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Anyone read the article: Why Front-Wheel Drive Sucks
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Back up that statement or retract it. The Viper cannot outperform an NSX in corners, sorry, and I doubt the Z06 could either although it might come close. The Supra and the RX7 might come close as well, but the NSX in the right hands (read: someone who knows the handling charactaristics of a mid-engined sports car) should out handle all of them.
Huh???
How do you say that the Viper can't outperform it, but the Supra and RX-7 might be able to? The Viper easily outperforms both the RX-7 and Supra in the turns... EASILY. The Z06 will also.
The Viper has one of the best track times of any car being built, including Porsches and Ferraris.
Put the NSX in the hands of someone used to handling mid-engined sports cars and it destroys the Viper. Read the latest Maxim, theres a comparison in there.
Note: I'm talking about handling here, not a full track run. The Viper, or any of those other cars could probbably eat an NSX for breakfast in all out speed. For handling mid-engined cars are unmatched though.
Note: I'm talking about handling here, not a full track run. The Viper, or any of those other cars could probbably eat an NSX for breakfast in all out speed. For handling mid-engined cars are unmatched though.
Oh geez, you are now using a ricer mentality. Dodging reality trying to find an alternate scenario where your fanboy car will win.
The NSX will not win. Period. It is outclassed by the viper. By far.
Besides, in a skidpad test the driver does not have to know how to drive the car well, he just goes in circles and measures the tires' physical grip on the skidpad.
And I'd never read Maxim for anything car related again, especially after reading an article about cars where they showed an RX-7 and listed aftermarket connecting rods in its mod list. If you want to read car tests, read a car magazine.
The Viper is actually like a mid engined car also. The engine lies in between the wheels. But instead of the driver being in front of the engine, he's in back of it.
There's nothing about mid engined cars that guarantees an advantage in handling. The Toyota MR2 is mid engined, but the Toyota Supra easily outhandles it. And the Pontiac Fiero was mid-engined, but the Pontiac Firebird outhandles it.
lol
The strange part is that I own a Japanese car- a Nissan 300ZX. But I chose a car that follows the tried and true philsophy of performance, which is front-engine, rear wheel drive, and loads of torque. Doesn't really fit in with the "import" crowd, which has become synonymous with FWD, 4-cyl engine. While they're sitting at the stoplights revving their underpowered engines, I chose something that had 300 HP to begin with. They add senseless parts to get a "claimed" 200 hp, but if I wanted 200 HP I'd have to pull off half my spark plug wires.
I totally don't follow that "import crowd".
HAHAHA Wings and Things. 😀
Yeah, the NSX in its time was a bad bad car. Unfortunately, its time has c0ome and gone. Its still an excellent car and I'd surely take one, but its simply outclassed by todays current sports cars.
And numbers dont lie. The NSX just doesnt have the asphalt clawing pavement gripping force other cars today have. Fact of life. Skidpad shows it.
Now, I will contend that *maybe* your average driver would push the NSX harder into the corner then the Viper due to the feel of it. Granted, I dunno, never drove either one, but I suspect the NSX would feel more comfortable under hard lateral G's.... And if it feels more comfortable, you'll push it closer to the breaking point. Thats pure speculation however...Hell, maybe the Viper feels like its on rails...I dunno....
Yeah, the NSX in its time was a bad bad car. Unfortunately, its time has c0ome and gone. Its still an excellent car and I'd surely take one, but its simply outclassed by todays current sports cars.
And numbers dont lie. The NSX just doesnt have the asphalt clawing pavement gripping force other cars today have. Fact of life. Skidpad shows it.
Now, I will contend that *maybe* your average driver would push the NSX harder into the corner then the Viper due to the feel of it. Granted, I dunno, never drove either one, but I suspect the NSX would feel more comfortable under hard lateral G's.... And if it feels more comfortable, you'll push it closer to the breaking point. Thats pure speculation however...Hell, maybe the Viper feels like its on rails...I dunno....
bolido2000
Diamond Member
Besides Germany and the Italian exotics what other European countries make better cars than the Japanese?
and this has nothing to do with the viper's clear power advantage? (over the rx7, supra, and nsx)
there are many attributes that make up a "good handling car"... its wrong to conclusively to say that one car has superior handling to another.... especially ones so closely matched like above.
bolido2000
Diamond Member
nah.....that's just a Ford in disguide 😀
Wow I am impressed, I have only read two threads in which Mach Five has posted and I can already discern what he values, practicality....
He seems like someone that would buy a low end japanese import because it is cheap and highly reliable and then argue its performance merits against german and american cars which were geared more for the enthusiast simply because he got a better deal on the lower end FWD japanese car...he recently posted in response to a sunglass thread where he lambasted someone for wanting to spend their money on a pair of nice shades so why not argue that his cheapo FWD car is just as good as those waste of money musclecars and the germans 🙂~
As an owner of a performance oriented FWD car I will say that while it is nice, it doesn't handle nearly as well as my older 5.0 Mustang, then again that car had alot of money in suspension upgrades, but I think even with a good deal of work my current car, SVT Contour, would not match the older RWD car in performance, also interesting to note that neither Porsche or BMW offer anything in FWD configurations, and Audi's performance vehicles are all available in AWD configs (S4).
