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anyone think ATI's triumph will be short lived?

O

otispunkmeyer

Lifer
sure this has already been through this forum and is now a million pages away gathering dust.....but ATI's card is running 520mhz.....the theortical limit for greater than 150million trannies on 0.13 is bout 600mhz........nvidia isnt too far behind and theyre only at 400mhz....if the cards were equal speeds i think NV would win and then ATI would claw back abit with AA and AF

i think wen Nv's manufacturing matures i think theyll have ATI out for the count
 
performance has nothing to do with creativity . Creativity is for the game developers. Performance is dependant on the science. Without good science ,performance wil choke. 😀
 
I wouldn't call ATI's current offerings a triumph... nor nVidia's. One can comment on the potential of each one... but as of now, there's really nothing to base a final decision on. Everyone's been saying they're buying an x800XT or a 6800GT or whatever... well, you haven't seen either of those in retail form... you can't buy them yet... and you haven't seen anything else that ATI or nVidia might decide to do. Nor have you seen the impact of PCI-Express. So... calling anything a triumph right now is a bit premature.

I don't think we've seen the best from either company yet... as the OP pointed out, nVidia has a lock of clock speed headroom theoretically... but theoretically so did AMD with the Athlon XP. The number of transistors and the manufacturing process aren't the only factors in determining the maximum clock speed. Heck, don't be surprised if ATI pushes 700 Mhz with an x800XT refresh by the end of the year... I very highly doubt they'd start out at the TOP of their clock speed range.
 
Originally posted by: ShinX
Actually , I heard that they've been testing a 700 mhz proto already......
Click to expand...

No offense to you, but a lot of people hear a lot of things. Although this isn't hard to believe... since they're the only ones who seem to be using low k... maybe they know something about it that others don't. Maybe by using that, they're able to scale clock frequencies higher than everyone expects.
 
Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
sure this has already been through this forum and is now a million pages away gathering dust.....but ATI's card is running 520mhz.....the theortical limit for greater than 150million trannies on 0.13 is bout 600mhz........nvidia isnt too far behind and theyre only at 400mhz....if the cards were equal speeds i think NV would win and then ATI would claw back abit with AA and AF

i think wen Nv's manufacturing matures i think theyll have ATI out for the count
Click to expand...


Everyone also said 325mhz was beyond what .15 could manage also. ATI took it to over 400. I would not be surprised if ATI and Nvidia both approach or pass 600mhz with some lower transistor variation of their current products. In fact ATI's 9600xt cores could easily pass 600mhz with volt modding.

The difference you are seeing with ATI's and Nvidia's speed on their latest cores are dictated by the memory bandwidth and shader efficiency for both. Nvidia may be able to push more pixels per clock, but they don't look as good when it comes to memory conservation or shader efficiency. Nvidia need DX9c to even up the pot with PS3 and VS3 as long as their hardware truly runs it fast, even then when memory bandwidth comes into play you will see ATI catch and possibly surpass them.

The difference you are seeing between the NV40 and x800xt now at low res is basically ATI having drivers that are more CPU dependant. If ATI can close that gap I have no idea, but it has nothing to do with Nvidia being able to push more pixels per clock.
 
Based on the past 2 years, I'm not counting ATi out anytime soon. NV40 was a step in the right direction, but they're still just clawing back.
 
I think ATI's engineers are more talented than Nvidia's. And I tend to think they have the better future in the graphics card market.
 
When Nvidia's drivers mature and they iron out the AF kinks, I expect the 6800 series to properly outdo the X800 series. It will only be by a small margin (about how X800 cards are now), but I think it's inevitable nonetheless.
 
Originally posted by: Rudee
I think ATI's engineers are more talented than Nvidia's. And I tend to think they have the better future in the graphics card market.
Click to expand...


How can you come to that conclusion???
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: ShinX
Actually , I heard that they've been testing a 700 mhz proto already......
Click to expand...

