Apparently the terrorists aren't scaring enough people

[Nebor]

http://www.popularmechanics.co...aw/2818211.html?page=1

"The response we usually get is, 'Holy s---!'" Nieves says. "That's the reaction we want. We are in the business of scaring people--we just want to scare the right people."

I mean, really, what the fuck. This is a POLICE STATE people.

You have a municipal police department running around in unmarked SUVs with machine guns and body armor, doing fake "raids" to scare the citizens into fearing the government.

As long as we're on the subject, why the fuck does a municipal police department have officers in Tel Aviv and London?

I'm hopping mad over this article, and look at the pictures. The jack booted thugs are smiling at the attention and fear.

 

[Nebor]

'terrorist noun
a person who tries to frighten people or governments into doing what he/she wants by using or threatening violence

So who's the terrorist now?

We're just a couple years away from these guys rolling through the streets of NYC in a HUMVEE with an M240 mounted on the roof.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Did you even read the article? He specifically says he wants to only scare the right people...meaning it should be intimidating for anyone who might have the idea of causing a person/place harm. I think New Yorkers deserve that piece of mind and reassurance. If you've done nothing wrong, you really don't have any reason to be fearful of the cops do you? Detectives were monitoring the crowd for people taking notes, etc. Why do you think someone would take notes if they weren't a reporter? Oh....maybe to learn how to counter the team if they did want to cause trouble? Or what schedules they follow, who's working in the team, etc. I think it's pretty sad that you'll compare this to the KGB. Criminals get more rights than victims and cops are under more scrutiny now than ever. I doubt the red arm band is close. I also think it's pretty sad that you compare this to the KGB. You obviously know very little about that organization, especially for growing up in a communist country. I guess the cops should just give up. Seems like the NYPD can't get anything right without people jumping all over them.

I really want to smack the person who wrote that article comment back to reality. I think he hit every cliche possible.

 

[brxndxn]

That article is fucking bullshit.

BTW, Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Corporation.. The president of Hearst Corporation...
Black, Cathleen P. - President of Hearst Magazines; a director of Coca-Cola and IBM
... is a CFR member.

along with:

Paisner, Bruce Lawrence - Vice President of The Hearst Corp.; President of Hearst Entertainment

obtained from:

http://www.stopthenorthamerica...on.com/CFRMembers.html

 

[Jaskalas]

More like police city. Seeing as it is New York City doing it, and not New York State.

The show of force like that is blatantly stupid, considering we?re not in an active period of repeated attacks against us. NYC does not need to be patrolled like Iraq, if the need arises for that I?m sure we?ll all know it. Until then, it is up to the NYC residents to tell their city what not to do.

 

[Vonkhan]

I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
More like police city. Seeing as it is New York City doing it, and not New York State.

The show of force like that is blatantly stupid, considering we?re not in an active period of repeated attacks against us. NYC does not need to be patrolled like Iraq, if the need arises for that I?m sure we?ll all know it. Until then, it is up to the NYC residents to tell their city what not to do.

Um, when someone says "police state" they are referring not necessarily to what the US defines as a state... you do realize that right?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

 

[manowar821]

Gotta love this quote "...We are dealing now with threats that are deliberately operating under the radar. Therefore, we have to aim the radar lower, to the local level..."

I'm not going to play shy about this, I think they're fascist pigs.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Nebor
The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

:laugh:

Ok, it's sad, too.


Everyone should watch this.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

This seems a little alarmist. I'm not sure how you make the jump from NYC cops patrolling the city and conducting counter-terrorism exercises and techniques to dragging away NYC residents for dissent. When they just wanted to search subway goer's bags after 9/11 the city essentially had a crapfest. When something worth being worried about arises, I'll take notice. Until then I'm not jumping at shadows cast by the people who are trying to keep us safe, and who personally know the price of failing to do so.

As to the OP you take the "scare" comment and inflate it and twist it to mean the intent is to scare US citizens. The next line of the article reads: "The people the NYPD hopes to scare are the ideological brothers of the Islamic extremists who have successfully attacked New York City twice in the past 13 years." Fine by me.

