the typical tech consumer that upgrade a 2-year (or less) cycle.

I know someone who still has a 4S that he's using because he's not a big gadget person who always wants the latest and greatest.

I would argue that the power and RAM per pixel in the 4S is still competitive with current offerings. But that is more a problem with the current offerings, as they took a step back in power-per-pixel from the iPhone 5S.

 

[dawheat]

After getting an iPad recently I 100% disagree. Android has gotten to the point it is very functional OS for me. With mouse support, great USB support, great file managers with network support, Office support, emulation support, etc. what you get with a non-rooted Android phone/tablet functionality wise is very close to a real OS like OSX or Ubuntu. iOS feels like a toy OS in comparison because it has no decent file management even if you jailbreak (I would pay $50 to get the free Es File Explorer on there), no mouse support, and the fake multi-tasking outright sucks. The only functional advantage for me over Android is that I can use a Wiimote with it, but only when I completely blow away the iOS bluetooth stack and replace it.

I love the iPad hardware and I would pay $100 extra for it to run Android because iOS is so non functional for any person who actually knows how to use a computer and doesn't need a compute appliance. I have basically accepted this thing will be a glorified web browser and game console because even with jailbreak what I can do is so limited. I understand that for 99% of people iOS is just as good or ever better because it has some fitness or social network app they like, but to say on a nerdy forum that there is very little Android can do that iOS can't is simply wrong.

I probably should have caveated my statement as "for the vast majority of people". But even so, specifically for phones, I'm curious about your reasons.

- I assume mouse support is in regards to tablets, I don't see the need in phones
- USB support - is this for media? I've heard other Android users bring this up in the past, but I've personally never found much need for this. At home, I can stream everything onto my phone/tablet from my NAS. Outside of home, I'd almost never carry around a USB drive. There's very little I can't carry on internal storage and I'm not sure how functionality it is to have a cable/drive attached to the bottom of my phone.
- File manager support - this is somewhat useful, but what's the must-have use case for you? I could easily get away with never using a file manager on my Android phone (except for editing build.prop which most users wouldn't do).
- Office support - isn't MS office available on both platforms now?
- Emulation support - fair enough if you need this. I've heard it's hard to do on iOS without having a jailbroken phone.

 

[poofyhairguy]

- I assume mouse support is in regards to tablets, I don't see the need in phones

It is nice when you hook up the phone to a TV via MHL. I have a bluetooth mouse which has that job exclusively.

- USB support - is this for media?

For everything!

I have a 128GB USB exFAT drive that I fill with HD movies when we go on vacation. My wife just plugs it into her Note 4 via OTG and she has entertainment while traveling or at night when the activities are over. I have a pile a console controllers spanning the Atari to the Gamecube. Each has a USB adaptor and works perfectly in Android emulators. I have a USB ethernet dongle that works great on Android. It allows me to troubleshoot a network without wifi (which is nice when you are configuring wifi). This alone killed my netbook as a needed companion when I do tech work. I use USB on Android set top boxes for IR controls. I would love it the Apple TV would take a real remote and not the just the Jitterbug of remotes.

I could go on, but suffice to say that USB support is huge for me.

- File manager support - this is somewhat useful, but what's the must-have use case for you?

Managing the files on my server and copying them to the iPad if needed. Like I wanted to copy over some of my ROMs and comics the other day and it was a huge pain. I could do it in 10 seconds via ES File Explorer on Android.

Also I use the file manager combined with the USB support to download things on the go. I can't tell you how many times I have been in the field and I just needed one driver or one small app for a system not connected to the internet. Before I had to hunt down a compute with internet. Now I download it on my phone via LTE anywhere and copy it over via file manager. It has killed a lot of my laptop usage which means one less thing to carry.

- Office support - isn't MS office available on both platforms now?

Yeah, that is my point.

Android has almost always had these advantages. Problem was that was it all it had in say 2011- people HAD TO play emulators because native games were lacking.

But in 2015 Android almost has app parity to iOS, so the differences in functionality that have been there from the start are now the differences between the two, in Android's favor.

 

[Sweepr]

My main problem with Apple right now is the 1GB RAM on iPhone 6 and iPad mini 3. Since the transition to 64-bit, there's less usable RAM (the OS has 32bit modules loaded simultaneously with 64bit modules). For users with my habits, 1GB is just awful. For users with different habits, it's just fine...

That said, 64-bit is another thing Apple did that caught other SoC makers by surprise.

Personally, an iPhone 5/5c performs better for my web browsing habits...but I need the bigger screen of the 6 Plus. Can't wait for the next product cycle since it's overdue for a RAM capacity increase...

