Gonad the Barbarian
Lifer
It's the second one. Not even a question. But you guys go ahead and keep acting like this is witnesses' fault that this guy is still going to die tomorrow.
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Anyone remember this a-hole?
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It's the second one. Not even a question. But you guys go ahead and keep acting like this is witnesses' fault that this guy is still going to die tomorrow.
Gonad the Barbarian
Lifer
It was in the CBS Nightly News report last night. Don't have a specific link, but googling the guy's name gets you more info than you'd want.
Edit: listed wrong network.
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werepossum
Elite Member
I agree totally. But if 7 of 9 recant, and there is no physical evidence, I'd say halt the execution until we're 100% sure.
Capital punishment has a near 100% success against re-offending. That sounds like a pretty good purpose to me. (I say near 100% rather than 100% on the chance that an innocent is executed, allowing the actual perpetrator to kill again.)
highland145
Lifer
Once the media/special interests get involved, the one true story will never be told.
Edit:Agree with WP, above.
Gonad the Barbarian
Lifer
Umm, the true story wasn't being told before the media got involved.
highland145
Lifer
May well be. The point is that most have an agenda and their story will reflect that. And this far down the line half truths and blatant lies will be quoted as truth.
Like WP said, if 7 recanted, hold up on the juice.
werepossum
Elite Member
LOL I should have actually read Gonad's link before posting. Seems 7 of 9 witness "recanted or contradicted" their testimony - which is subject to the defense attorney's judgment, and in any case is not that unexpected after twenty-plus years. Looks like four have actually recanted. So - were they lying then, or are they lying now? Also, the statement that there is no physical evidence tying Davis to the shootings is not true; shell casings were matched. Only the bullets were not matchable - not that unusual when fired into bone.
Still probably enough doubt to suspend the execution, but not nearly so much doubt as the usual suspects are trying to manufacture.
Still probably enough doubt to suspend the execution, but not nearly so much doubt as the usual suspects are trying to manufacture.
Arkaign
Lifer
Anyone see this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_Blue_Line_(documentary)
Or how about Ken Waters?
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Kenny_Waters.php
Our justice system is pretty wrecked, sadly. All one needs to do is look at the % of our adult population that we warehouse at great cost to our taxpayers. Look at who is making $ off of the status quo, and who gains money and power by increasing rather than solving problems. With the dramatic movement towards privatizing prisons and the prison industry at large (use corporations to supply food instead of having inmates run farms, give big contracts to politically connected firms to supply services at uncompetitive prices, etc) we are kind of a laughingstock of stupidity.
I laugh at the comparisons to Norway's justice system. With their recidivism rates (unbelievably low compared to ours), we'd be damned lucky to have their system. Due to the nature of how they work their whole goal is not only to not have someone in a situation to commit a crime in the first place, but if they do, to make sure that they are rehabilitated rather than warehoused. Our system encourages recidivism at every level. It makes powerful people more money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thin_Blue_Line_(documentary)
Or how about Ken Waters?
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Kenny_Waters.php
Our justice system is pretty wrecked, sadly. All one needs to do is look at the % of our adult population that we warehouse at great cost to our taxpayers. Look at who is making $ off of the status quo, and who gains money and power by increasing rather than solving problems. With the dramatic movement towards privatizing prisons and the prison industry at large (use corporations to supply food instead of having inmates run farms, give big contracts to politically connected firms to supply services at uncompetitive prices, etc) we are kind of a laughingstock of stupidity.
I laugh at the comparisons to Norway's justice system. With their recidivism rates (unbelievably low compared to ours), we'd be damned lucky to have their system. Due to the nature of how they work their whole goal is not only to not have someone in a situation to commit a crime in the first place, but if they do, to make sure that they are rehabilitated rather than warehoused. Our system encourages recidivism at every level. It makes powerful people more money.
werepossum
Elite Member
Not EVERY level. Damn little recidivism among the executed.
Texashiker
Lifer
The only thing that "might" be wrecked, the people serving on the jury might be overzealous to find the accused guilty.
Our justice system may not be perfect, but its all we have.
If more citizens took jury duty seriously, the justice system might just improve. How many people try their best to get out of jury duty? How many people have no sense of community service? And there lays the problem.
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halik
Lifer
And we're the awesomest of them all. Your point?
halik
Lifer
Aside from the economic standpoint (which of the two options is cheaper), what's the point of keeping the guy in the potential gene pool?
Can't rely just on darwin awards to keep evolving.
Arkaign
Lifer
That's true. And I do believe the VAST majority to an extreme level of those executed are indeed guilty and deserve death. My problem comes with knowing the flaws of the system. I have family in Law enforcement and criminal law, and it's a pretty big mess.
The problem is more with the court system as a whole than with jurors really. The prosecutors just want to 'win', at any cost. The same is true of the defense counsel. It's perverse because they shuffle back and forth between the two sides very smoothly. It's a business more than anything else.
Life without the possibility of parole offers the same recidivism rate as execution, with the extraordinarily rare exception of someone escaping death row custody and killing someone during the process of escape, fleeing, or capture.
