AP: Gitmo Soldier Details Sexual Tactics

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outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,387
2,553
136
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.
Wrong....
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
It appears you are creating a strawman, TLC. With your rape/Ho comment, you're assuming I hold both offences as equal. I don't. What I do, is hold both offences as 'wrong'. You, on the other hand, appear to hold calling your sister a Ho as OK because it's a lesser offence than raping her. Is that right?

But I'm also NOT going to say what we're are doing is just as bad as what they are doing.
I'll be holding my breath until you supply names of either those who are saying that, or accussing you of saying it.


In war, the ends do justify the means.
Says it all about you Chicken. I'm glad those who make the decisions and those who actually do the fighting would agree that you're full of it.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
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Originally posted by: Gaard
It appears you are creating a strawman, TLC. With your rape/Ho comment, you're assuming I hold both offences as equal. I don't. What I do, is hold both offences as 'wrong'. You, on the other hand, appear to hold calling your sister a Ho as OK because it's a lesser offence than raping her. Is that right?
Not at all. If you'll read back through the thread I've repeatedly stated that neither the offenses by the US or the terrorists are OK. The only thing I am specifically stating is that killing someone is not the same thing as humiliating them.

But I'm also NOT going to say what we're are doing is just as bad as what they are doing.
I'll be holding my breath until you supply names of either those who are saying that, or accussing you of saying it.
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.


In war, the ends do justify the means.
Says it all about you Chicken. I'm glad those who make the decisions and those who actually do the fighting would agree that you're full of it.
All it says about me is that I'm a realist.

Besides that, weren't these women put in their place by the command structure? That was my understanding.

When is the terrorist command structure going to reign in their badly behaving boys? Any idea?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!

 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,387
2,553
136
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.
Wrong....


How so ?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.
Wrong....


How so ?
We have, over the course of the war on terror and the war on Iraq, released countless soldiers from detainment in Iraq and gitmo. They are certainly free to take up arms again. No?

 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,387
2,553
136
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.
Wrong....


How so ?
We have, over the course of the war on terror and the war on Iraq, released countless soldiers from detainment in Iraq and gitmo. They are certainly free to take up arms again. No?


Well you cannot say what they will do after they are released but while they are in custody is a different story.

If they are truely terroritst then they will take up a gun again. Then they should never have been released.

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!
I withdraw the claim.

Nobody made it. My mistake and I apologize.

I was wrong and when I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!
I withdraw the claim.

Nobody made it. My mistake and I apologize.

I was wrong and when I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit.

:thumbsup:
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.
Wrong....


How so ?
We have, over the course of the war on terror and the war on Iraq, released countless soldiers from detainment in Iraq and gitmo. They are certainly free to take up arms again. No?


Well you cannot say what they will do after they are released but while they are in custody is a different story.

If they are truely terroritst then they will take up a gun again. Then they should never have been released.
There are tests to our constitution that will eventually dictate that a lot of "true terrorists" be released. Along with that, there is a strong public pressure to abide by these tests and not circumvent them,,,,, under any circumstance.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. :(
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!
I withdraw the claim.

Nobody made it. My mistake and I apologize.

I was wrong and when I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit.

It's about time! My face was turning blue. ;)

 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Actually, for fundamentalist muslims, becoming a martyr isn't so bad - humiliating them and forcing them to 'disobey' the teachings of their religion is probably worse, psychologically. They would execute you - they probably expect you to execute them.

Similarly, in American culture it would probably be worse to make a (straight) guy take it in the rear than to chop off a few fingers, even though one of those causes permanent damage, and the other likely doesn't.

In some cultures, there ARE things worse than death - the fundamentalist muslims being tortured may very well belong to such a culture.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!
I withdraw the claim.

Nobody made it. My mistake and I apologize.

I was wrong and when I'm wrong I'm man enough to admit.

It's about time! My face was turning blue. ;)
I can sympathize with you.

Fortunately you got a withdrawal and an apology pretty quickly. I'm still waiting for some that should be coming my way. I'm not holding my breath and turning blue over it though. ;)
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How dare they treat people who would gladly kill us like this? Why it's just terrible.
So you're OK with Muslims treating Americans this way, since we would gladly kill them? (Never mind that I'm ignoring your presumption of guilt and your stereotyping that all of the detainees are the same.)

