Apartment is not electrically grounded. Should I really worry?

[Red Squirrel]

It's actually advised to replace outlets with GFCI in situations where there is no ground. That wont fix the surge bar in this case though, so I'd still find a way to run a ground.

 

[TridenT]

Just moved out of a place with no ground for the past 41 months. I have much experience with plugging in various electronics. (Including a 1800w toaster oven)

I never had huge issues but you can search my thread started history to get an idea of some of the issues.

There were some and if you run high end speakers, expect issues.

 

[westom]

Well, the fuses blow whenever I use too many appliances at once. That's gotta protect my expensive devices at least to some degree.

Power strip does not protect from circuit overload. And does not protect from typically destructive surges. It does protect from transients that are also made irrelevant by existing protection inside the TV.

Your concern is a transient that is actually destructive. And that must be connected to earth where wires enter the building. For example, this superior solution might be installed by your electric utility behind their meter. Or your landlord may be happy to also protect his appliances by installing this other and effective protector. A 'whole house' protector.

That power strip is typically so undersized as to even, in rare cases, cause a fire. IOW that power strip also needs to be protected by the other and proven service entrance protector.

You cannot run a safety ground wire from the receptacle to water pipes. That is a safety code violation. And will do nothing to make the power strip any more effective.

That power strip does not need a safety ground to provide transistor safety. It must have a safety ground to meet UL requirements for human safety.

 

[tortillasoup]

If your Box is grounded you can use these.

http://www.structuretech1.com/2009/01/converting-two-prong-outlets/

Scroll down to the part "What about two-prong to three-prong adapters"

.

Those are unsafe unless you're 100% certain the junction box for the outlet is metal and is grounded. Most junction boxes aren't grounded in houses built with 2 prong outlets because if they were, then replacing with a 3 prong outlet would be simple.

 

[bradley]

Power strip does not protect from circuit overload. And does not protect from typically destructive surges. It does protect from transients that are also made irrelevant by existing protection inside the TV.

Your concern is a transient that is actually destructive. And that must be connected to earth where wires enter the building. For example, this superior solution might be installed by your electric utility behind their meter. Or your landlord may be happy to also protect his appliances by installing this other and effective protector. A 'whole house' protector .

Whole house protection isn't perfect, at least the non-commercial kind, but it's way better than those powerstrips. Like you have stated, most modern equipment now contains beefy caps and regulators to protect from transients.

Or another angle is a pure-sine wave filtration UPS, like the *excellent* Cyberpower PFC line. Lots of protection for very little cost.

 

[Thebobo]

Those are unsafe unless you're 100% certain the junction box for the outlet is metal and is grounded. Most junction boxes aren't grounded in houses built with 2 prong outlets because if they were, then replacing with a 3 prong outlet would be simple.

Thats why I said on the top of my post "If your Box is grounded."

I left a link to for the OP to easily find out if their outlets are grounded.

My house was built in the 50s and all the boxes are grounded. I switched most of mine by replacing the outlets.

 

[tortillasoup]

Thats why I said on the top of my post "If your Box is grounded."

I left a link to for the OP to easily find out if their outlets are grounded.

My house was built in the 50s and all the boxes are grounded. I switched most of mine by replacing the outlets.

The picture distracted me from seeing your comment above the picture but whatever, good to emphasize the potential dangers of using one of those adapters.

 

[westom]

Or another angle is a pure-sine wave filtration UPS, like the *excellent* Cyberpower PFC line. Lots of protection for very little cost.

If a pure sine wave UPS did that protection, then included are manufacturer specification numbers that claims that protection. Joules number defines near zero protection.

This 120 volt UPS is also a sine wave UPS. It outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to superior protection already inside all electronics, this UPS is clean enough power.

How is a sqaure or stepped wave also a pure sine wave? They need people to forget what was taught in high school math. A square wave is nothing but a sum of pure sine waves. So it is called a pure sine wave UPS - in sales brochures where it is legal to claim almost anything. Honest facts are in numeric specs.

UPS does not claim to protect from destrutive surges that would blow right through that UPS. It does not claim to protect hardware.

Nobody said a 'whole house' protector is 100% protection. If earthing is done properly, then an IEEE standard defines how effective: 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. For homeowners, the is a best and least expensive solution. And essential to also protect power strip protectors and UPS.

Best protection at the appliance is already inside the appliance. Therefore 'dirtiest' power from a UPS in battery backup mode is also 'clean' electricity. Protection from destructive transients must be where that current might enter the building.

