Anyway to slowdown SC2?

[Gerula]

I don't think there will ever be a way to slowdown SC2 without the aid of an external program (or running it on a really slow computer lol). That being said, if you prefer to take longer to think out your moves/execute you should probably just pay some turn-based strategy games instead. My personal favorites are the old Heroes of Might of Magic games and the first two Master of Orion games (don't try the third one, it was horrible). The bottom line is, if you're not having fun with Starcraft 2, just play something else that you will like .[/QUOTE

After your logic, all RTS games made until now, included Starcraft 1, was turn based games, and Wings of Liberty is the first RTS invented in this world

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You're missing the thrust of the argument entirely. The thrust is that the game speed is high enough that the ability to issue those micro strategies is more important then what the strategy actually is. Essentially, it's a claim that a good strategy that is executed in a mediocre fashion by a player who's point/click/hotkey skills aren't up to par will lose to a bad strategy executed by an APM master.

Imagine, if you would, a game of chess where you have only 5 seconds to make your turn - however, you can make as many legal moves during your turn as your are physically able to. The strategic element becomes secondary to your piece-moving skills.

Actually, I would argue that they both become extremely important. Moving a shit ton of pieces means NOTHING if those moves are useless. Sure I can move my entire line up to the other side of the board in a single turn, doesn't mean that its a good strategy. And then when the counter attack comes from a guy who is is skilled AND fast, you're boned. I mean, in speed chess, you're limited to a small amount of thinking time for the entire game. So every move has to be done quickly, but every move has a purpose behind it that requires skill to know. They don't just randomly move pieces.

So in Starcraft terms, high APM means nothing if you're not actually DOING anything with it. Pro's have 300 APM because for the first 10 minutes they're warming up, while the rest of the game, they are "painting" their game plan on the board. that 300 APM is all being used to efficiently produce units, issue orders, and tech up. All that APM means something. If you have high APM but no strategy, it just means you're clicking the ground alot while not doing anything.

Cannot use this fine control on high speeds. The visible screen don't jump fast enough from one event to another, the mouse clicks and button pushes take some time to execute the given commands. So, you cannot make enough movements in a unit of time. The problem is exactly cause the keyboard and mouse reaction at given commands are much slower than I think and I move my hands and fingers to use mouse and hotkeys. In campaign, the AI superiority in start resources, in gathering rate, in number and kind of units, the almost continuous massive attack waves, the countdowns, execute anyway a constant time pressure over the player, so anyway you must think and react fast, to be competitive. Otherwise, not fast thinking and reaction are the point, so long you can save and reload the game. The problem is cause that speeds take from you the real time control above your own army, control which DEFINE a RTS. And that make the game more annoying than harder. In multiplayer, that lead at a drastic limitation of usable tactics and strategies. Even the greatest players are forced to use always the same limited ways to play, based on early rushes, so, the existence of most of the units above MMM, helions and eventualy vikings (or the corespondent for other race) become useless in the game. So, at high speeds, in campaign or multiplayer the player cannot use the most of the game resources.
And I don't understand why so many want to limit the liberty of others to make their choices, to play at any speed at they want, so long nobody force themselves to play slower! And if Bliazzard don't want to modify this lack of speed control, I definitely not will buy the next chapter!

Hotkeys. Learn them. It takes me all of 3 seconds to cycle through all my production buildings, queue up units, and macro. I have complete control of everything in the game. Also, yes early rushes exist, but so do hidden techs, proxies, and other strategies designed to counter all in rushes.

For every strategy there is an answer.

 

[jiggyest]

Gerula:
You do have a point when it comes to the Single Player campaign. It doesn't require a lot of strategy to win against the AI. You can just mass marines/medics throughout most of the campaigns (normal/hard/brutal).

The strategy shines in multi-player (ladder) where scouting, harass, build orders, and countering comes into play. As far as speed goes and the required APM, the ladder "tries" to match you with equally skilled players.

Have you tried playing custom games on multi-player? You can set up a match against other people who may also want to play at a slower speed. You guys can even have an agreement to turtle up and not attack until 10 minute mark or something. Then you can strategize all your units to your hearts content.

 

[Yoshi629]

I don't think there will ever be a way to slowdown SC2 without the aid of an external program (or running it on a really slow computer lol). That being said, if you prefer to take longer to think out your moves/execute you should probably just pay some turn-based strategy games instead. My personal favorites are the old Heroes of Might of Magic games and the first two Master of Orion games (don't try the third one, it was horrible). The bottom line is, if you're not having fun with Starcraft 2, just play something else that you will like .[/QUOTE

After your logic, all RTS games made until now, included Starcraft 1, was turn based games, and Wings of Liberty is the first RTS invented in this world

What are you talking about??? I was referring to two different game "genre"'s and suggesting he should play the one he prefers. I never once said anything about other RTS games being turn-based??? Here's some clarification about the two different genres to help you understand, from wiki:

"A turn-based strategy (TBS) game is a strategy game (usually some type of wargame, especially a strategic-level wargame) where players take turns when playing. This is distinguished from real time strategy (RTS) where all players play simultaneously. The phrase refers almost exclusively to video games.