Agreed. I've got an iPad mini 2 (replaced my older 1st gen iPad mini) and I can't stand the constant page reloads @ Safari. A7 screams for more RAM, I can only imagine it's worse with the iPhone 6 (and A8). I really like the larger screen an iPad provides but lately I've been using the Galaxy Note 4 far more than the tablet, a lot less page refreshes + real multitasking. Exynos SoC and the gorgeous OLED screen also help.

 

[Ichinisan]

... I would love it the Apple TV would take a real remote and not the just the Jitterbug of remotes.

It does! In the Apple TV's settings, you can learn functions from any other remote you want.

Grab a remote that doesn't control your TV or other components and program it for the Apple TV.

I also had no problem at all recording functions from the standard Apple TV remote onto my Philips Prestigo learning remote.

Then you have the iOS "Remote" app (free, official, published by Apple).

Then you can also AirPlay from iTunes on a PC. Even Android devices can AirPlay to the Apple TV.

It seems there's no shortage of remote control options...

 

[Ichinisan]

Managing the files on my server and copying them to the iPad if needed. Like I wanted to copy over some of my ROMs and comics the other day and it was a huge pain. I could do it in 10 seconds via ES File Explorer on Android.

Also I use the file manager combined with the USB support to download things on the go. I can't tell you how many times I have been in the field and I just needed one driver or one small app for a system not connected to the internet. Before I had to hunt down a compute with internet. Now I download it on my phone via LTE anywhere and copy it over via file manager. It has killed a lot of my laptop usage which means one less thing to carry.

It sounds like your device is jailbroken. iFile doesn't get the job done?

 

[poofyhairguy]

iFile doesn't get the job done?

No, unless I am doing it wrong. From the settings there are no Windows share (or even AFP share) options. It will connect to Dropbox and all this cloud stuff, but can't browse my NAS. Honestly I don't even like the iFile interface. The best jailbreak file manager I have found is Filza, I like it a lot better on the iPad than iFile. But it too can't touch a SMB share.

The funny thing is that there are apps on the non-jailbreak side that can browse a SMB share. FHub can go through my shares and even download the files. But because it is non-jailbreak it only downloads the files to its little sandbox, so I have to go dig the file out with Filza after I downloaded it and stick it in the universal documents folder for any other app to see/use the file. It is a huge pain. Also the fact that FHub or any app like it (such as Filebrowser) can't download folders makes it impossible to copy a lot of things over quickly. Hence my issue, and why I would give my entire Nexus 7 2013 just to get Android's ES File Explorer (or Linux's Nautilus, or Window's File Explorer, or OSX's Finder,etc.) on my iPad. File management is one of my biggest regular compute tasks at home.

What I have been doing to get content on there is what I did for the iPad 2 way back in 2011- use fugu and SSH to force files over. But jeez I hoped in three years Apple would have opened up the options or at the very least the jailbreak guys would make a product worth buying. It was a big letdown for me.

Thank for the tip on the Apple remote! I am going to try that with my old Crystal HD AppleTV.

 

[Anon_lawyer]

So that somehow means iDevice performance is NOT pushing the competition to leapfrog each other with each product cycle? Another example: No other manufacturer even attempted to make a high DPI display until Apple did it.

That's not really true. The OG Droid was released with an 480x854 screen back when the Iphone 3gs was still 320x480. It was about 9 months later that the Iphone 4 came out with a high DPI screen.

 

[Commodus]

That's not really true. The OG Droid was released with an 480x854 screen back when the Iphone 3gs was still 320x480. It was about 9 months later that the Iphone 4 came out with a high DPI screen.

It's sort of true. There were high-res Android phones before the iPhone 4, to be sure, but the whole point was that it was (for the time) mind-blowingly sharp, and had the spruced-up interface to match. In the long run, it was really a case of Apple leaping from "somewhat behind" to "somewhat ahead," and it took a while for that kind of pixel density to show up elsewhere.

At any rate, we're at that point where you're seeing diminishing returns for screen resolution. So far, the Quad HD phones haven't made a truly convincing case... they're nice, but not if you sacrifice battery life and (in some cases) brightness in the process.

 

[Mopetar]

Even if Apple finds a way to keep OS ram use low there are already some developers that wish for 2GB in an iPhone. As soon as we have that they will start developing for it, and all those 1GB 64bit iPhones will be a casualty of progress when the apps auto-update and turn into slugs.

Outside of some games, what actually needs that much RAM on a phone? Apple has had their productivity apps out for ages and they've been fine with only 512 MB or 1 GB or RAM. There aren't even terribly many desktop apps that use that absolutely need 2 GB.

Probably the biggest difference that 2 GB makes for most users is having several tabs open in a web browser without needing to reload them. Beyond that, because iOS doesn't have unrestricted multitasking like Android does, more memory just means not needing to completely reload apps as much.

