Anyone running all SCSI? Is it worth it?

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Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
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Another advantage of SCSI drives:

You never have to wonder "is my drive running in ATA-66 or not?"
No special drivers or workarounds for most OS's as long as you're not using a weird card.

Also, it's 15 devices total, including the card. On narrow cards it's 7 devices total, with possible ID's, the card just takes up one. Well on a wide card, the card still takes up one so you add another 8, and don't subtract any from that, thus...15
 

dl

Banned
Oct 29, 1999
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I think the newest adaptec scsi card support 30 devices (dual channel..)
 

Radboy

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
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As far as HDDs go, u'll not find many who say, 'I got this new 10K-spindle U160 beast & it sucked. I sold it heatnet'

My buddy just sold (used) 18GB 36LZX for $250 .. & got X15.

I've only ever heard of *one* person say they didn't feel it was worth it, but he was referencing 4-yr-old technology vs current ATA66. And he was a dick, too. :)

Work the cost/GB ratio by buying only what u need to run o/s, apps & swap. Load up on IDE for stoarge.

Booting from 10K SCSI (far) exceeded my expectations, which is why it's easy to get enthusiastic about. You will think u died & went to heaven. :D

If u have have the jack, X15 is the way to go. You will not regret. Don't think they make 9GB model. Don't get 80-pin.
 

RagingGuardian

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2000
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I want to go SCSI since I can get a good deal on two 9Gb drives but the price of the RAID card is holding me back. One 9Gb drive is just toooo small.
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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no I don't own one, BUT I've used one.. ohhh HELL YA!

here's the whole situation in my eyes when it comes to IDE vs SCSI:

SCSI, is what Windows was designed for, of vice versa. you have hundreds of .dll files making up your OS (whether Windows 2K, or even Windows 9x, even Linux has .dll equivalents). do you think it requires high transfer rates to get all those tiny .dll files dancing? no, by the time your drive gets ahold of the .dll file, it's pretty much completed transferring (ok, not necessarily THAT fast, but close to that), and [/b]then[/b] is when your drives seek time comes in. your computer has to then find the NEXT .dll file to read. THAT is what the majority of IDE drives are poor at. Windows. plain and simple.

SCSI drives have insanely low access times, becuase they each have a really thin platters. think of it this way, any normal CD has a pretty wide area to scan across right? well if you want to decrease the average seek time, you must either increase the head speed, or decrease the length the head has to travel to get anywhere on the disk. SCSI of course has the best read head speed available, and to improve upon that, they also make the platter thinner. thinner in that the more central area of the platter that might normally have data, is now data-less. thereby leaving an outer rim of useable platter, which is thinner then what it would be normally on, say, an IDE drive.

ok now that I've explained why disk access speed is important, and how they achieve it, I'll explain a few other things..

SCSI of course gives you almost fully CPU independant use. that means its VERY good at disk intensive operations, because it doesn't slow the computer down when it comes to crunch time. so you can expect better abilities to do things while burning CD's, or while loading large programs, etc.

SCSI also solves some problems when it comes to pure transfer rate (should u need it), by having insane RPM rates.. of course, that also increases noise, and heat, trivial things that should be easily solved if you have the money to spend on SCSI.

SCSI also of course has the ability to run many more devices on a single controller, without having to worry about losing performance (until you hit the bandwidth max, but there's no having to switch between drive to drive with IDE giving you HORRIBLE performance). this allows for much higher flexibility, and better upgradeability.

and finally, having an All SCSI system, allows you to free up IRQ's taken by the IDE channels. of course u NFS4 don't seem to worry about that, becuase u have Win2K.

disadvantages of SCSI are as follows:
-expensive
-even MORE expensive if you want a lot of SCSI storage
-trivial things such as heat, and noise (I personally barely care about it :p)

you CAN solve many of the problems when it comes to storage space on SCSI by using your CDBurner effectively (for your MP3's, Videos, etc), or by having an IDE drive (I'm thinking one of those 80 giggers..) for things that don't require too much speed.

now you CAN just transfer over to SCSI slowly instead of going for a one shot deal.. buying a SCSI card, and SCSI CD hard drive would be my first move, however for you, it appears a CD burner might be better (reducing the amount of IDE devices faster). then you eventually bring it down to your SCSI hard drive, SCSI CD burner, possibly SCSI DVD ROM, and finally your Mass media IDE drive, or something similar.
 

*kjm

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Soccerman

As far as the noise you can get rid of it like I did. I got a server case with 10 fans in it and I no longer hear the SCSI drives....problem solved:)
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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"As far as the noise you can get rid of it like I did. I got a server case with 10 fans in it and I no longer hear the SCSI drives....problem solved"

exactly! hehe.. kill 2 birds with one stone. heat and hard drive noise! lol..

why am I not worried about computer noise? I use headphones, and sometimes use speakers. even when I use speakers I barely hear the computer in the first place. it's just there.
 

dl

Banned
Oct 29, 1999
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my fan noise still bothers me...but I don't care anymore...

it used to drive me crazy with all this cooling so I decided to take out all my fans 'cept the PS of course and the cpu fan. well, guess what? yes it's quieter, but I can still hear the fans! so, I went back to 7 fans because it doesn't make a difference to me if I hear 2 fans or 7, I still hear noise!

besides, if you do anything to your computer that involves your speakers then you don't even hear your fans anyways...that's my take on the noise issue...

as for HDD noise...I'd much rather hear something going on than to hear nothing at all...keeps me sane and all...
 

crazyjoekuta

Senior member
Sep 3, 2000
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i'm low on cash right now... i am going to get an ibm deskstar 75gxp ata/100 w/ a raid or no raid card depending on what you guys say to start out with decent performance.
once i get some more money, should i get an scsi card and 9 gig fast scsi HD and run all my apps off that (and store my files on the ibm),
or should i get another deskstar and run raid 0 off it?
OR, if i'm really rich, would it be best (well, all scsi would be the best...) to get the scsi to run apps, and a raid setup (2 ibms) to store files (quick opening rate/saving rate)?
thanks a lot, just figuring out where i can get the best performance for cost.
joe
ps, scsi uses the cpu the least, right? SO, if i have a t-bird 700 o/c to 950, would i even notice the high cpu usage of an ide?
thanks again
 

BigToque

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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For me personally (not my computer tweaker side), I would have to say SCSI is not worth the money it costs.

