AP IMPACT: US drug war has met none of its goals

[coreyb]

wouldn't hurt to try something different.

 

[cornbread]

We're never going to win the "war on drugs", might as well give up, legalize, and put the trillions that's going towards police and prison systems as well as the billions thats going to other countries to eradicate the drugs towards mental health and drug rehab programs. Look at Amsterdam and other countries that have decriminalized... I know a guy that moved from here to Amsterdam and he was actually able to take a nap on a park bench without worry of being robbed. If the drugs were legalized and taxed at a fair price that would make the black market go out of business, we wouldn't have to worry as much about drug and gang violence... Sure, there are going to be people that will stand on the corners and beg for money for drugs, and there are going to be your occasional addicts who rob you, but it won't be nearly as bad as it is now. We did fine in the days that drugs were legal, and we'll do fine with them legal again. As far as pharmaceutical drugs go, make it where any doctor can call or fax or internet order any drug in to any pharmacy that they want, don't just allow certain drugs to be called in and require a script for others. If someone wants some heroin, sell it at the drug store, and don't require a prescription. They're going to get their hands on it either way if they want it bad enough, and if they get it from the black market its likely to have adulterants and some of those could be deadly. Our government would save so much money freeing the people in prison and jails for drug charges (How about have a law that you can do it as long as you're in a private establishment such as a coffee shop or in your home, and only lock up people for public intoxication). I'm not a druggie, I don't plan on using drugs, but with the economy in the shambles its in, and with the violence escalating here in America and especially along the Mexican border, I look at it as an economical advantage to free up the prisons, use them for the killers, rapists, and true criminals, not just some pothead that didn't do anything other than smoke a joint. I'm not sure about other states, but in Alabama the law on marijuana is purely stupid: 1st offense: Jail up to 1 year, usually they just give probation... 2nd offense (this is for personal possession of marijuana) is a FELONY with a MINIMUM 1 year in prison... Luckily, if you're in a city here, and you only have a small amount, the cops are likely just to take it/throw it away and let you off with a warning...Unless you get a rookie cop or one of the ones that wants to "get tough on crime". People, alcohol is much more potent and much more dangerous than pot, but as long as you drink in a private establishment or in your own home, you have no worries of getting arrested. Why not have it the same with other drugs?

 

[JS80]

Well, legalizing it might not solve the crime problem either. Whose to say that the shady drug dealers won't just threaten honest pharmacists now able to sell cocaine and prevent them from entering town?

Hell, city and town legislation does it all the time to companies like McDonald's and Wal Mart. The rationale is "preserving the atmosphere of the town," in other words, "we don't want more private jobs in this area or else we lose control and the town stops being a shit hole that we can gloat over while blaming Republicans and the free market."

If so-called "legal governments" can do this, what's to say black market organizations won't do the same?

The only plausible scenario I can see coming from this is the pharmaceutical companies manufacturing the stuff, whether it's hashish or cocaine, and the stuff is of a certain quality--I'd like to the FDA to stay the hell away, but I know that's too much to ask, especially for all the leftists who get off on government controlling as much of other people's lives as possible.
So the quality is reflected in the price, less strong hash is X while stronger hash is 2X etc. If the corp's manufacturing is efficient, they should be able to just out price the gangs out of the market.

Now, if the corps are unable/unwilling to lower the price of these drugs for general public consumption due to FDA/government regulation (ironically, the same sort of regulation that is pushed for so fervently by these same leftist types) the druglords are still in business, and maybe even stronger if they're able to strike under table deals with corps.

So you have a meld of big business and big drugs thanks to people's willingness to give up on a war on criminality.

My theory is that it will just legitimize bad people and reward them for choosing a horrible profession. But I wouldn't mind seeing the effects on society of making weed (which I consider a non-addictive harmless drug) legal.

Cocaine, meth, heroin - that's the scary shit. I have seen people's lives be ruined. I guess I know functioning cocaine addicts but meth and heroin is some evil shit.

 

[zinfamous]

Supplies!!!!!!

I'm reminded of a scene in UHF...

:hmm:










(was it UHF?)



it was. 😎
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRLExVldK0c&feature=related

rofl.

 

[ShawnD1]

Cocaine, meth, heroin - that's the scary shit. I have seen people's lives be ruined. I guess I know functioning cocaine addicts but meth and heroin is some evil shit.

I've seen functional druggies too.

Actually you're right. I would be lying way too hard if I said this man's brain actually worked.
(Rush Limbaugh is addicted to opiate painkillers and he's a retard)


The war on drugs isn't really against all Americans. It's only against poor Americans. If you're a middle class American and your head isn't in your ass, you can easily get a prescription for methylphenidate (similar to cocaine) or d-amphetamine (umm it's amphetamine) for your child. Just tell your doctor that you're a horrible parent and as a result your kid is bad at math; he will give you a script for Ritalin, Dexedrine, or Adderall. All of them are lots of fun, and it's covered by your insurance!