 

[Ichinisan]

Outside of some games, what actually needs that much RAM on a phone?

The #%^* web browser.

Probably the biggest difference that 2 GB makes for most users is having several tabs open in a web browser without needing to reload them. Beyond that, because iOS doesn't have unrestricted multitasking like Android does, more memory just means not needing to completely reload apps as much.

The browser definitely needs it...badly. I'm one of those people who keeps a dozen + tabs open in hopes that I'll have time to get back to them someday. I wanna keep those back buffers intact too.

 

[Mopetar]

The #%^* web browser.

But what developers are making web browsers?

The person I was responding to was talking about developers wanting 2 GB.

Maybe if the rumored ~12" iPad comes out and drives demand for productivity apps based around photo/video editing or anything else where the content can eat up a lot of memory increases I can see it, but right now the most popular apps aren't heavy memory users. Even the most popular games tend to be pretty light on the graphics and memory.

Otherwise, for a phone, there really isn't anything beyond the web browser or some cutting-edge game that needs that much RAM.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Outside of some games, what actually needs that much RAM on a phone?

The same things that use RAM on a "real" computer- photo editing, video editing, gaming, productivity software, virtualization, etc.

See that is my beef, the whole "well what do you expect out of a phone?" argument. A modern phone or tablet has a multi-core CPU, last gen console graphics, and more storage space than my college PC. They are computers, and I expect them to function like computers as much as possible.

I can take an Android phone, hook in a mouse and keyboard, hook it to a monitor and have a halfway workable desktop computer. In the next ten years it will make a play to be THE OS for market share, and there is no reason it shouldn't.

These devices are beasts, and it makes no sense limiting their potential just because some now dead guru believed in artificial limits for the form factor or because 90% of people can't do more with them than check Facebook. 90% of people can't keep a PC clean without an IT staff but that doesn't stop me from playing CS:Go or you from editing video in Adobe.

It is time to stop looking at the ground and time to start looking at the sky. ARM is the democratization of computers, but we will take longer to get there if we happily accept when they sell us limited compute appliances instead.

 

[mrochester]

The same things that use RAM on a "real" computer- photo editing, video editing, gaming, productivity software, virtualization, etc.

See that is my beef, the whole "well what do you expect out of a phone?" argument. A modern phone or tablet has a multi-core CPU, last gen console graphics, and more storage space than my college PC. They are computers, and I expect them to function like computers as much as possible.

I can take an Android phone, hook in a mouse and keyboard, hook it to a monitor and have a halfway workable desktop computer. In the next ten years it will make a play to be THE OS for market share, and there is no reason it shouldn't.

These devices are beasts, and it makes no sense limiting their potential just because some now dead guru believed in artificial limits for the form factor or because 90% of people can't do more with them than check Facebook. 90% of people can't keep a PC clean without an IT staff but that doesn't stop me from playing CS:Go or you from editing video in Adobe.

It is time to stop looking at the ground and time to start looking at the sky. ARM is the democratization of computers, but we will take longer to get there if we happily accept when they sell us limited compute appliances instead.

Sounds like you're trying to make smartphones more than they need to be. There's just no need for a smartphone to be able to have a keyboard or mouse plugged into it. If I want a keyboard or mouse, I'll use my desktop or laptop.

 

[Mopetar]

The same things that use RAM on a "real" computer- photo editing, video editing, gaming, productivity software, virtualization, etc. . . . They are computers, and I expect them to function like computers as much as possible.

The problem is that for those applications, while you can do them with a mobile app, for professional grade work, a desktop is still going to be used. First the amount of power available is significantly higher.

Second, many of those tasks require a larger screen. Even a rumored 12" iPad screen isn't going to be enough for serious professionals. Start adding in tool bars and other necessary information and that 12" disappears in a hurry.

As much as you might want to be able to do all of those things, there isn't enough of a market to justify the existence of such a product. There aren't enough people like you yet to justify the product on a massive scale and in trying to satisfy the requirements or demands of a niche group of users, you invariably end up with something like this:

 

[mrochester]

The problem is that for those applications, while you can do them with a mobile app, for professional grade work, a desktop is still going to be used. First the amount of power available is significantly higher.

Second, many of those tasks require a larger screen. Even a rumored 12" iPad screen isn't going to be enough for serious professionals. Start adding in tool bars and other necessary information and that 12" disappears in a hurry.

As much as you might want to be able to do all of those things, there isn't enough of a market to justify the existence of such a product. There aren't enough people like you yet to justify the product on a massive scale and in trying to satisfy the requirements or demands of a niche group of users, you invariably end up with something like this:

Great image. That's the car equivilent of what a smartphone would look like if you asked an Android enthusiast to design it 😛

 

[dainthomas]

The problem is that for those applications, while you can do them with a mobile app, for professional grade work, a desktop is still going to be used. First the amount of power available is significantly higher.