Toque steer is an awful thing and I would never want to deal with it on an autocross track, like MarshallJ said, RWD with understeer is the way to be if you want to feel sure going around the course IMHO.
He seems like someone that would buy a low end japanese import because it is cheap and highly reliable and then argue its performance merits against german and american cars which were geared more for the enthusiast simply because he got a better deal on the lower end FWD japanese car...he recently posted in response to a sunglass thread where he lambasted someone for wanting to spend their money on a pair of nice shades so why not argue that his cheapo FWD car is just as good as those waste of money musclecars and the germans 🙂~
As an owner of a performance oriented FWD car I will say that while it is nice, it doesn't handle nearly as well as my older 5.0 Mustang, then again that car had alot of money in suspension upgrades, but I think even with a good deal of work my current car, SVT Contour, would not match the older RWD car in performance, also interesting to note that neither Porsche or BMW offer anything in FWD configurations, and Audi's performance vehicles are all available in AWD configs (S4).
Toque steer is an awful thing and I would never want to deal with it on an autocross track, like MarshallJ said, RWD with understeer is the way to be if you want to feel sure going around the course IMHO.
Is there a source for this article or is this just a boring pointless rant.
BTW, LOL at the comment about complex techniques in Grassroots Motorsports. Trailbraking is a not a special technique. It's just one strategy for taking a corner. It's not stomping on the brakes in a turn and executing a rally-style drift. Drifting/wheelspin actually costs you time on a road course or autocross with most FWD & RWD cars. In rally, it's more about getting the car pointed in the right direction.
BTW, LOL at the comment about complex techniques in Grassroots Motorsports. Trailbraking is a not a special technique. It's just one strategy for taking a corner. It's not stomping on the brakes in a turn and executing a rally-style drift. Drifting/wheelspin actually costs you time on a road course or autocross with most FWD & RWD cars. In rally, it's more about getting the car pointed in the right direction.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Vehicles that I've had a good amount of experience driving:
1980 Plymouth Champ, FWD, about 30,000 miles
1991 Pontiac Grand Prix, FWD, about 100,000 miles
1990 Jeep Cherokee, RWD/4WD, about 15,000 miles
1978 GMC 3/4 ton truck, full time 4WD w/ lockable diffs, about 10,000 miles
1999 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton, RWD/4WD, about 4,000 miles
2002 Dodge Dakota, RWD, about 29,000 miles
What do I perfer? RWD, then full time 4WD, and FWD is a LONG way back. Handling wise it has a much more "seated" feel when I go into a corner, MUCH less nose plow and alot less of a feeling of the tires folding over in the corners (which was a major problem with both of the FWD cars, but none of the others). The Jeep got loose on me in two occasions, and extremely loose traction situations (snow, and what I suspect to be oil on water. 4WD hadn't been on at the time). For towing, I can't imagine even TRYING in a FWD car. It just seems like a silly idea to me. The RWD cars are also less affected by load, but given that three of them are trucks it's kind of expected.
And my Dakota has kept up with an Infinity G20 and an Acura Integra on some twisty backroads. So it's handling is pretty good. 🙂
1980 Plymouth Champ, FWD, about 30,000 miles
1991 Pontiac Grand Prix, FWD, about 100,000 miles
1990 Jeep Cherokee, RWD/4WD, about 15,000 miles
1978 GMC 3/4 ton truck, full time 4WD w/ lockable diffs, about 10,000 miles
1999 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton, RWD/4WD, about 4,000 miles
2002 Dodge Dakota, RWD, about 29,000 miles
What do I perfer? RWD, then full time 4WD, and FWD is a LONG way back. Handling wise it has a much more "seated" feel when I go into a corner, MUCH less nose plow and alot less of a feeling of the tires folding over in the corners (which was a major problem with both of the FWD cars, but none of the others). The Jeep got loose on me in two occasions, and extremely loose traction situations (snow, and what I suspect to be oil on water. 4WD hadn't been on at the time). For towing, I can't imagine even TRYING in a FWD car. It just seems like a silly idea to me. The RWD cars are also less affected by load, but given that three of them are trucks it's kind of expected.
And my Dakota has kept up with an Infinity G20 and an Acura Integra on some twisty backroads. So it's handling is pretty good. 🙂
rh71
No Lifer
I love my SUV. RWD, but 4WD when I need it. Before you start bashing from all fronts, I just lugged 6 fences home from Home Depot the other day. Beat that with a stick. Did I mention I love my SUV ?
The only bad thing about it is the gas effeciency, but we have an Accord to solve that.
The only bad thing about it is the gas effeciency, but we have an Accord to solve that.
No.
Even if you take away ALL the acceleration tests, the Viper still has much more physical grip to the road as illustrated by it's 1G+ skidpad numbers. Also take a look at its slalom numbers. Power doesn't improve those numbers.
They are not closely matched. The Viper is head and shoulders above the level of grip and handling of the NSX.
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