 

[Triumph]

Is it safe to say that the decriminalization of marijuana has already started? Obama has told DOJ to back off medical marijuana prosecutions. A number of states have already legalized medical marijuana. The next step will hopefully be the fed gov't to officially legalize (or rather decriminalize) marijuana for medical purposes, and leave it up to the states to regulate as they see fit. A wholesale flip to simply out and out legalize marijuana is never going to happen over night, it's going to have to happen in stages.

 

[techforums]

Is it safe to say that the decriminalization of marijuana has already started? Obama has told DOJ to back off medical marijuana prosecutions. A number of states have already legalized medical marijuana. The next step will hopefully be the fed gov't to officially legalize (or rather decriminalize) marijuana for medical purposes, and leave it up to the states to regulate as they see fit. A wholesale flip to simply out and out legalize marijuana is never going to happen over night, it's going to have to happen in stages.

It's pretty much inevitable.

 

[Pollock]

We're never going to win the "war on drugs", might as well give up, legalize, and put the trillions that's going towards police and prison systems as well as the billions thats going to other countries to eradicate the drugs towards mental health and drug rehab programs. Look at Amsterdam and other countries that have decriminalized... I know a guy that moved from here to Amsterdam and he was actually able to take a nap on a park bench without worry of being robbed. If the drugs were legalized and taxed at a fair price that would make the black market go out of business, we wouldn't have to worry as much about drug and gang violence... Sure, there are going to be people that will stand on the corners and beg for money for drugs, and there are going to be your occasional addicts who rob you, but it won't be nearly as bad as it is now. We did fine in the days that drugs were legal, and we'll do fine with them legal again. As far as pharmaceutical drugs go, make it where any doctor can call or fax or internet order any drug in to any pharmacy that they want, don't just allow certain drugs to be called in and require a script for others. If someone wants some heroin, sell it at the drug store, and don't require a prescription. They're going to get their hands on it either way if they want it bad enough, and if they get it from the black market its likely to have adulterants and some of those could be deadly. Our government would save so much money freeing the people in prison and jails for drug charges (How about have a law that you can do it as long as you're in a private establishment such as a coffee shop or in your home, and only lock up people for public intoxication). I'm not a druggie, I don't plan on using drugs, but with the economy in the shambles its in, and with the violence escalating here in America and especially along the Mexican border, I look at it as an economical advantage to free up the prisons, use them for the killers, rapists, and true criminals, not just some pothead that didn't do anything other than smoke a joint.?

pretty much

prohibition didn't work and neither does this

 

[InflatableBuddha]

The war on drugs isn't really against all Americans. It's only against poor Americans. If you're a middle class American and your head isn't in your ass, you can easily get a prescription for methylphenidate (similar to cocaine) or d-amphetamine (umm it's amphetamine) for your child. Just tell your doctor that you're a horrible parent and as a result your kid is bad at math; he will give you a script for Ritalin, Dexedrine, or Adderall. All of them are lots of fun, and it's covered by your insurance!

Actually, not just this; it's also a racist war.

Far more Blacks than Whites were incarcerated for cocaine-related offenses during the crack epidemic of the 1980s. Most Black cocaine users were using crack as it was a much cheaper variant of cocaine. By targeting crack users, the state was effectively targeting poor Black Americans.

Part of the reason weed was made illegal in the 1930s was a backlash against migrant Mexican workers in the US, who were regular users.

Part of the reason for criminalizing opiates in the late 19th/early 20th Century was a backlash against Chinese migrant workers, who were regular users (opium dens).

Good point regarding prescription drug abuse - it's a far more widespread problem than illegal drug abuse.

In Canada, regular cocaine users constitute 3% of the population; heroin users only 1%. Peanuts.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

