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Anyone see today's Oprah?

blackangst1

blackangst1

Lifer
We all know NK is a closed society with a ruthless dictator. I guess I never comprehended how bad it is till I saw this piece.

She entered with an eye surgeon posing as his assistant. She was the only American in the group, and the border guards informed her she currently the ONLY American in NK (whoa). She was never ever let out of site by her "chaperones". Not one minute. Aside from visiting the hospital/patients, they werent allowed to leave the hotel, with one exception. They were allowed to visit the home of someone who was scheduled to receive cataract surgery (thus the reason for the visit), and initially they were told no. They finally made a case they need to see how a blind person's house is set up or some such thing. This person receiving surgery has been blind for 10 years. Aside from very sparse furnishings, the ONLY pictures on the walls (EVERY wall BTW) are of "The Great Leader" (Kim Jung Ill). There was a TV, however there are only TWO television stations in NK and both are controlled by the government. There are three radio stations, again, controlled by the governemnt. They play no western music.

Lisa was able to film a few minutes of driving around, and there was really no traffic or people walking around. The only pictures or ads you see are of "The Great Leader". That's it. Nothing else. An assistant was taking pictures (each one of which had to be approved by an escort), and he wanted to get a picture of one of the endless statues of Kim. He layed down on the ground to get the whole statue in the pic, and was IMMEDIATELY accosted by the chaperones yelling YOU DO NOT LIE DOWN IN THE PRESENSE OF OUR GREAT LEADER! (wow)

It is rumored that Kim himself has the only computer in the country, and of course there is no internet. None anywhere. In fact, the general population doesnt even know what a computer or the internet actually IS.

When the surgeries for cateracts were done in the hospital, and when people removed their bandages, the FIRST thing they did is kneel down in front of the nearest Kim picture, raise their hands to it, and thank him. Not the surgeons, but Kim. Wow.

It was very very eye opening. I dont think we have a clue how oppressing that country actually is. It's simply amazing how a government can control people that way. It is widely known in NK that they are "still at war with the USA"...the Korean war never ended.

China looks like paradise in comparison.

Which brings me to a difficult question. How do you liberate a country like that? How do you open the minds of a population of millions of people who know nothing different?

I believe Oprah re-runs at night, so you might want to take a look. It will definately open your eyes.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
We all know NK is a closed society with a ruthless dictator. I guess I never comprehended how bad it is till I saw this piece.

She entered with an eye surgeon posing as his assistant. She was the only American in the group, and the border guards informed her she currently the ONLY American in NK (whoa). She was never ever let out of site by her "chaperones". Not one minute. Aside from visiting the hospital/patients, they werent allowed to leave the hotel, with one exception. They were allowed to visit the home of someone who was scheduled to receive cataract surgery (thus the reason for the visit), and initially they were told no. They finally made a case they need to see how a blind person's house is set up or some such thing. This person receiving surgery has been blind for 10 years. Aside from very sparse furnishings, the ONLY pictures on the walls (EVERY wall BTW) are of "The Great Leader" (Kim Jung Ill). There was a TV, however there are only TWO television stations in NK and both are controlled by the government. There are three radio stations, again, controlled by the governemnt. They play no western music.

Lisa was able to film a few minutes of driving around, and there was really no traffic or people walking around. The only pictures or ads you see are of "The Great Leader". That's it. Nothing else. An assistant was taking pictures (each one of which had to be approved by an escort), and he wanted to get a picture of one of the endless statues of Kim. He layed down on the ground to get the whole statue in the pic, and was IMMEDIATELY accosted by the chaperones yelling YOU DO NOT LIE DOWN IN THE PRESENSE OF OUR GREAT LEADER! (wow)

It is rumored that Kim himself has the only computer in the country, and of course there is no internet. None anywhere. In fact, the general population doesnt even know what a computer or the internet actually IS.

When the surgeries for cateracts were done in the hospital, and when people removed their bandages, the FIRST thing they did is kneel down in front of the nearest Kim picture, raise their hands to it, and thank him. Not the surgeons, but Kim. Wow.