OK SO these terrorist should be treated like the ritz rip off their figernails if it saves 1 american life. That is the unspoken majority's view on this...

Oopps Naw it is the SPOKEN view remember the elections? If they employ ANY methods to save American lives it is worth it. Period! Tell med they would treat us any better give us a break. :roll:

lol
Another person who won't answer the question. :laugh:
Hey, let's make a game of this. All you guys who condone, support, or otherwise shrug off the abuse and torture we are doing, ANSWER THE QUESTION!
"Are you OK with Americans being treated the same way these Muslims are?"

Oh, I forgot, we already got the answer from a few of you...
"Hyuck, hyuck, them thar b!tches can slap thar titties on me anytime. Hyuck, hyuck."

The point of the question...if the abuse/torture heaped on Muslims doesn't bother you, would it bother you if our boys were also subjected to like abuse/torture?

Look lib retard they cut off Heads!!!!

We're embarassing them? Emotional torture, some physical torture.

I'd be doing backflips if they treated them as well as we treat those TERRORISTS in Gitmo. That is another thing these thugs are terrorists not just some poor muslim peasent.

You are unstinking believable anti-american terrorist lover. :( The ACLU terrorists would be proud!

my $.02

 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
1,607
0
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How dare they treat people who would gladly kill us like this? Why it's just terrible.
So you're OK with Muslims treating Americans this way, since we would gladly kill them? (Never mind that I'm ignoring your presumption of guilt and your stereotyping that all of the detainees are the same.)

OK SO these terrorist should be treated like the ritz rip off their figernails if it saves 1 american life. That is the unspoken majority's view on this...

Oopps Naw it is the SPOKEN view remember the elections? If they employ ANY methods to save American lives it is worth it. Period! Tell med they would treat us any better give us a break. :roll:

lol
Another person who won't answer the question. :laugh:
Hey, let's make a game of this. All you guys who condone, support, or otherwise shrug off the abuse and torture we are doing, ANSWER THE QUESTION!
"Are you OK with Americans being treated the same way these Muslims are?"

Oh, I forgot, we already got the answer from a few of you...
"Hyuck, hyuck, them thar b!tches can slap thar titties on me anytime. Hyuck, hyuck."

The point of the question...if the abuse/torture heaped on Muslims doesn't bother you, would it bother you if our boys were also subjected to like abuse/torture?

Look lib retard they cut off Heads!!!!

We're embarassing them? Emotional torture, some physical torture.

I'd be doing backflips if they treated them as well as we treat those TERRORISTS in Gitmo. That is another thing these thugs are terrorists not just some poor muslim peasent.

You are unstinking believable anti-american terrorist lover. :( The ACLU terrorists would be proud!

my $.02


Man, people need to stop and think for a minute. Obviously, you are correct Exman that these two crimes are no where near the same. Its like comparing a small time con artists to the Son of Sam killer. Yes, I would feel very lucky to only get conned when I could have been killed. But they're still both crimes and our government recognizes that. that is why these soldiers were disciplined. The proper course of action was taken by our military. That says a lot about the integrity of our military that even under the fire they take day in and day out, that they can strive to maintain such a high standarad of conduct. There will always be a few bad apples (or people that succumb to the darker side of human nature) but the military institution here in the US does not encourage that behavior and is pretty good as self policing. Bottom line: Both were a crime but what we did and, more imparotantly, how we resonded to it shows the character of our military. By the way, calling him a terrorists lover was petty.

And kudos to TLC for doing what very few will ever do here. Admit a mistake.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Oh. I see. Degrees of difference have no relevance in your world?

So whether someone calls your sister a "Ho" and humiliates her; or rapes her and then kills her, it's all the same to you?

It's all black and white. The crimes are the same.

I see.

You are also confusing the situation by jumping to a conclusion that I'm am not making. Both actions are wrong and I'm not condoning either. But I'm also NOT going to say what we're are doing is just as bad as what they are doing. One does not excuse the other, but this is a war. There is no moral high-ground during a war.