If you think about it, all it really does is speed things up a bit. Instead of MS word taking 3 seconds to load up, it takes 1 second on SCSI. Instead of Windows taking 45 seconds to load up, it takes 30 seconds to load up.

Now seriously think about that. With SCSI, You've saved 17 seconds. Or maybe in some graphic software, you might save 1 minute and 17 seconds.

To my tweaker side: WOW!!1 HOLY FSCK!!! 1:17!!!!!
To my realistic side: whoop dee doo. i spent 2-3x as much on the drive, and scsi card, for less space and 1:17. That just doesnt seem worth it too me. I mean, I could make a sandwich in that time :)
 

crazyjoekuta

Senior member
Sep 3, 2000
543
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yea, i guess i'll leave scsi as a last option to fully enhance my computer. i'll start w/ processor, mobo, o/c gear, hd, 3d card, and lastly scsi.
sounds good!
joe
 

Sephiroth_IX

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
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NFS4 - SCSI burners are better than IDE burners. If you dont get coasters now, though, dont worry about it.

You want performance? Get two, say, Diamondmax Plus harddrives, put them on a RAID 0 stripe, and you will see incredible performance. The cool thing about RAID is that it truly about doubles performance. Windows loads in 40 seconds on your fast hard drive? Youre looking at probably 22 or so with RAID. And the only thing that makes computers SEEM slow is harddrive performance and ram, generally. I have seen a p2 450 with 256mb and a 7200 drive look like it blows the doors off an Athlon with 128 and a 5400 in Windows. (Im not talking about gaming folks!)

What else do you have on your IDE? CDROM? PFFT, if you use your CDROM enough to go SCSI, I'll fedex you a cookie right now...



IDE Raid is cheap and effective, and two DiamondMax Plus' drives in raid 0 will outperform a 10000 SCSI any day of the week
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I'm basically just looking at going with a SCSI HD first...IDE RAID is still an option
 

Erasmus-X

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
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<< Why are SCSI drives so small in capacity compared to IDE drives? >>



Not only are you paying for the extra speed, but you're also paying for the build quality, which seems to be focused on a lot more than on IDE drives (although there are some exceptions, like IBM's excellent IDE's). It's kind of like comparing a Corvette to a foreign exotic car like a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Both will go fast, but you pay a LOT more for the exceptional craftmanship of that Ferrari.
 

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
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How do you set up IDE raid? With a PCI Card?
Hehe Stefan, I reboot my computer sometime 6-7 times a-day... Gotta love Win98! :| So those extra 10-20 seconds are nice :D

and crazyjoekuta it really depends. I think a 9GIG SCSI drive for booting and programs and then a 60+GIG IDE for files, MP3's and such is a pretty good setup.

 

Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
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Even if SCSI only saves you 1:17 every day, over a period of a year it saves you 7.806944... hours. ;)
But most SCSI drives are warrantied to last at least 5 years, so you'll save 39.034722... hours before the drives are out of warranty. :)
At $9.50/hour that's $370.83. Say your new IDE drive was going to cost $200...you should be able to spend $570.83 on your new SCSI setup and consider it a long term investment. :) If you make more per hour, increase those numbers. :)
 

Sephiroth_IX

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
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But this is why we turn on the computer, take a leak, come back to the screen.

And for cheaper you can get two 7200 ATA/66 IDE's and drop them in raid
 

crazyjoekuta

Senior member
Sep 3, 2000
543
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Sephiroth_IX says that 2 sweet ide drives in a raid 0 setup will blow away scsi, huh? then why do people use scsi? for the other stuff you can put onto it? i'm sure there's a benchmark of a ide raid setup vs. scsi setup?

DAZ, you can get a raid controller, i'm just gonna get the abit kt7 raid.
if you mean for scsi, good luck, those are very expAnsive!
joe
 

Sephiroth_IX

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
5,933
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Not ANY SCSI. I said &quot;10000&quot; SCSI. Dont take me out of context.

Two good (nice platter density and buffer) 7200rpm drives in RAID will perform better than a 10000 Cheetah SCSI drive. Im sure the 12000 version is about equal in performance and the 15000 pretty much showing ownage :)
 

crazyjoekuta

Senior member
Sep 3, 2000
543
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i didn't mean to take you out of context...
if i allready am getting an ide 7200 drive, w/ a raid mobo, i guess it would be cheaper and faster to just get another and strip them w/ raid 0, compared to using a standard scsi (10,000 rpm) (which, by the way, would cost 3x as much as just getting another ide). what's all the hub-bub about scsi, then? are these people referring to 15,000 rpm scsi? my friend also says he doesn't trust raid... is it not stable?
joe
 

Hardware

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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just two points:
plextor is changing to ide
adaptec starts wo work with ide raid controller

the big money in these days is with ide !