It was very very eye opening. I dont think we have a clue how oppressing that country actually is. It's simply amazing how a government can control people that way. It is widely known in NK that they are "still at war with the USA"...the Korean war never ended.

China looks like paradise in comparison.

Which brings me to a difficult question. How do you liberate a country like that? How do you open the minds of a population of millions of people who know nothing different?

I believe Oprah re-runs at night, so you might want to take a look. It will definately open your eyes.
Click to expand...

So what? China was like that 20 years ago, and who is to say NK won't become like China in the next 20~30 years if other countries, starting from US, allow them to open up trade/economy. China government may still suck, but Chinese people are seeing the outside world and will one day want political freedom along with the economical freedom they currently enjoy. Another good example why we don't need to deal with Kim, but can try to help open up NK economically and hoping the NK people will one day deal with Kim and his communist party.
 
China was like the way NK is now 20 years ago? Your crazy. Do you even know how it is over there in North Korea?
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: blackangst1
We all know NK is a closed society with a ruthless dictator. I guess I never comprehended how bad it is till I saw this piece.

She entered with an eye surgeon posing as his assistant. She was the only American in the group, and the border guards informed her she currently the ONLY American in NK (whoa). She was never ever let out of site by her "chaperones". Not one minute. Aside from visiting the hospital/patients, they werent allowed to leave the hotel, with one exception. They were allowed to visit the home of someone who was scheduled to receive cataract surgery (thus the reason for the visit), and initially they were told no. They finally made a case they need to see how a blind person's house is set up or some such thing. This person receiving surgery has been blind for 10 years. Aside from very sparse furnishings, the ONLY pictures on the walls (EVERY wall BTW) are of "The Great Leader" (Kim Jung Ill). There was a TV, however there are only TWO television stations in NK and both are controlled by the government. There are three radio stations, again, controlled by the governemnt. They play no western music.

Lisa was able to film a few minutes of driving around, and there was really no traffic or people walking around. The only pictures or ads you see are of "The Great Leader". That's it. Nothing else. An assistant was taking pictures (each one of which had to be approved by an escort), and he wanted to get a picture of one of the endless statues of Kim. He layed down on the ground to get the whole statue in the pic, and was IMMEDIATELY accosted by the chaperones yelling YOU DO NOT LIE DOWN IN THE PRESENSE OF OUR GREAT LEADER! (wow)

It is rumored that Kim himself has the only computer in the country, and of course there is no internet. None anywhere. In fact, the general population doesnt even know what a computer or the internet actually IS.

When the surgeries for cateracts were done in the hospital, and when people removed their bandages, the FIRST thing they did is kneel down in front of the nearest Kim picture, raise their hands to it, and thank him. Not the surgeons, but Kim. Wow.

It was very very eye opening. I dont think we have a clue how oppressing that country actually is. It's simply amazing how a government can control people that way. It is widely known in NK that they are "still at war with the USA"...the Korean war never ended.

China looks like paradise in comparison.

Which brings me to a difficult question. How do you liberate a country like that? How do you open the minds of a population of millions of people who know nothing different?

I believe Oprah re-runs at night, so you might want to take a look. It will definately open your eyes.
Click to expand...

So what? China was like that 20 years ago, and who is to say NK won't become like China in the next 20~30 years if other countries, starting from US, allow them to open up trade/economy. China government may still suck, but Chinese people are seeing the outside world and will one day want political freedom along with the economical freedom they currently enjoy. Another good example why we don't need to deal with Kim, but can try to help open up NK economically and hoping the NK people will one day deal with Kim and his communist party.
Click to expand...

Dude youre outta your mind if you think China was this closed.

As far as opening up trade let me ask you this: What in the world does NK have to trade? NOTHING. At least China has natural resources.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
As far as opening up trade let me ask you this: What in the world does NK have to trade? NOTHING. At least China has natural resources.
Click to expand...

Oh, they've got great items for trade. Fake American currency, drugs, and nuclear weaponry!
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: blackangst1
We all know NK is a closed society with a ruthless dictator. I guess I never comprehended how bad it is till I saw this piece.

