Anyone using CAT7?

[Jeff7181]

Just curious if anyone is using CAT7 cable yet. The director of the data center I work in is contemplating switching to CAT7 for all new cable runs due to the power savings made possible by using it. Both our switch and the NICs in our servers are capable.

 

[imagoon]

Power savings?

With class 7 up in the $1+ a foot and all the special tools needed to terminate it properly it is still pretty rare. Add on the .35 inch size of the cable, and copper phys in the 10-15watts / port side I am not sure if there is a major benefit or not. Optical is around 4watts / port and you can fit 16 fibers in the space of ~4 cat 7 cables and not have crosstalk issue.

I will admit that I am not the experienced with cat7 other than seeing some samples. and example panels punched down and the like. The cable was getting pretty large though and it looked like it would be a major pita to pull.

 

[spidey07]

No and I'd avoid. Modern data center designs push the switching out to the cabinet level and everything connected via 10 gig high bandwidth multimode fiber (or twinax depending on distance, but twinax is used inside the rack). The days of pulling all the cable to a single distribution panel are over.

 

[Jeff7181]

Yeah, I wasn't sold on CAT7's power savings but I haven't really researched it myself, and I'm not thrilled about it being shielded.

I think when the time comes, I'll push for having switches in the racks rather than having everything get a home run to the core switch.

 

[mammador]

Cat 7 is available? What is the bandwidth?

 

[Jeff7181]

CAT7 is available at about $1 per foot. It's shielded twisted pair, 600+ MHz and I believe designed mostly for 10GigE over copper with a 100 meter range.

 

[mammador]

is it backward compatible?

 

[imagoon]

is it backward compatible?

Yup.

 

[alkemyst]

IMHO copper trumps fiber for reliability.

New Cat categories are always expensive to early adopters.

However if you are running new cable, it really doesn't make sense to go to less than the best most of the time.

 

[Jeff7181]

IMHO copper trumps fiber for reliability.

New Cat categories are always expensive to early adopters.

However if you are running new cable, it really doesn't make sense to go to less than the best most of the time.

I'm hoping the director doesn't force us to use it. The thickness of the cable and the fact that it's shielded will make it a pain in the arse because all our cabling are home runs to the core switch. No access switches.

 

[imagoon]

Not quite sure why you say copper is more reliable than fiber, installed properly it should out last the data center.

Now if your one of those people that installs it without the armor and zip ties it other cable bundles then you reap what you sow.

 

[imagoon]

I'm hoping the director doesn't force us to use it. The thickness of the cable and the fact that it's shielded will make it a pain in the arse because all our cabling are home runs to the core switch. No access switches.

It would also be overkill. It would cost less to toss a Nexus switch in there and up link 2~howmanyyouneed fibers between it and core.

 

[alkemyst]

Not quite sure why you say copper is more reliable than fiber, installed properly it should out last the data center.

Now if your one of those people that installs it without the armor and zip ties it other cable bundles then you reap what you sow.

not at all, in a controlled data center the experience is WAY different than the average business offices.

It's great to have an isolated server room, but many have this stuff in a closet shared with other things like the pens and paper supplies. Not to mention those modifying their own offices and the like.

 

[Zargon]

I will admit that I am not the experienced with cat7 other than seeing some samples. and example panels punched down and the like. The cable was getting pretty large though and it looked like it would be a major pita to pull.

yup. it reads like a total PITA to use.

just redid my office with Cat6 because cost wise nothing else was worth it.

esp when you have to use plenum, and it will be a long time before anything here besides maybe a san and the switch backbones will do anything but a gig.

 

[imagoon]

not at all, in a controlled data center the experience is WAY different than the average business offices.

It's great to have an isolated server room, but many have this stuff in a closet shared with other things like the pens and paper supplies. Not to mention those modifying their own offices and the like.

Sounds like an office problem. All of the data room stuff was always locked. If for some reason it was a shared space, a locked data cabinet was used. If you are silly enough to give everyone access to the gear then you reap what you sow.

 

[Zargon]

Sounds like an office problem. All of the data room stuff was always locked. If for some reason it was a shared space, a locked data cabinet was used. If you are silly enough to give everyone access to the gear then you reap what you sow.

its often not up to IT. sadly.

 

[imagoon]

its often not up to IT. sadly.