No offense to you, but a lot of people hear a lot of things. Although this isn't hard to believe... since they're the only ones who seem to be using low k... maybe they know something about it that others don't. Maybe by using that, they're able to scale clock frequencies higher than everyone expects.
Click to expand...

They actually had the x800 XT overclocked to 715 MHz with some exotic cooling? Maybe with some maturity in the manufacturing, this could be a reality? 😉

Edit... forgot my link 🙂 Anand News
 
Originally posted by: Rudee
I think ATI's engineers are more talented than Nvidia's. And I tend to think they have the better future in the graphics card market.
Click to expand...

Oh MY!!! You really have no clue, do you? :roll: Perhaps you would like to meet some of them.
 
There is another option not mentioned yet: ATi figures out how to increase performance under OpenGL... If this happens in this generation, it could be a big win for them.

from http://www.opengl.org/
Recent OpenGL Job Openings
º OpenGL/ VTK programmer
º OpenGL/C++ developer for video
º S/W driver Engineer - ATI
º 3D logic designer - ATI
º 3D graphics R&D
º Expert OpenGL programmer
º Driver Developer - ATI
º Senior Tools Engineer
º OpenGL and Delphi developer
» View all classifieds
Click to expand...

It looks like they might be staffing up for just that.
 
R400, NV40. PFFT. Next gen Matrox is where it's at! 😛

I don't think you can reliably call this a "triumph", mostly because it seems that all the cards at the high end will be available in large quantities (unlike the FX5950U), and because the performance of both cards is pretty well equal. I'd say the scales tip towards NVidia in the features department, but I was surprised at the lack of reviews involving the MPEG-2 encoder that was supposed to be packaged up with the NV40s.
 
All I see is a card that is 125Mhz slower winning 50% of the benchmarks.

I think it is safe to safe at this moment the Nvidia card is more effcient.
 
I don't think there will be a triumph this generation at all. The last 2 years, both the 5800 and 5900 series really were not up to par with the 9700 and 9800 series of cards. But these are far too close to have a real winner.
 
Originally posted by: chsh1ca
R400, NV40. PFFT. Next gen Matrox is where it's at! 😛

I don't think you can reliably call this a "triumph", mostly because it seems that all the cards at the high end will be available in large quantities (unlike the FX5950U), and because the performance of both cards is pretty well equal. I'd say the scales tip towards NVidia in the features department, but I was surprised at the lack of reviews involving the MPEG-2 encoder that was supposed to be packaged up with the NV40s.
Click to expand...


Last time Matrox tried that they hurt themselves badly
 
There's some guys over at futuremark who are running 700+ on the early X800 Pro cores. They use some exotic cooling for sure but it's promising none-the-less.
 
I don't think Nvidia can win this round. They did come back with a good product, but in newer games ATI still shows its upperhand and occasional dominance due to shader and memory efficiency. ATI's card is an older design but still more balanced.

I believe from looking at all the benchmarks everywhere that ATI's drivers have not taken full advantage of their new design yet. In some non AA and AF lower res benchmarks, their older 9800xt was actually outgunning them. That shows that the drivers are not taking advantage of the new hardware. Nvidia can be hit and miss this generation. On one hand their drivers are still running games in fp16 mode for shader dependant games, once they correct the shaders for PS3 they will be forced to run at 32bit. Will the lesser workload and efficiency of running ps3 be enough to compensate for having to run in full precision almost all the time? Only time will tell. But in some situations we may actually see lower performance once they fix their driver issues.

I see it all wrapped up this way. I believe ATI's design will give very strong performance no matter what the game. I believe Nvidia has the potential to be very strong at everything, but it still shows signs of weaker shader speed and memory performance at high detail.
 
I think ATI already won this round, easily.

A. Performance is comparable, win some lose some.

B. They're shipping significantly earlier than nvidia.




Doesn't matter how good nvidia's offering is, if you can't actually buy it yet. Early adopters are jumping on the x800pro, and will be telling everybody how great the card is.
 
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