Anyone watch the Dem debate?

[piasabird]

The Scripted debates that the media presents are worthless.

There should be a spin button. When they dont answer a question and go off on a tangent, you press the button and their mike goes dead. Either answer the question or shut up.

 

[wb182]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Obama and Hillary both gave the "I was before the war before I was against it" line, which does weaken their credibility on Iraq. "If I knew then what I know now" is kind of an excuse considering that there was plenty of skepticism about Iraq when Bush started to beat his war drum...that neither chose to question the President then makes me seriously question their authority to question Bush now.

Uh yeah....I think you have pretty severely misrepresented Obama's position on the war. He was one of the few publicly proclaiming what a bad idea it was beforehand.

Hell, it's pretty much the main difference politically between Hillary and Obama.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: wb182

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Obama and Hillary both gave the "I was before the war before I was against it" line, which does weaken their credibility on Iraq. "If I knew then what I know now" is kind of an excuse considering that there was plenty of skepticism about Iraq when Bush started to beat his war drum...that neither chose to question the President then makes me seriously question their authority to question Bush now.

Uh yeah....I think you have pretty severely misrepresented Obama's position on the war. He was one of the few publicly proclaiming what a bad idea it was beforehand.

Hell, it's pretty much the main difference politically between Hillary and Obama.

But he wasn't in the position of voting on it, therefore who knows how he would have actually voted. Basically talk is cheap.

 

[conehead433]

Hillary actually said she didn't vote for the war, which makes me wonder wtf she thought she was actually voting for. Of course she continues to say that if she knew then what she knows now she would not have voted for whatever she thought she was voting for then. If she can't take responsibility for her vote and admit she made a mistake I see her as unelectable. She also apparently changed her position about the need to keep some troops in Iraq. She said in the debate that if this President won't get us out of Iraq that she would when she was President. I'll admit she is a shrewd politician, but if you can't take a stand for what you believe, and change your position as you see which position will benefit you the most you definitely don't need to be President of this country.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: her209
I saw a glimpse and changed the channel when Hillary came on...

:laugh:

I saw only clips from the big candidates (mainly Obama and Hillary) and it was pretty pathetic.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: conehead433
Hillary actually said she didn't vote for the war, which makes me wonder wtf she thought she was actually voting for. Of course she continues to say that if she knew then what she knows now she would not have voted for whatever she thought she was voting for then. If she can't take responsibility for her vote and admit she made a mistake I see her as unelectable. She also apparently changed her position about the need to keep some troops in Iraq. She said in the debate that if this President won't get us out of Iraq that she would when she was President. I'll admit she is a shrewd politician, but if you can't take a stand for what you believe, and change your position as you see which position will benefit you the most you definitely don't need to be President of this country.

A lady from her campaign is on Hardball right now and it seems that Hilliary does still want to keep 'some' forces in Iraq indefinitely. proving further that Hilliary will say anything...

 

[wb182]

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: wb182

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Obama and Hillary both gave the "I was before the war before I was against it" line, which does weaken their credibility on Iraq. "If I knew then what I know now" is kind of an excuse considering that there was plenty of skepticism about Iraq when Bush started to beat his war drum...that neither chose to question the President then makes me seriously question their authority to question Bush now.

Uh yeah....I think you have pretty severely misrepresented Obama's position on the war. He was one of the few publicly proclaiming what a bad idea it was beforehand.

Hell, it's pretty much the main difference politically between Hillary and Obama.

But he wasn't in the position of voting on it, therefore who knows how he would have actually voted. Basically talk is cheap.

I would agree with you if we had no record of his opinions in 2002, but that's simply not true.

This was his speech less than 2 weeks after the original 2002 vote (10/12/02).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

"But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: wb182
"But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

You could have said the exact same thing about the Taliban in 2001 though. They were even less of a threat than Iraq was, but look at what ignoring them and their rule brought us.

If I had told you on 9-10 that Osama was about to kill 3000 Americans and destroy the World Trade Centers you would called me crazy.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: wb182

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: wb182

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Obama and Hillary both gave the "I was before the war before I was against it" line, which does weaken their credibility on Iraq. "If I knew then what I know now" is kind of an excuse considering that there was plenty of skepticism about Iraq when Bush started to beat his war drum...that neither chose to question the President then makes me seriously question their authority to question Bush now.

Uh yeah....I think you have pretty severely misrepresented Obama's position on the war. He was one of the few publicly proclaiming what a bad idea it was beforehand.

Hell, it's pretty much the main difference politically between Hillary and Obama.

But he wasn't in the position of voting on it, therefore who knows how he would have actually voted. Basically talk is cheap.

I would agree with you if we had no record of his opinions in 2002, but that's simply not true.

This was his speech less than 2 weeks after the original 2002 vote (10/12/02).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

"But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

He still did not have to face all of the political crap those in the Senate had to face. He could've said just about anything in 2002 and no one would've cared back then, where as the people in the Senate were being called traitors, etc. So, again, we have no idea how he would have voted faced with that kind of pressure.

I do, however, respect the fact that he was against it back then and said so.

 

[BoberFett]

I didn't watch it, but I have been watching a few clips and now I regret missing it. Gravel was awesome, he's the only Democrat on that stage that didn't make my stomach turn.

Would it be too much to ask for an election next November where we're asked to choose between Gravel and Paul? A couple of guys that speak their mind and aren't afraid to challenge the status quo. The rest of the candidates are just career politicians who stand there and smile like idiots, saying whatever their handlers tell them to say.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: manowar821
Dems and Reps are both liars and they're both evil.

Then why do people stick with them?

Simply rally around a non-career politician for a change and give a chance at saving the Country.

Like Mitt Romney!!

 

[Starbuck1975]

Uh yeah....I think you have pretty severely misrepresented Obama's position on the war. He was one of the few publicly proclaiming what a bad idea it was beforehand.

I was speaking more towards Kucinich's position that Obama has voted in favor of funding for the war, where Kucinich's contention is that if you cut off the Presiden't funding, he essentially has no war to fight.

 

[ericlp]

why watch the debates? It won't make any difference since the ONLY one that is getting into the race will be the one with the most $$.... Mark my word...