We're never going to win the "war on drugs", might as well give up, legalize, and put the trillions that's going towards police and prison systems as well as the billions thats going to other countries to eradicate the drugs towards mental health and drug rehab programs. Look at Amsterdam and other countries that have decriminalized... I know a guy that moved from here to Amsterdam and he was actually able to take a nap on a park bench without worry of being robbed. If the drugs were legalized and taxed at a fair price that would make the black market go out of business, we wouldn't have to worry as much about drug and gang violence... Sure, there are going to be people that will stand on the corners and beg for money for drugs, and there are going to be your occasional addicts who rob you, but it won't be nearly as bad as it is now. We did fine in the days that drugs were legal, and we'll do fine with them legal again. As far as pharmaceutical drugs go, make it where any doctor can call or fax or internet order any drug in to any pharmacy that they want, don't just allow certain drugs to be called in and require a script for others. If someone wants some heroin, sell it at the drug store, and don't require a prescription. They're going to get their hands on it either way if they want it bad enough, and if they get it from the black market its likely to have adulterants and some of those could be deadly. Our government would save so much money freeing the people in prison and jails for drug charges (How about have a law that you can do it as long as you're in a private establishment such as a coffee shop or in your home, and only lock up people for public intoxication). I'm not a druggie, I don't plan on using drugs, but with the economy in the shambles its in, and with the violence escalating here in America and especially along the Mexican border, I look at it as an economical advantage to free up the prisons, use them for the killers, rapists, and true criminals, not just some pothead that didn't do anything other than smoke a joint. I'm not sure about other states, but in Alabama the law on marijuana is purely stupid: 1st offense: Jail up to 1 year, usually they just give probation... 2nd offense (this is for personal possession of marijuana) is a FELONY with a MINIMUM 1 year in prison... Luckily, if you're in a city here, and you only have a small amount, the cops are likely just to take it/throw it away and let you off with a warning...Unless you get a rookie cop or one of the ones that wants to "get tough on crime". People, alcohol is much more potent and much more dangerous than pot, but as long as you drink in a private establishment or in your own home, you have no worries of getting arrested. Why not have it the same with other drugs?

Holy Wall of Text!!

But I totally agree. Legalized drugs will be controlled and free of adulterants, similar to the current standards we have for alcoholic beverages.

It will definitely free up jail space and police resources. The problem of course is that some groups (DEA) will vigorously oppose it since they would lose their jobs.

As well, the loss of the black market removes opportunities for Western governments to invade developing nations or prop up foreign militant groups and essentially control the governments of those nations so that they are friendly to our trade and economic interests. Of course, the publicized rationales are much rosier ("spreading democracy" or "combating terrorism") 🙄.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Instead of legalizing drugs lets just take the same approach as Singapore.

 

[wheresmybacon]

I like how all the lefties' contradictions have been blown out and then deflated, so all they can resort to is petty remarks and straw men.

A perfect illustration of how leftism is just a bad attitude for juveniles who refuse to mature.

wtf does this have to do with political ideology?

 

[AMCRambler]

I vote we take all that money and build a big wall around Detroit. Then send all the crack heads, meth heads, coke heads and pot heads there. Drugs will be legal inside the walls. We'll air drop the drugs in free of charge to keep the degenerates happy so they won't have to hop the wall and rob/kill innocent people to maintain their habits.

That way, if you want to do drugs and destroy your life, you can go to Detroit. The rest of us can stay out here in the nice clean and secure world.

 

[Eli]

LOL, shocking. 🙄

Seriously, is anyone really surprised by this?

 

[Eli]

It seems to be in our DNA to want to explore altered states of consciousness. Nothing is going to stop that, except education. Not propaganda.

There is strong evidence that legalizing does work. Drug use is not rampant in The Netherlands. It has not destroyed their society.

People who want to use drugs are going to use drugs. There is nothing you can do to stop them, short of locking them up. In that sense, they are being victimized by our laws as yes, their drug use is a victimless crime. If they commit crimes to get their fix, lock them up.

It's so unbelievably ass-backwards, it blows my mind. We create the very thing we're trying to eradicate by making things illegal. It does nothing except put money into the hands of criminals. It makes it worth it for criminals to do business. This is exactly the reason alcohol prohibition was repealed. It did nothing except give criminals power.

Legalizing obviously benign things like marijuana would take hundreds of millions of dollars out of the hands of criminals and put it into the tax coffers. Street value would collapse overnight. It would be an amazing shift.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

last time i checked, mexico city was not part of the US.

unless mexico gets it shit together, there's nothing we can for them. except if we were to invade mexico, but i don't think people would much appreciate that.

not saying the drug was is (in)effective, only that reporting from mexico is useless, because mexico is not the US. we cannot pursue criminals there ourselves because it is not our country.

i'm pretty sure if things were as bad in the US as they are in mexico, the US military would stomp the $hit out of some drug rings (or i would at least hope so).

Having military police the people is illegal and I find that your thinking that is ok is very scary.

 

[preslove]

last time i checked, mexico city was not part of the US.

unless mexico gets it shit together, there's nothing we can for them. except if we were to invade mexico, but i don't think people would much appreciate that.

not saying the drug was is (in)effective, only that reporting from mexico is useless, because mexico is not the US. we cannot pursue criminals there ourselves because it is not our country.

i'm pretty sure if things were as bad in the US as they are in mexico, the US military would stomp the $hit out of some drug rings (or i would at least hope so).