 

[eLiu]

The chess analogy was fucking retarded. For one, being able to make as many moves as you want in a n-second period doesn't make ANY sense given the rules of chess.

As someone who plays speed chess, I can tell you with certainty that being able to move really fast & execute a shitty strategy != winning. But there are times when a player who is down material but up on time can win by making fast moves intended to stall/draw out the game. That doesn't mean people aren't thinking when they play. In timed games, time is another resource, just like army or whatever; and your strategy needs to make optimal use of this resource.

For the people complaining about SC1: did any of you actually PLAY SC1 competitively?! They played on "fastest" speed in SC1 and it was not much different than 'faster' in SC2. SC1 actually put MORE demands on your finger skills since you couldn't do things like waypoint workers, group buildings, etc.

For the people complaining about speed limiting units: Do you actually play SC2?? I don't know what game you're playing, but the higher tech units DO have a place in this game! Go check out some pro games; plenty of people get BCs, carriers, etc. You hardly ever see games where it's only MMM vs zealot/stalker or something. And keep in mind that this game is quite young. Players are still developing new strategies; just look at the how the play styles vary from tournament to tournament. SC2 doesn't really have units that are horrible & useless. Every unit has a place in the game, and a lot of it depends on personal preference.

Speeds does limit some more tactical plays. Like w/o fast fingers, you aren't going to be able to micro-manage attacks on 3 different fronts, or harass every enemy base nearly simultaneously. But to make that a real possibility for ALL players, the game would have to proceed at a snail's pace. This sounds like a design decision made by Blizzard. If you don't like that, go play a game like Total War where you can pause, look around, issue orders, unpause for a few seconds, & repeat. With that style, the battles feel more epic & you really feel like you have exact control over everything, I agree. But you totally lose the frantic, "oh shit we're being overrun!" feeling from missions like 'in utter darkness' in SC2. I love the total war series, but SC and TW are two very different games despite falling under the broad RTS category. Conclusion: what Yoshi said: go play something else that you like more. SC2 isn't bad or deficient b/c it doesn't fit your personal preference.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

The chess analogy was fucking retarded. For one, being able to make as many moves as you want in a n-second period doesn't make ANY sense given the rules of chess.

As someone who plays speed chess, I can tell you with certainty that being able to move really fast & execute a shitty strategy != winning. But there are times when a player who is down material but up on time can win by making fast moves intended to stall/draw out the game. That doesn't mean people aren't thinking when they play. In timed games, time is another resource, just like army or whatever; and your strategy needs to make optimal use of this resource.

I was not talking about speed chess. Being able to make as many moves as you can in an n-second period is a fundamental change to the game - to make it better mimic starcraft, where interface clunkiness, and the ability to overcome it is a major factor in success.



Now, to reiterate a very important point. Speed being locked in multiplayer is NOT what is being discussed. It's speed being locked in single player, and it's only locked because the idiots at Blizzard don't let you rebind keys. This isn't a balance decision, it's flat out failure to deliver basic features. And no, the feature isn't speed control - that's in the keybinding menu, so it's clearly there - but the keybinding menu DOES NOT WORK.

 

[Gerula]

I was not talking about speed chess. Being able to make as many moves as you can in an n-second period is a fundamental change to the game - to make it better mimic starcraft, where interface clunkiness, and the ability to overcome it is a major factor in success.



Now, to reiterate a very important point. Speed being locked in multiplayer is NOT what is being discussed. It's speed being locked in single player, and it's only locked because the idiots at Blizzard don't let you rebind keys. This isn't a balance decision, it's flat out failure to deliver basic features. And no, the feature isn't speed control - that's in the keybinding menu, so it's clearly there - but the keybinding menu DOES NOT WORK.

Entirely agree with you. In multiplayer, the opponent have the same difficulties with you, but in campaign the AI can made how many moves it want in a unit of time, so long you are prevented to give all orders to which you think, your orders are taken very slow (it exist some time interval, not so short, between the moment when you push to a unit or group with hotkeys or mouse and the moment when really you take control above them, and even sometimes some of your orders are ignored (I talk about the order given with Shift-key, especially, that it was happen on THE DIG, with laser drill, and ONLY when I was played online ) And the idiotic idea "Don't like you, play something else" is entirely stupid so long we payed for this game like just like they, and the existence of this feature in campaign not force anybody to use it if they didn't want to do it. My mistake, next time I gonna use only cracked games when it come about Blizzard...

 

[Ben90]

And no, the feature isn't speed control - that's in the keybinding menu, so it's clearly there - but the keybinding menu DOES NOT WORK.

If it really bothers you that much grab an .MPQ editor.

 

[Gerula]

Some of responses are really idiotic! Thread say clearly "on brutal speed is too high, on normal the game is too easy", but some brainless give the advice to play on easiest levels, use hotkeys (like in an arcade game), etc. It's an evidence for a normal person cause a challenging game is not just a game played at stupid rushing speed and under time pressure, it minds in the first place a strong opponent force.