She entered with an eye surgeon posing as his assistant. She was the only American in the group, and the border guards informed her she currently the ONLY American in NK (whoa). She was never ever let out of site by her "chaperones". Not one minute. Aside from visiting the hospital/patients, they werent allowed to leave the hotel, with one exception. They were allowed to visit the home of someone who was scheduled to receive cataract surgery (thus the reason for the visit), and initially they were told no. They finally made a case they need to see how a blind person's house is set up or some such thing. This person receiving surgery has been blind for 10 years. Aside from very sparse furnishings, the ONLY pictures on the walls (EVERY wall BTW) are of "The Great Leader" (Kim Jung Ill). There was a TV, however there are only TWO television stations in NK and both are controlled by the government. There are three radio stations, again, controlled by the governemnt. They play no western music.

Lisa was able to film a few minutes of driving around, and there was really no traffic or people walking around. The only pictures or ads you see are of "The Great Leader". That's it. Nothing else. An assistant was taking pictures (each one of which had to be approved by an escort), and he wanted to get a picture of one of the endless statues of Kim. He layed down on the ground to get the whole statue in the pic, and was IMMEDIATELY accosted by the chaperones yelling YOU DO NOT LIE DOWN IN THE PRESENSE OF OUR GREAT LEADER! (wow)

It is rumored that Kim himself has the only computer in the country, and of course there is no internet. None anywhere. In fact, the general population doesnt even know what a computer or the internet actually IS.

When the surgeries for cateracts were done in the hospital, and when people removed their bandages, the FIRST thing they did is kneel down in front of the nearest Kim picture, raise their hands to it, and thank him. Not the surgeons, but Kim. Wow.

It was very very eye opening. I dont think we have a clue how oppressing that country actually is. It's simply amazing how a government can control people that way. It is widely known in NK that they are "still at war with the USA"...the Korean war never ended.

China looks like paradise in comparison.

Which brings me to a difficult question. How do you liberate a country like that? How do you open the minds of a population of millions of people who know nothing different?

I believe Oprah re-runs at night, so you might want to take a look. It will definately open your eyes.
Click to expand...

So what? China was like that 20 years ago, and who is to say NK won't become like China in the next 20~30 years if other countries, starting from US, allow them to open up trade/economy. China government may still suck, but Chinese people are seeing the outside world and will one day want political freedom along with the economical freedom they currently enjoy. Another good example why we don't need to deal with Kim, but can try to help open up NK economically and hoping the NK people will one day deal with Kim and his communist party.
Click to expand...

Dude youre outta your mind if you think China was this closed.

As far as opening up trade let me ask you this: What in the world does NK have to trade? NOTHING. At least China has natural resources.
Click to expand...


He is a Chinese Apologist.. How he could just not give a damn about what is happening today and just claim that it will be better in 10 or 20 years is beyond me..

People are tortured and abused daily in that disgusting shithole called North Korea..

Read about what they do to people who try to escape to live in a democratic country.. as if a country owns the people and not the other way around
 
You barely even scratched the surface on how bad it is there. Here is a documentary on children in NK, 45 minutes of footage and narration. It is really, really, really bad.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6951629397402742053

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Which brings me to a difficult question. How do you liberate a country like that? How do you open the minds of a population of millions of people who know nothing different?
Click to expand...

The same way you change an evangelical into a liberal... you don't. Realistically the only thing one can do is expose the other side to their ideas and hope they change, there really isn't another way.
 
The CBC has been doing regular reports out of NK recently and it is rather bleak. Some of the things of note:

1) absolutely no Farm machinery. All Agricultural products are transported by hand(carriers use trains for longer distances).

2) No cell phones(they are banned)

3) Kim Jong is definitely the only thing to be seen as far as Posters/Billboards are concerned(was the same way in the USSR and other "Communist" nations of the past)

4) Everyone professes their "love" for Kim Jong

5) NKs have no clue what the outside world is like

Very interesting Reports, but not unlike the USSR of 20-30 years ago.
 
I just got back from Ethiopia and i saw kids 3 times worse than these. And it was not because of sanctions. The US/UK have issues they need to take care of regarding Trade Laws and the WTO. If we really care about kids changing some of the practices of the WTO and US subsidies is what really would reduce things like this in many places across the globe. (ie, Jamaica cant sell bananas in US/EU, Ethiopian farmers get 3 cents per kilo of coffee) The police state stories are horrible but These kids arent even skinny. And there are still worse places around the globe than NK.