'Whole house' solution is also ideal hardware protection in buildings with only two wire circuits (no safety ground).

'Whole house' protection typically costs about $1 per protected appliance. $30 for that power strip. And maybe $100 per for a UPS that probably claims even less protection in its numeric specifications.

Some electric utilities will even rent a 'whole house' protector.

 

[westom]

Thats why I said on the top of my post "If your Box is grounded."

If a box was grounded, then it already contains a three prong receptacle. It only has a two prong receptacle because it is not grounded.

Warning: the reverse is not true. If a box contains a three prong receptacle, that does not mean it is grounded.

 

[bradley]

If a pure sine wave UPS did that protection, then included are manufacturer specification numbers that claims that protection. Joules number defines near zero protection.

This 120 volt UPS is also a sine wave UPS. It outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to superior protection already inside all electronics, this UPS is clean enough power.

How is a sqaure or stepped wave also a pure sine wave? They need people to forget what was taught in high school math. A square wave is nothing but a sum of pure sine waves. So it is called a pure sine wave UPS - in sales brochures where it is legal to claim almost anything. Honest facts are in numeric specs.

UPS does not claim to protect from destrutive surges that would blow right through that UPS. It does not claim to protect hardware.

Nobody said a 'whole house' protector is 100% protection. If earthing is done properly, then an IEEE standard defines how effective: 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. For homeowners, the is a best and least expensive solution. And essential to also protect power strip protectors and UPS.

Best protection at the appliance is already inside the appliance. Therefore 'dirtiest' power from a UPS in battery backup mode is also 'clean' electricity. Protection from destructive transients must be where that current might enter the building.

'Whole house' solution is also ideal hardware protection in buildings with only two wire circuits (no safety ground).

'Whole house' protection typically costs about $1 per protected appliance. $30 for that power strip. And maybe $100 per for a UPS that probably claims even less protection in its numeric specifications.

Some electric utilities will even rent a 'whole house' protector.

In your haste, you might have missed my message with not only a SPD recommendation, but links to actual units. They are a no-brainer.

My main point was to ensure that anyone cover all their electrical bases. Don't ever get lulled into thinking that a powerstrip provides you enough safety. All of these electrical insults add up to greatly affect longevity.

I also believe you are greatly discounting the benefit of these Cyberpower units, or what PFC compatibility entails especially for computer equipment. These UPS output an extremely clean sine wave very impressively for units of this price.

And yes, pure clean energy does matter. I have seen computers do some very strange things with 1s and 0s in ungrounded homes with noisy outlets. Suddenly those elusive problems have immediate fixes with just a few tweaks in an older home.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

What's the loophole to keep the property owner from not having the property condemned by local code enforcement? Is NYC that relaxed on codes?

 

[HeXen]

My mom has a house that doesn't have grounds, my grandma lived there, mom lived there and I had lived there, it's been there forever and never had an issue.

 

[Thebobo]

If a box was grounded, then it already contains a three prong receptacle. It only has a two prong receptacle because it is not grounded.

Not in my house. It has/had two prongs receptacles. The cable coming into the box has a ground wire that is attached to the ground screw in the box.My house was built in the 50s.

 

[westom]

And yes, pure clean energy does matter. I have seen computers do some very strange things with 1s and 0s in ungrounded homes with noisy outlets. Suddenly those elusive problems have immediate fixes with just a few tweaks in an older home.

Many claim power cycling light bulbs can shorten their life expectancy. Knowledge only from observation. Conclusion without first learning how things really work or by obtaining technical numbers. Knowledge from observation is also called junk science reasoning.

If 'dirty' electricity was destructive, then all electronics are failing quickly. What happens to 'pure' power from a Cyberpower? It is converted to well over 300 volt high frequency spikes. It is converted into the 'dirtiest' electricity inside a building. Why is that not harming transistors? Superior filters already inside all electronics convert 300+ volt spikes into pure and rock solid 3.3, 5, 12 and other DC voltages.

Trivial 'dirt' from AC mains is routinely made irrelevant by same filtering. It makes 270 volt spikes from this UPS irrelevant. 'Clean' power is often hooey since cleaner power is more often provided by AC mains. And electronics already have superior filters.

You are expected to know how electronics work (with numbers) before making a recommendation. If the Cyberpower is cleaner power, then where are spec numbers that define it (ie %THD)? Those facts and numbers are required to avert junk science.