You question why NYPD has officers overseas. Maybe because NYC is one of the biggest targets for terrorists in the world and it behooves the department, the officers and the city to get international experience on terrorism? It has been said time and again that preventing terror attacks is better treated as a police problem at the local level, and not for the army to stop. But it's nice our gov't allocates million$ to protect "potential terrorist targets" like petting zoos in Iowa.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

This seems a little alarmist. I'm not sure how you make the jump from NYC cops patrolling the city and conducting counter-terrorism exercises and techniques to dragging away NYC residents for dissent. When they just wanted to search subway goer's bags after 9/11 the city essentially had a crapfest. When something worth being worried about arises, I'll take notice. Until then I'm not jumping at shadows cast by the people who are trying to keep us safe, and who personally know the price of failing to do so.

According to Naomi Wolf, there are 10 things the gov't would do in order to change a democracy to fascism...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...se-down-a_b_46695.html

1 Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2 Create a gulag
3 Develop a thug caste
4 Set up an internal surveillance system
5 Harass citizens' groups
6 Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7 Target key individuals
8 Control the press
9 Dissent equals treason
10 Suspend the rule of law

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
More like police city. Seeing as it is New York City doing it, and not New York State.

The show of force like that is blatantly stupid, considering we?re not in an active period of repeated attacks against us. NYC does not need to be patrolled like Iraq, if the need arises for that I?m sure we?ll all know it. Until then, it is up to the NYC residents to tell their city what not to do.

Um, when someone says "police state" they are referring not necessarily to what the US defines as a state... you do realize that right?

Hahahaha!

As to the original topic, it's disgusting and completely against what this country is about.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

This seems a little alarmist. I'm not sure how you make the jump from NYC cops patrolling the city and conducting counter-terrorism exercises and techniques to dragging away NYC residents for dissent. When they just wanted to search subway goer's bags after 9/11 the city essentially had a crapfest. When something worth being worried about arises, I'll take notice. Until then I'm not jumping at shadows cast by the people who are trying to keep us safe, and who personally know the price of failing to do so.

According to Naomi Wolf, there are 10 things the gov't would do in order to change a democracy to fascism...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...se-down-a_b_46695.html

1 Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2 Create a gulag
3 Develop a thug caste
4 Set up an internal surveillance system
5 Harass citizens' groups
6 Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7 Target key individuals
8 Control the press
9 Dissent equals treason
10 Suspend the rule of law

I'm not sure why she's an authority, but whatever. Regardless, this article has NYPD patrolling around the city conducting training exercises...why the freakout? Calling them jackbooted thugs makes no sense to me. They're cops, they wear boots, they have guns. Show me one example of them depriving a person of their rights that wasn't publicly addressed. You think they are holding NY residents captive somewhere? I will be alarmed when I hear something worth being alarmed about. This ain't it.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

This seems a little alarmist. I'm not sure how you make the jump from NYC cops patrolling the city and conducting counter-terrorism exercises and techniques to dragging away NYC residents for dissent. When they just wanted to search subway goer's bags after 9/11 the city essentially had a crapfest. When something worth being worried about arises, I'll take notice. Until then I'm not jumping at shadows cast by the people who are trying to keep us safe, and who personally know the price of failing to do so.

As to the OP you take the "scare" comment and inflate it and twist it to mean the intent is to scare US citizens. The next line of the article reads: "The people the NYPD hopes to scare are the ideological brothers of the Islamic extremists who have successfully attacked New York City twice in the past 13 years." Fine by me.

You question why NYPD has officers overseas. Maybe because NYC is one of the biggest targets for terrorists in the world and it behooves the department, the officers and the city to get international experience on terrorism? It has been said time and again that preventing terror attacks is better treated as a police problem at the local level, and not for the army to stop. But it's nice our gov't allocates million$ to protect "potential terrorist targets" like petting zoos in Iowa.

Oh please. :roll:

A bunch of armed thugs don't intimidate terrorists. Terrorists fully expect to die for their cause and they plan accordingly. The possibility of being shot is just a part of their planning. You can't fight terrorism with machine guns.

No, the only purpose of these kinds of forces are to intimidate the populace.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

This seems a little alarmist. I'm not sure how you make the jump from NYC cops patrolling the city and conducting counter-terrorism exercises and techniques to dragging away NYC residents for dissent. When they just wanted to search subway goer's bags after 9/11 the city essentially had a crapfest. When something worth being worried about arises, I'll take notice. Until then I'm not jumping at shadows cast by the people who are trying to keep us safe, and who personally know the price of failing to do so.