North Korea picture blog with captions.
 
Thank you for this post.

I was trying to explain to some people in one of the Nuke threads just how bad NK really is.

Some seems to think that if we just talk with him and get them to "open up" then all will be better.

I think what the report/story you talk about shows that they don't want to open up. That Kim keeps his power by keeping his people blind to what life is like outside of NK.

What a mess.
 
IIRC, CNN had a high quality documentary on life in the DPRK produced by dissidents and I believe a Korean-American journalist last year. But in typical MSM fashion they are replaying it this week as if its something new.

It actually paints an even bleaker picture of life in the DPRK. But unlike the Ling/Oprah fluff, it actually delves into the political reality of the complicated relationship with China and how regime change will never happen without China.

CNN
CNN Presents Undercover in the Secret State
 
Sadly, Santions against N. Korea will only make life for the N. Korean people even worse than it already is---as it is N. Korea does not have the agricultural production
to feed its people.---and most years are drought years.

But it looks like China will veto any kind of forced regime change---so santions are likely to be the probable result. As N. Korea sinks deeper into isolation.

I won't advoacte assassination---but with luck Kim Jung LL will die of natural causes soon---or get overthrown in a military coup---and then there may be some hope for N. Korea.
 
Who's to say Kim won't appoint another lunatic just like himself to take over when he goes?

Given the nuclear threat that NK is now possessing, I am starting to shift my views on an assassination attempt against Kim. I think it would be for the better of humanity if he weren't on this planet.
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: blackangst1
We all know NK is a closed society with a ruthless dictator. I guess I never comprehended how bad it is till I saw this piece.

She entered with an eye surgeon posing as his assistant. She was the only American in the group, and the border guards informed her she currently the ONLY American in NK (whoa). She was never ever let out of site by her "chaperones". Not one minute. Aside from visiting the hospital/patients, they werent allowed to leave the hotel, with one exception. They were allowed to visit the home of someone who was scheduled to receive cataract surgery (thus the reason for the visit), and initially they were told no. They finally made a case they need to see how a blind person's house is set up or some such thing. This person receiving surgery has been blind for 10 years. Aside from very sparse furnishings, the ONLY pictures on the walls (EVERY wall BTW) are of "The Great Leader" (Kim Jung Ill). There was a TV, however there are only TWO television stations in NK and both are controlled by the government. There are three radio stations, again, controlled by the governemnt. They play no western music.

Lisa was able to film a few minutes of driving around, and there was really no traffic or people walking around. The only pictures or ads you see are of "The Great Leader". That's it. Nothing else. An assistant was taking pictures (each one of which had to be approved by an escort), and he wanted to get a picture of one of the endless statues of Kim. He layed down on the ground to get the whole statue in the pic, and was IMMEDIATELY accosted by the chaperones yelling YOU DO NOT LIE DOWN IN THE PRESENSE OF OUR GREAT LEADER! (wow)

It is rumored that Kim himself has the only computer in the country, and of course there is no internet. None anywhere. In fact, the general population doesnt even know what a computer or the internet actually IS.

When the surgeries for cateracts were done in the hospital, and when people removed their bandages, the FIRST thing they did is kneel down in front of the nearest Kim picture, raise their hands to it, and thank him. Not the surgeons, but Kim. Wow.

It was very very eye opening. I dont think we have a clue how oppressing that country actually is. It's simply amazing how a government can control people that way. It is widely known in NK that they are "still at war with the USA"...the Korean war never ended.

China looks like paradise in comparison.

Which brings me to a difficult question. How do you liberate a country like that? How do you open the minds of a population of millions of people who know nothing different?

I believe Oprah re-runs at night, so you might want to take a look. It will definately open your eyes.
Click to expand...