It was up to me. I required that there be an IT lockable cabinet in any shared space that would have IT panels. What is it with the IT guys that roll over and die? I have literally never been told "no, no cabinet" after spending 10 minutes discussing it. A wall mount lockable 19" "IDF" style can be had for $200 or less for a small one, $1000 if for some reason you need like 24u. There was never a need for servers in the IDFs so typically locking cabinets worked fine.

I am not talking about the people that stick the "servers" in some random guys office though. (IE small 3 people shops.)

 

[alkemyst]

It was up to me. I required that there be an IT lockable cabinet in any shared space that would have IT panels. What is it with the IT guys that roll over and die? I have literally never been told "no, no cabinet" after spending 10 minutes discussing it. A wall mount lockable 19" "IDF" style can be had for $200 or less for a small one, $1000 if for some reason you need like 24u. There was never a need for servers in the IDFs so typically locking cabinets worked fine.

I am not talking about the people that stick the "servers" in some random guys office though. (IE small 3 people shops.)

Good luck with that.

ESP in manufacturing for one at the big money end of things.

 

[Zargon]

It was up to me. I required that there be an IT lockable cabinet in any shared space that would have IT panels. What is it with the IT guys that roll over and die? I have literally never been told "no, no cabinet" after spending 10 minutes discussing it. A wall mount lockable 19" "IDF" style can be had for $200 or less for a small one, $1000 if for some reason you need like 24u. There was never a need for servers in the IDFs so typically locking cabinets worked fine.

I am not talking about the people that stick the "servers" in some random guys office though. (IE small 3 people shops.)

not getting your way is not rolling over and dying.

though the one instance I couldnt get the locking cabinet because it 'took up too much space' the people who also used the closet were told 'touch that stuff and you are in serious trouble or fired'

so you do what you can.

 

[spidey07]

I always used the excuse that there were lasers and fiber optics so to keep somebody from damaging their eyes the cabinet must be secured and only authorized/trained people were allowed in.

 

[imagoon]

Good luck with that.

ESP in manufacturing for one at the big money end of things.

I have had great luck with it. I really don't get it. Simply asking and some justification has hit me a 95% success rate. A small 8U mounted on the wall doesn't even take up that much space when mounted high.

 

[alkemyst]

Best practices are always a recommendation. Sadly in most large scale deployments even with budgets in in the ten's of millions, they can't always be implemented effectively.

I have seen perfect fiber runs at deployment only to come back a year later to see someone has balled everything up and jammed it into the copper management conduit.

 

[imagoon]

not getting your way is not rolling over and dying.

though the one instance I couldnt get the locking cabinet because it 'took up too much space' the people who also used the closet were told 'touch that stuff and you are in serious trouble or fired'

so you do what you can.

I didn't say not getting your way. Most business people will listen to you if you give them a valid business reason to buy something (esp in the $200 range where they wonder why you are wasting their time.) Keeping people from screwing with the network gear by buying a cabinet that should last the life of the building or longer is often looked at as a brain dead "yes." To many "IT" people ask and get a no because they ask like this:

I want this for $200.
Why?
Uh because.
"no."

Then again maybe I have never had the luck to work at a truly crappy environment.

Spidey's comment is one good example of a real business need: "$200 will prevent Lucy in accounting from blinding herself and being on workmen's comp for a few decades."

 

[alkemyst]

I have had great luck with it. I really don't get it. Simply asking and some justification has hit me a 95% success rate. A small 8U mounted on the wall doesn't even take up that much space when mounted high.

I don't think you have seen much then. Good luck with a cabinet in a 4x6 pulpit that the guy is already jammed inside. We had enough room for only a 8 port 2960 with magnet mounts to the steel wall. Also in manufacturing you can't always run cables effectively from the 'wall' esp if the warehouse has 50+ foot ceilings and little cable management. We try to get small NEMA enclosures at least, but a lot of times it's got to be just installed on the CNC machine or the like and the cabling dressed at best as possible.

 

[alkemyst]

I didn't say not getting your way. Most business people will listen to you if you give them a valid business reason to buy something (esp in the $200 range where they wonder why you are wasting their time.) Keeping people from screwing with the network gear by buying a cabinet that should last the life of the building or longer is often looked at as a brain dead "yes." To many "IT" people ask and get a no because they ask like this:

I want this for $200.
Why?
Uh because.
"no."

Then again maybe I have never had the luck to work at a truly crappy environment.

Spidey's comment is one good example of a real business need: "$200 will prevent Lucy in accounting from blinding herself and being on workmen's comp for a few decades."

It's bad practice to lie to your customers esp if they are just using LED optics.