40 years ago Columbia and Mexico didn't have much drug violence. Then the drug war started and they focused on columbia. This started a massive wave of violence that included tons of police, politicians, judges, and normal citizens dying. Then, when we finally broke the backs of the columbian cartels, the mexican cartels took over the main importation of not only Mexican weed, but columbian cocaine & heroine, and the growing methamphetamine business (which started because of the ephedrine bans in the US that have curtailed domestic production).

Mexico is falling apart BECAUSE of the drug war.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

The only people who want to see drugs remain illegal are those who profit from them being illegal.

1. Cartels and dealers
2. The entire LE and judicial systems
3. Politicos

Those in LE, politics and the judicial system that have reaped the benifiet of the Trillion dollars spent in 40yrs are complicite in the problem. The vast majority of them don't give a damn about the morality and well being of the people, its all about the money, and they would gladly see violence increase and incarcerate a larger % of the population to keep the money flowing. And furthermore they have no interest in stoping illegal drug distribution, just look at the ratio of users to dealers in prison.

LE goes after the users and not the dealers and kingpins for several reason:
1. It's more profitable, more to confiscate, more fines to pay, more court mandated rehab
2. It's safer, users are non-violent and for the most part don't shoot back
3. Dealers keep the game going, and the money flowing

Sure every now and then LE takes down a small time dealer selling out of his house for show, and touts millions in street value siezed (bullshit) just to act like they are doing something. About the only time you see a large operation taken down is when some tenderfoot beat cop stumbles onto one and calls the calvery before he can be corraled by higher ups on the take.

 

[cornbread]

The only people who want to see drugs remain illegal are those who profit from them being illegal.

1. Cartels and dealers
2. The entire LE and judicial systems
3. Politicos

Those in LE, politics and the judicial system that have reaped the benifiet of the Trillion dollars spent in 40yrs are complicite in the problem. The vast majority of them don't give a damn about the morality and well being of the people, its all about the money, and they would gladly see violence increase and incarcerate a larger % of the population to keep the money flowing. And furthermore they have no interest in stoping illegal drug distribution, just look at the ratio of users to dealers in prison.

LE goes after the users and not the dealers and kingpins for several reason:
1. It's more profitable, more to confiscate, more fines to pay, more court mandated rehab
2. It's safer, users are non-violent and for the most part don't shoot back
3. Dealers keep the game going, and the money flowing

Sure every now and then LE takes down a small time dealer selling out of his house for show, and touts millions in street value siezed (bullshit) just to act like they are doing something. About the only time you see a large operation taken down is when some tenderfoot beat cop stumbles onto one and calls the calvery before he can be corraled by higher ups on the take.

I'm not sure where you live, but here in Huntsville, Alabama, the police are more likely to let off someone for simple possession of pot, they'll lock you up for anything other than that, but they go after the dealers here more than anything. Every day there's an article in the paper or on the news about dealers being busted with multiple pounds of pot and other drugs. I guess it really depends on where you live as to how the police act. Meth has become such a problem here that some police departments around here focus primarily on meth and let other stuff slide. That's because so many people are manufacturing it and many do it in front of children, exposing them to the harmful chemicals. I honestly think the reason meth is so popular here is because its cheaper than coke, and heroin is almost non-existent here. Another big problem is prescription pills here, and there are many drug store robberies. The local newspaper has a crime section where they tell about each and every arrest, and there are VERY FEW arrests for personal possession of pot...Usually its the people dealing pot that have multiple bags of it on them (in Alabama personal possession is carrying 1 bag of pot, if you have more than 1 bag of pot on you, no matter how small the amount, you can get a distribution charge). I know a guy that got pulled over by a sheriff's deputy and he had about an ounce of pot and a pipe laying on his passenger seat, the deputy told him to hide it and not leave it out in the open and let him go. When I was a kid, I got pulled over with pot and all they did was throw it out one time, the other time I pissed the cop off so he called my parents and let me go to them (I was a minor). I guess he figured I'd be in more trouble with my parents than the legal system would put me in.
One thing that does sort of disturb me is there was legislation to legalize medical marijuana in Alabama, yet it didn't pass, but they did bother to outlaw salvia (which i don't use but i dont have a problem with other people who use it) and k-2 (the stuff that's supposedly just like marijuana but it wont make you fail a drug test). Seems like they're out to ban more stuff than start lessening the laws on stuff.

 

[kalrith]

Sure it has. While it may not have met its advertised goals of reducing drug consumption or availablilty, it HAS met the number one goal of increasing spending. BILLIONS are spent on larger police forces to combat drug sales, on increased staffing for district attorney offices around the country, and, of course, on increased Federal LEO spending and prosecutions...not to mention increased spending on prisons and related staffing.

In all, while the war on drugs hasn't done much to combat drug use...it's been a HUGE success in the actual goals of the program.

This reminds me of 1984.