So what? China was like that 20 years ago, and who is to say NK won't become like China in the next 20~30 years if other countries, starting from US, allow them to open up trade/economy. China government may still suck, but Chinese people are seeing the outside world and will one day want political freedom along with the economical freedom they currently enjoy. Another good example why we don't need to deal with Kim, but can try to help open up NK economically and hoping the NK people will one day deal with Kim and his communist party.
Click to expand...

ya think or ya just dreaming??
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
The CBC has been doing regular reports out of NK recently and it is rather bleak. Some of the things of note:

1) absolutely no Farm machinery. All Agricultural products are transported by hand(carriers use trains for longer distances).

2) No cell phones(they are banned)

3) Kim Jong is definitely the only thing to be seen as far as Posters/Billboards are concerned(was the same way in the USSR and other "Communist" nations of the past)

4) Everyone professes their "love" for Kim Jong

5) NKs have no clue what the outside world is like

Very interesting Reports, but not unlike the USSR of 20-30 years ago.[/q]

not hardly
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
The CBC has been doing regular reports out of NK recently and it is rather bleak. Some of the things of note:

1) absolutely no Farm machinery. All Agricultural products are transported by hand(carriers use trains for longer distances).

2) No cell phones(they are banned)

3) Kim Jong is definitely the only thing to be seen as far as Posters/Billboards are concerned(was the same way in the USSR and other "Communist" nations of the past)

4) Everyone professes their "love" for Kim Jong

5) NKs have no clue what the outside world is like

Very interesting Reports, but not unlike the USSR of 20-30 years ago.
Click to expand...


not unlike the ussr?

1. soviet union had farm machinery out the ass

3. USSR didn't just have billboards of stalin. of course there wasnt really adverts, but i'm sure you can figure out why. although there was some. aeroflot for example. billboards were sometimes health and general info things, i.e. dont drink, etc.

4. I don't recall many russians bowing to pictures of brezhnev.

russians used the normal calendar, not that juche stuff.
they had food, shelter, (limited) consumer goods, industry, international trade, first satellite, first man in space, etc.
etc. etc.


 
Originally posted by: Colt45
Originally posted by: sandorski
The CBC has been doing regular reports out of NK recently and it is rather bleak. Some of the things of note:

1) absolutely no Farm machinery. All Agricultural products are transported by hand(carriers use trains for longer distances).

2) No cell phones(they are banned)

3) Kim Jong is definitely the only thing to be seen as far as Posters/Billboards are concerned(was the same way in the USSR and other "Communist" nations of the past)

4) Everyone professes their "love" for Kim Jong

5) NKs have no clue what the outside world is like

Very interesting Reports, but not unlike the USSR of 20-30 years ago.
Click to expand...


not unlike the ussr?

1. soviet union had farm machinery out the ass

3. USSR didn't just have billboards of stalin. of course there wasnt really adverts, but i'm sure you can figure out why. although there was some. aeroflot for example. billboards were sometimes health and general info things, i.e. dont drink, etc.

4. I don't recall many russians bowing to pictures of brezhnev.

russians used the normal calendar, not that juche stuff.
they had food, shelter, (limited) consumer goods, industry, international trade, first satellite, first man in space, etc.
etc. etc.
Click to expand...

You got me on the farm machinery and better technology, but the rest is quite true.
 
This is why China is protecting their little baby communist state below them.. They need to protect Communism (repression and lack of human rights) in the world ..
 
I always wonder how a country like China makes up most human being in this world are able to get pin down by a government... I mean, if the people China would rebel against the leaders, most likely they probably would win. But of course the leaders would use nukes/etc.. against there own people.. But how can government sustain it self without the people? I guess fear of dying is more powerful than being free or they like being told when to crap or when to go to sleep... this may apply NK or maybe not.
 
OMG, could you imagine how the Left and media would react if Bush sent in an assasination attempt on Kim?
 
Originally posted by: mc00
I always wonder how a country like China makes up most human being in this world are able to get pin down by a government... I mean, if the people China would rebel against the leaders, most likely they probably would win. But of course the leaders would use nukes/etc.. against there own people.. But how can government sustain it self without the people? I guess fear of dying is more powerful than being free or they like being told when to crap or when to go to sleep... this may apply NK or maybe not.
Click to expand...

For the most part I think it's because to them(the People) things seem better than they were. In many ways that is true, in other ways things haven't changed much.
 
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