Nothing's perfect. And I agree with the sentiment that it's all we have. It's not like we can throw it away and start over.
Good steps to drastically improve things would be :
(1)- End privitization of any part of the justice system. Introducing a profit motive has already proven to be extraordinarily bad (examples abound, the most notable being the one where that judge was getting kickbacks from a private detention facility in exchange for sentencing first-time teens to extreme sentences).
(2)- Transform the drug war from a criminal issue to a health issue, and decriminalize possession and use of personal amounts entirely. Obviously crimes committed against other persons to get drugs, or the illicit sale or transport of drugs, or the tranfer to minors should still be prosecuted vigorously.
(3)- Given that an absolutely staggering percentage of our current prison/jail/court system capacity is used in the drug war, vacating those resources would allow the following :
(a)- some portion of those resources should be scaled back, enabling lower budgets and less taxation / debt spending.
and
(b)- some portion of those vacated resources can now be used to enable dramatically HIGHER sentences for all forms of violent crime, and repeat offenders in the realm of property crimes. People getting 1-2 years for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, attempted rape, that kind of shit has got to stop. Part of the problem has been one of resources. It really is something of a zero-sum game when you think of the total capacity of the system, which can only grow at a limited rate due that we are already pushing the limits of, and if you are using a very large amount of resources in arresting, jailing, prosecuting, holding in prison (healthcare/food/housing), and then putting these people on parole, that's a crapton of resources that are better used towards more dangerous individulals.
Arkaign
Lifer
Life without the possibility of parole, and in max security without access to conjugal visitation = no longer in gene pool.
I'm fully in support of the death penalty under the concept that it could be done without error. The research that I've done on the subject leads me to believe that it's simply a poor policy however.
(1)- It's not really a deterrant. Texas has terrible homicide rates despite being the most trigger-happy state out there, and when someone really wants to kill someone, they don't worry about the law in the first place.
(2)- Even if 99 of those executed out of 100 are guilty, I can't honestly support the murder of the innocent man in the pursuit of something that has a reasonable alternative :
(3)- Life without the possibility of parole in max security is cheaper than execution unless we start doing it China style, and as a bonus if the guy turns out to be innocent and it isn't proven for 20 years, we find out and can start the procedures to exonerate. Exonerating the dead has little value. And LWOP takes the guy off the street permanently barring some major development.
Gonad the Barbarian
Lifer
The "expert" at the time "matched" the casings because they came from the same type of gun. That doesn't link Davis to this crime any more than anyone else with that same type of firearm.
Nebor
Lifer
You live in Jasper? That's on my way to Houston. It's almost as shitty as Leesville. 😛
Macamus Prime
Diamond Member
Good.
Now, when are they going to punish those sick trashy kids who ran over a black man with their truck about a month ago?
Now, when are they going to punish those sick trashy kids who ran over a black man with their truck about a month ago?
Texashiker
Lifer
We have better fishing then leesville.
The local news has been talking about this James Byrd stuff, and its digging in old wounds. the community will be glad when we can put all of this behind us.
Siddhartha
Lifer
I would rather that my government not kill people.
Nebor
Lifer
This whole area is incredibly, deeply racist. I went to pick up a friend of mine (young attractive girl) at a club a few weeks ago, and a police officer was standing with her. When she got in my car, he walked up and said, "I was just keeping an eye on her, lots of "democrats" around here." Then he points at a group of black people and says, "You know, minorities, n*****s."
The cop was Hispanic. I was like 😵
I wish this whole state would just slide off into the gulf.
werepossum
Elite Member
When a casing is ejected, it leaves micro scratches that are identifiable to that particular weapon. They aren't as diagnostic as non-deformed bullets and I don't know anything about the expert in this particular case, but in general matching casings is reasonable and good science. It isn't as precise because every gun has some play (slop) in its firing and ejection systems, whereas bullets are expanded to fit the bore and rifling and therefore the markings are much more precise, but it's more diagnostic than just to model of weapon.
Because I like feeling good.
There was also other physical evidence that was seized from Davis's mother's home but which was ruled inadmissible because the judge said the cops coerced his mother into letting them in.
It's worth remembering that Davis's attorneys were given a rare opportunity to lay out their arguments in court (federal court BTW, so no whining about racist southern judges) and the judge who heard the case said it was all smoke & mirrors. Too many people repeat press releases from dishonest groups like the NAACP and Amnesty International (a loathsome group of whiners if there ever was one) as if they were fact. The people behind all the "Troy Davis is Innocent" nonsense have blatant political motives, and are happy to manipulate the truth to advance their agenda.
I'd rather my government kill more people.
Texashiker
Lifer
Your opinion of an area is based off one person? Well, maybe 3 or 4 people - if you include the people that killed James Byrd. You do not live here, you just passed through. You have not spent enough time in the area to have an opinion.
The Jasper and Newton areas are anything but raciest. Blacks, whites, mexicans and all other races live in peace with one another.
There was a drug related murder just outside Jasper a few months ago. But for the most part, this is a peaceful community.
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