PFC also does nothing for hardware protection. PFC reduces power consumption. PFC is completely irrelevant to this topic and to what the OP has asked for.

Grounding at a receptacle does not protect transistors. That ground protects human life. His power strip must have a three prong receptacle because codes require that for human protection.

A surge that might damage the OP's appliances would also blow throught that Cyberpower. His concern is transients that actually cause damage. Only solution (proven by over 100 years of science and experience AND found in every facility that cannot have damage) is a properly earthed 'whole house' solution. That is a least expensive solution recommended by technical facts and numbers; not using observation and speculation.

Cyberpower (a UPS) has one important purpose. To provide temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved.

 

[Arcadio]

Something weird is going on in my apartment: The reason I thought the electrical outlets were not grounded is because my surge protector's "Ground" light was off. After connecting my PS3 and a receiver in the same surge protector, the "Ground" light came on. So I'm not even sure if the outlets are grounded or not. Why would a surge protector's "Ground" indicator light up in some instances only?

 

[ControlD]

What's the loophole to keep the property owner from not having the property condemned by local code enforcement? Is NYC that relaxed on codes?

There is no loop hole required. A building has to meet whatever codes are in place at the time that the services are installed. If you live in a building built in the 1920's, it had to meet 1920's code. As codes are updated there is no requirement to go back in and update the services to meet those codes unless there is some type of construction being done. At that time, the new construction would need to meet whatever the current codes are.

If every building had to be constantly brought up to the ever changing codes you would never be able to live in a place for long before it was condemned.

 

[westom]

Why would a surge protector's "Ground" indicator light up in some instances only?

First, appreciate that the light cannot report a good ground. It can only report a defective ground.

Second, the light probably requires microamps to be triggered on. It could be finding that microamp circuit via AC mains filters inside the PS3 or receiever. Possible. Many additional facts are required to say more. But another example of why that light cannot report a good ground.

 

[NoTine42]

If a box was grounded, then it already contains a three prong receptacle. It only has a two prong receptacle because it is not grounded.

Warning: the reverse is not true. If a box contains a three prong receptacle, that does not mean it is grounded.

A box can be grounded if the 2 wires were running inside metal conduit (properly connected conduit can be a ground) .but that may be more common around Chicago (they seem to be more sensitive to fires)

 

[natto fire]

Unless it's a hundred years old, it was code when it was built. It was code when wires were bare wrapped around ceramic resister posts. It constitutes hazardous living conditions.

Should be noted that even knob and tube did not have "bare wires", and the copper was/is insulated in even the earliest implementation of this in the late 1800's. Those systems can still be hazardous for a myriad of other reasons, but bare copper is not one of them.

I believe resistors with 100% resistance are insulators.

Resistance is measured in ohms, not percentage, even "insulators" can move electrons if the potential is high enough.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Unless it's a hundred years old, it was code when it was built. It was code when wires were bare wrapped around ceramic resister posts. It constitutes hazardous living conditions.

There are plenty of buildings and houses in NYC and the surrounding boroughs that are over 100 years old.

 

[Humpy]

Resistance is measured in ohms, not percentage, even "insulators" can move electrons if the potential is high enough.

How it is measured is irrelevant to my post. As with conductivity, resistance can be reported as a percentage of IACS (conductivity of copper is 100% IACS at 20°C) or a % of just about anything. Therefore, in conclusion, I am always right.

 

[bradley]

There are plenty of buildings and houses in NYC and the surrounding boroughs that are over 100 years old.

The northeast especially has lots of 100+ year-old buildings. This is actually a truly fascinating link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_buildings_in_the_United_States

 

[natto fire]

How it is measured is irrelevant to my post. As with conductivity, resistance can be reported as a percentage of IACS (conductivity of copper is 100% IACS at 20°C) or a % of just about anything. Therefore, in conclusion, I am always right.

OK, just pointing out that even insulators can move electricity. I have seen, in practice, an "insulated" tree branch move current when contacting a 7.5 kV transmission line.

Considering you didn't set up a reference for your percentage stat, i thought I would shed light in that percentages are not really used to explain conductivity. Works great for absolutes, which most folks can easily digest, but it's not how it actually works.

You might be right, but it still instills brevity in the junk science crowd. Is the vacuum of space 100% in your resistance scale, or just the insulative properties of pure silicon?