Did we have any moral high-ground in WW2 carpet bombing German cities? Of course not. We did it because it was a necessary tactic. Did we come out on the moral high-ground? Sure we did, because we won and the winner writes history, not the loser. As distateful as these tactics are, they could still help us win this war. Winning will provide us with all the moral high-ground we need. In war, the ends do justify the means. You may not like that but that's the way it is.
That reasoning didn't work for the Nazi's at the Nuremburg trials.
Well no sh!t.

psssst! The Nazis lost.
So if you win it's ok to use what ever means necessary even if it dehumanizes you?

It?s a war we are talking about here, not a ucking afternoon tea! In a war, you win or you die. The stain on the tea nappies is blood! Of course beating someone with his or her own psychosis is justified! They developed the psychosis; we just exploit it!
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.

By your logic the terrst / insurgent tactics are fine and dandy too. ;)

Yeah, and we kill them for that. Where is the debate?

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As much as I'd like to believe we can maintain the highest of moral standards, it's just not possible during a war

Why not chicken?
Because moral stamdards prevent one from even engaging in war in the first place.

There is no such thing as a moral war, ever. War is never anything more the a necessary evil.


TLC..

When an enemy soldier is caught the war is over for them.

Captured enemy soldiers are always pumped for intel. Our methods are the most humane in recorded history.

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!

The only to win a war is to be worse than they are! If you can't create fear in the minds of the enemy, you can't win.

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Actually, for fundamentalist muslims, becoming a martyr isn't so bad - humiliating them and forcing them to 'disobey' the teachings of their religion is probably worse, psychologically. They would execute you - they probably expect you to execute them.

Similarly, in American culture it would probably be worse to make a (straight) guy take it in the rear than to chop off a few fingers, even though one of those causes permanent damage, and the other likely doesn't.

In some cultures, there ARE things worse than death - the fundamentalist muslims being tortured may very well belong to such a culture.

Culture? Psychosis?

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
I'm a little confused (actually not, just being nice), liberals are aghast about our treatment of insurgent prisoners. They rant about torture when what has been done so far is the most humane interrogation procedures used to date in any war. These same liberals didn't whimper a sigh when the Clinton administration used 42 days of psychological warfare against American citizens in Waco, Texas. Why is that?
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
My personal equation for qualifying the moral high-ground is based on what we do vs. what we COULD do. We could do much, much, worse and we aren't.

Can the terrorists make the same claim?
Nope. I am definately not condoning what the Terrorist do. We, however, usually hold ourselves up to higher standards. It's just disapointing when we don't follow those standards. Don't get me wrong, I could give a sh!t about those Terrorist. I jut hate to see us lower our Moral standards and I don't agree with you condoning it.

We Lower our standards every day... Death penalty, abortion...

F these guys and keep it private. We'll never get down to their level of putting executions on the internet by sawing off heads. Give me a break these guys are the low lifes they are executing civilians mostly. You all cannot compare apple and oranges on two levels here.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
How many in here have made the claim that 'we are just as bad as they are?' Would you like me to actually go through this thread and copy and paste everyone that made that sort of statement? It will be fairly hefty list.
Yeah I would like you to go through and make a list!

The only to win a war is to be worse than they are! If you can't create fear in the minds of the enemy, you can't win.

Does that meet the definition of 'terrorism'?

 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
My personal equation for qualifying the moral high-ground is based on what we do vs. what we COULD do. We could do much, much, worse and we aren't.

Can the terrorists make the same claim?
Nope. I am definately not condoning what the Terrorist do. We, however, usually hold ourselves up to higher standards. It's just disapointing when we don't follow those standards. Don't get me wrong, I could give a sh!t about those Terrorist. I jut hate to see us lower our Moral standards and I don't agree with you condoning it.

We Lower our standards every day... Death penalty, abortion...

F these guys and keep it private. We'll never get down to their level of putting executions on the internet by sawing off heads. Give me a break these guys are the low lifes they are executing civilians mostly. You all cannot compare apple and oranges on two levels here.

Just to clarify EXman, you condone the abuse/torture of our enemies?