According to Naomi Wolf, there are 10 things the gov't would do in order to change a democracy to fascism...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...se-down-a_b_46695.html

1 Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2 Create a gulag
3 Develop a thug caste
4 Set up an internal surveillance system
5 Harass citizens' groups
6 Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7 Target key individuals
8 Control the press
9 Dissent equals treason
10 Suspend the rule of law

I'm not sure why she's an authority, but whatever. Regardless, this article has NYPD patrolling around the city conducting training exercises...why the freakout? Calling them jackbooted thugs makes no sense to me. They're cops, they wear boots, they have guns. Show me one example of them depriving a person of their rights that wasn't publicly addressed. You think they are holding NY residents captive somewhere? I will be alarmed when I hear something worth being alarmed about. This ain't it.

Screw authority, you don't need to be a figure head to point out facts like these. She also mentioned the point that I like to make, that never in the history of human civilization has the creation of a paramilitary group NOT been turned on it's own citizens, ala' fascism or despotism.

You don't need to be an authority figure to be intelligent. In fact, I think the two tend to repel each-other.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You can't fight terrorism with machine guns.

You're right, but they do work wonders on terrorists.

 

[PepePeru]

i remember hearing that the LAPD has 1 or 2 UAVs

that scares me more than anything.

soon enough (10-15 years), were going to have thousands of drones hovering over our cities, intercepting communications, spying on law abiding citizens.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: manowar821
She also mentioned the point that I like to make, that never in the history of human civilization has the creation of a paramilitary group NOT been turned on it's own citizens, ala' fascism or despotism.

Since you are characterizing the NYPD as a paramilitary group, I guess you're against all police forces?

 

[glutenberg]

Tech forums are truly the best place to get doomsday predictions.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: manowar821
She also mentioned the point that I like to make, that never in the history of human civilization has the creation of a paramilitary group NOT been turned on it's own citizens, ala' fascism or despotism.

Seeing as how you're characterizing the NYPD as a paramilitary force, I guess you're against all police forces?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: manowar821
She also mentioned the point that I like to make, that never in the history of human civilization has the creation of a paramilitary group NOT been turned on it's own citizens, ala' fascism or despotism.

So I guess you're against all police forces then?

The police are to "protect and serve", they're civillians FOR civillans. They're not military, and they're not paramilitary. Three completely different things.

I'm fine with a respectable police force, who feel obligated to serve the people who pay their wages through taxes. I also feel fine with military forces who are paid for by taxes, to serve the people on a national scale. Both of these groups are by the people, for the people, and answer TO the people.

The line is drawn there, though. A paramilitary group does not answer to the people, and they're not designed specifically to serve or protect the people.

I think you're just confused.. Please, go look up the term "paramilitary".

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention... It's kind of important. If these types of security models are created for the police force, they're no longer the peoples police.
So, in short, if they don't answer to the people, they're not the police. I'm not saying the NYPD is DEFINITELY a paramilitary group, but it's disturbing to say the least.

 

[PepePeru]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: manowar821
She also mentioned the point that I like to make, that never in the history of human civilization has the creation of a paramilitary group NOT been turned on it's own citizens, ala' fascism or despotism.

Since you are characterizing the NYPD as a paramilitary group, I guess you're against all police forces?

congrats on your argument sirjonk.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: BoberFett
You can't fight terrorism with machine guns.

You're right, but they do work wonders on terrorists.

No they don't. The thing about terrorists is that you don't know who they are until they've already committed the act. Machine guns do not stop terrorists.

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
I work in midtown, seen this happen a few times now esp. on Lex. Ave.

First time, you're like WTF ?!! the next few times ... nm, its just NYPD trying to figure who eated their cookie

Exactly. You get used to it. They get more and more militarized. The first time you see them drag off one of your coworkers for dissenting speech, you'll be like WTF. The next few times, you just get used to it.

actually if they drag off a few of my co-workers, I'll be more like woohoo!!!

but yes, I do get your point.

and yes, some of the NYPD units I've seen are as heavily armed as Marines

The most annoying ones are the "undercover" taxis ... cabs driven by NYPD undercover officers :|