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Anyone think Iraq's Air Force will try and fight when we surround Baghdad?

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rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,434
84
91
Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Iraq has some solid aircraft (MiG-29, MiG-25, ect.). I'm wondering if when we surround and begin pounding Baghdad if the Iraqi Air Force will try some sort of suicidal attack against coaltion air forces...
All of Iraq has now been declared a no-fly zone. Anything that would even be able to get in the air would be quickly destroyed.

 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
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Originally posted by: Pastfinder
Iraq has some solid aircraft (MiG-29, MiG-25, ect.). I'm wondering if when we surround and begin pounding Baghdad if the Iraqi Air Force will try some sort of suicidal attack against coaltion air forces...
Should we change the name of suicide tactics like this from 'kamikaze attacks' to 'Dixie Chick attacks'?
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,681
51
91
Its not the 200 aircraft they are reported to have that scares me. Its the 600 helicopters that makes me concerned.

The only warplane they own that stands a chance on its own is the MiG-25, which they probably cannot fly due to lack of parts.
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,711
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ROFLMAO.........it's late and I didn't read the whole thread, but, no way in hell! It would be a suicide mission for them to even take off...........................
 

calpha

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
1,287
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Originally posted by: MadRat
Its not the 200 aircraft they are reported to have that scares me. Its the 600 helicopters that makes me concerned.

The only warplane they own that stands a chance on its own is the MiG-25, which they probably cannot fly due to lack of parts.
The Mig 25 is a bucket of bolts and turns like a land yacht. Mig 29's on teh other hand (especially the later models M I think) can be lethal to our F-15/F16s given the same pilot skill......but only in close quarter combat. Technology wise (avionics systems).....I doubt that theere'd even be a change of a dogfight....

Tehy might try to fly, but any pilot there knows it's suicide to go up.....which, could be their most fearsome asset if they chose to look at it that way. But I doubt a Mig could get any chance of posing a threat....even if they take to Kamikazee style assaults. They'd be blown up before they even got close to coalition forces.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
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A better title would be: "Anyone think Iraq's Air Force will try and commit suicide when we surround Baghdad?"
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,681
51
91
Originally posted by: calpha

The Mig 25 is a bucket of bolts and turns like a land yacht. Mig 29's on teh other hand (especially the later models M I think) can be lethal to our F-15/F16s given the same pilot skill......but only in close quarter combat. Technology wise (avionics systems).....I doubt that theere'd even be a change of a dogfight....

They might try to fly, but any pilot there knows it's suicide to go up.....which, could be their most fearsome asset if they chose to look at it that way. But I doubt a Mig could get any chance of posing a threat....even if they take to Kamikazee style assaults. They'd be blown up before they even got close to coalition forces.
I'm guessing that, without constant retraining, the MiG-29s are probably all incapacitated by now. They never had many MiG-29s and just over two dozen survived the original Gulf War. (Four escaped to Iran despite popular belief that lots of them did!) These aircraft are maintenance nightmares and require a disproportionate amount of expense to remain serviceable. Simpler designs like the MiG-23 and MiG-25 are still flightworthy. The Iraqi air force has conserved the MiG-25 assets since the end of the first Gulf War because of its unique ability to outrun most of the American air defenses, and even earlier this year demonstrated their continued use. They are believed to have a dozen working MiG-25s. The MiG-23s were what they used a few weeks back to intercept the pair of American U-2 spyplanes before the war, so we know some of them are flyable. It is believed that six dozen are available with one-quarter to one-third of them in working order.

What they have that is futile is a variety of old MiG, Xian, and Sukhoi aircraft. The french probably kept them furnished with parts for their five-and-a-half dozen Mirage F1s; and one pair intercepted one of the U-2s I mentioned earlier. They also have alot of MiG-21's, 120 made up of various export versions from China and Russia, that are likely to be flyable for some time. They also have a hand full of Sukhoi aircraft (Su-7/20/22) that are all likely out of spare parts because they had so many unique types and hardly any of one model. A little over a dozen Su-25s survived the Gulf War and a few may be flyable, but again they probably don't have the parts for them. None of the 9 medium bobmers in their inventory, from Tu-16s to Tu-22s are likely flyable. (Luckily two dozen Su-24s flew the coop to Iran for us!)

I don't believe the F1s or MiG-21/J7s are a large threat because of their limited ability to carry bombloads and the inventory of air-intercept missiles they are known to own. A majority of their air-intercept missiles are duds by now, at least as far as being in working order. The newest ones are very low performance models, making them a low threat on the grand scheme. Even if they had newer models the F1s they bought are very limited (optimized for ground attack) and their MiG-21/J7s are not exactly equipped for dogfights. (The MiG-21s only shot down a few Iranian F-4s in dogfights because the latter would try to retreat from gun engagements ignoring the missiles carried by the MiGs.)

The leadership has organized their fighters into just fourteen total sqaudrons, with half for ground attack and another for reconn, leaving very few for a role of intercept/air supremacy. They also treat fighters as fighter-bomber destroyers (pure interceptors) making it unlikely that they'd try to engage American planes in head-to-head combat. American pilots were surprised by the total lack of initiative by Iraqi pilots during the Gulf War. When Iraqi pilots improvised many flew into the ground, being totally unfamiliar with the concepts of air supremacy. (One American pilot did the same, his training being specialized for a ground attack role.) Its really easy to lose ones spatial awareness in air combat if a pilot hasn't been trained how to maintain himself.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
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I think the bumper to bumper warranty has expired on most of thier fleet.
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
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Originally posted by: mastertech01
I think the bumper to bumper warranty has expired on most of thier fleet.
I think the original designers for most of their fleet have expired
 

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