Second, many of those tasks require a larger screen. Even a rumored 12" iPad screen isn't going to be enough for serious professionals. Start adding in tool bars and other necessary information and that 12" disappears in a hurry.

As much as you might want to be able to do all of those things, there isn't enough of a market to justify the existence of such a product. There aren't enough people like you yet to justify the product on a massive scale and in trying to satisfy the requirements or demands of a niche group of users, you invariably end up with something like this:

There is simply no reason for Apple not to add a gig of ram. Percentage wise, how much does that add to the cost? Wouldn't it be worth it to even just make the web browser run better?

 

[mrochester]

There is simply no reason for Apple not to add a gig of ram. Percentage wise, how much does that add to the cost? Wouldn't it be worth it to even just make the web browser run better?

It would cost Apple whatever the extra cost is per unit multiplied by however tens of millions of that device they sell. So many tens of millions of £££ of profit, given up just like that and for no appreciable difference to the consumer.

 

[dawheat]

It would cost Apple whatever the extra cost is per unit multiplied by however tens of millions of that device they sell. So many tens of millions of £££ of profit, given up just like that and for no appreciable difference to the consumer.

No appreciable difference? Safari alone would be worth the benefit - there's a reason they finally added it to the iPad Air 2 and almost definitely are adding it to the iPhone 6S. 1GB of RAM adds about $5 to the BOM - so instead of $18 billion in profit last quarter, it might have been 17.6 billion, all while making the 6 and 6 Plus quite a bit more future proof. But instead it's going to occur on the S update to help next year's upgrade cycle.

Let's not fool ourselves - this was a decision in the best interest of Apple and probably acceptable for a lot of users, but definitely not in the consumer's best interest. Not sure why a consumer would necessarily support a decision that increases profits at the expense of themselves - certainly understand it sure, but not support it.

 

[mrochester]

No appreciable difference? Safari alone would be worth the benefit - there's a reason they finally added it to the iPad Air 2 and almost definitely are adding it to the iPhone 6S. 1GB of RAM adds about $5 to the BOM - so instead of $18 billion in profit last quarter, it might have been 17.6 billion, all while making the 6 and 6 Plus quite a bit more future proof. But instead it's going to occur on the S update to help next year's upgrade cycle.

Let's not fool ourselves - this was a decision in the best interest of Apple and probably acceptable for a lot of users, but definitely not in the consumer's best interest. Not sure why a consumer would necessarily support a decision that increases profits at the expense of themselves - certainly understand it sure, but not support it.

Every single product you buy is sold to you with the interests of the company making it in mind, not you the consumer. Welcome to capitalism!

 

[dawheat]

The same things that use RAM on a "real" computer- photo editing, video editing, gaming, productivity software, virtualization, etc.

See that is my beef, the whole "well what do you expect out of a phone?" argument. A modern phone or tablet has a multi-core CPU, last gen console graphics, and more storage space than my college PC. They are computers, and I expect them to function like computers as much as possible.

I can take an Android phone, hook in a mouse and keyboard, hook it to a monitor and have a halfway workable desktop computer. In the next ten years it will make a play to be THE OS for market share, and there is no reason it shouldn't.

These devices are beasts, and it makes no sense limiting their potential just because some now dead guru believed in artificial limits for the form factor or because 90% of people can't do more with them than check Facebook. 90% of people can't keep a PC clean without an IT staff but that doesn't stop me from playing CS:Go or you from editing video in Adobe.

It is time to stop looking at the ground and time to start looking at the sky. ARM is the democratization of computers, but we will take longer to get there if we happily accept when they sell us limited compute appliances instead.

I hear you - I think we all want to get to a world where you can dock (or maybe even wirelessly connect) your phone and use it with a monitor/peripherals and do desktop/laptop level work. So it would switch from a mobile focused UI/apps and bring up desktop versions when docked in.

SOCs, memory, and storage are getting to the point where it's starting to be possible. However the software would need to be simple and seamless at switching between experiences - something I think is years off.

So until that convergence point, I understand keeping a mobile phone focused on the mobile experience. But the future is going to be pretty cool.

 

[dawheat]

Every single product you buy is sold to you with the interests of the company making it in mind, not you the consumer. Welcome to capitalism!

Of course - that doesn't mean you should support or be happy when a company makes those types of decisions. You seem to be defending Apple - as an investor sure, but as a consumer, why in the world would you be content with a tradeoff that was purely at the benefit of the company at your expense? Especially in a premium product that has enormous profit margins.

Ichinisan and dainthomas are unhappy with the Safari experience - as a fellow consumer, even if you don't use multiple tabs in Safari, why would you argue against that?