There are plenty of majors you can apply to a good career.. like mine. I'm sitting at a desk at Yellowstone with my geography degree. Yesterday I was GPSing buildings and last week surveying. Why choose a major you can't apply to a job, only to end up in an unfulfilling career anyway? I'll bet money that most philosophy degree holders aren't sitting on clouds philosophizing at the moment.
Originally posted by: Juno
i took philosophy recently spring and i passed easily. i did read 1,000+ pages from five books altogether. i did fell asleep but wasn't bothered to wake up. i had a friend to sat next to me all the time so she woke me up before the class got dismissed.
I did that for soc 101 for my first year in college. Would just go in for attendance and go to sleep. Buddies would tap me on the shoulder and I'd just get up and leave at the end of class. Almost like sleep walking. Was great. I'd kick up my legs on the row in front of me, pull a hood over my head with shades, and just pass out by 8 am.
Took Sociology of Sex and Marraige which was very interesting so thought Soc 101 would be another good elective. Boy was I wrong. They made us watch movies for most of the class as if we were 5 year olds being pacified. Saw Dazed and Confused and Risky Business etc as if they were movies of college caliber worth studying. Lost all faith in Sociology courses after that. Got A's though.
As for the guy ranting about how not everyone needs to live life for a job and work, I agree in principal. What he has yet to realize though that it doesn't work that way in the real world for most people. I tried. I argued that position for years. It didn't work. Life is simply a lot more enjoyable when you have a good job and make good money. You can then afford to make your passion (be it Philosophy or Basket weaving) your hobby.
If you're the rare exception that can sustain a good lifestyle as a Philosopher then good for you. That's of course assuming you're contributing something to society as a philosopher. I'm by no means materialistic but I think life is a lot more rewarding when you can afford to do most anything you want and aren't restricted because your career choice nets you no money. Money does not equal a good lifestyle by any means but it helps you get there be your interests just reading or travelling or thinking. They all require money to do. Otherwise you're just a waste of space and a burden on society. I don't want to pay for your healthcare, your retirement, and your "life" if you are just going to be a bump on a log. Please pull your own weight.
Justifying a philosophy degree with a stint in Law School doesn't impress me. I've had to hire two lawyers in my young life and have fired both and done the job better myself. Lawyers are professional bookworms and most aren't successful. Becoming a successful lawyer is like becoming a movie star. Most simply don't make it.
"Go find a job!"
"...Why?"
-family guy
i think philosophy is absolutely ridiculous, btw, so I have nothing constructive to add here.
"...Why?"
-family guy
i think philosophy is absolutely ridiculous, btw, so I have nothing constructive to add here.
Can she, or can she not, get a job as a philosopher, using her degree? What skills does she bring to the table and does she have more or less skills than someone with a degree in [insert degree here]?
You have to see things from an employers point of view.
He also got a master's degree at Yale, and he has a job he loves lined up (works there summers while in school). I think he's doing okay for himself.
Yes, and that job will be at McDonald's. She can give out a philosophical quotation with every value meal!
What was the Masters degree in?
One thing he's got going for him is good schools. That's awesome.
Depends on what matters most to her. A BA is pretty much a BA unless you do something specialized. I love being a philosophy major but have no illusions about making any money with it. Unless you go into law, but not everyone in Phi wants to do that. It makes me happy to be in Phi and I think that's most important.
You are not your job, but it does take cash to live. My personal conundrum...
You are not your job, but it does take cash to live. My personal conundrum...
IMO it's extremely important to have thinkers, and the philosophy folk running around. But for a degree, I think it's a bit BS and no money will come from it. If I was interested in getting a philosophy degree, I'd rather do something that is relatively the same but way cooler, like moving to an ancient chinese monk monestary and ponder with some wise-men, rather than some douchebag grad student. I find philosophy semi-interesting but there is just so many lame things tied in with it. I have to really be in 'a mood' to talk with a philosopher. The "show me a number" and "brain-in-a-vat" conversations are interesting for an hour, then i'm done... so I definately wouldn't want to date/marry a philosopher. I personally want a girl who is doing something in nursing or the like, mostly because that is stuff that I don't know very much about, and if she knows that stuff she'll complete me.
Here's the real gist of the issue (I stated it in my first post, but now emphasizing it):
She's a smart girl, so I don't doubt she'll find a decent-paying job with her philosophy degree. However, my own personal take is that bringing in a philosophy degree to a job application will limit her choices, and so the scenario that plays in my head is that she'll have to accept a job that doesn't like. She likes philosophy, but there are no Philosophers Wanted signs, so she's not going to get a job as a philosopher (other than teaching). So...what I'm trying to tell her is sacrifice a little and get a degree in something that can land her a job that she'll be satisfied in, even if it's not her first choice. I'm trying to make her realize she has to see further into the future. She may be studying what she loves for 4 years + grad, but she might have to settle for an unsatisifying job since her choice of study might limit her prospects. And that's the heart of the issue here.
She's currently in premed/Biology, and I'm telling her to continue pursuing that. Alternatives I've suggested included Biology major + philosophy electives, or Biology major + philosophy minor..or even Philosophy major + premed option then go to med school. But she seems to want to do grad school in philosophy. She's not a lawyer-type kind of person; so law school is not an alternative for her. She may like teaching, I dunno...but the point is that her options just narrowed.
And what prompted this discussion with her was that a girl at my college was an English major who's working at a cafe. She tells me that both of her English major friends (graduated) are working also waiting tables. I just don't want to see my SO in that same position.
She's a smart girl, so I don't doubt she'll find a decent-paying job with her philosophy degree. However, my own personal take is that bringing in a philosophy degree to a job application will limit her choices, and so the scenario that plays in my head is that she'll have to accept a job that doesn't like. She likes philosophy, but there are no Philosophers Wanted signs, so she's not going to get a job as a philosopher (other than teaching). So...what I'm trying to tell her is sacrifice a little and get a degree in something that can land her a job that she'll be satisfied in, even if it's not her first choice. I'm trying to make her realize she has to see further into the future. She may be studying what she loves for 4 years + grad, but she might have to settle for an unsatisifying job since her choice of study might limit her prospects. And that's the heart of the issue here.
She's currently in premed/Biology, and I'm telling her to continue pursuing that. Alternatives I've suggested included Biology major + philosophy electives, or Biology major + philosophy minor..or even Philosophy major + premed option then go to med school. But she seems to want to do grad school in philosophy. She's not a lawyer-type kind of person; so law school is not an alternative for her. She may like teaching, I dunno...but the point is that her options just narrowed.
And what prompted this discussion with her was that a girl at my college was an English major who's working at a cafe. She tells me that both of her English major friends (graduated) are working also waiting tables. I just don't want to see my SO in that same position.
You sound like a good compliment to her.
I'm all for people doing what makes them happy. There have to be practical limits though.
I guess this is going to turn into a YAGT if this bothers you. It's her life. Can you be with her if she makes that decision? I would hope so. Try the passion as a hobby argument with her.
I wish someone could find some stats on what philosophers do. What jobs do they find percentage wise that use their education? Is your girlfriend interested in any of them? A philosphy degree is basically the bottom of the barrel when it comes to getting a liberal arts degree. It's almost like committing career suicide and just admitting that you're getting a degree in general education. She's going to have to get a job that doesn't care what degree you have.
I went to the university that I graduated from and read up on Philosophy. Even the dept themselves admit that Philosophy doesn't prepare you for a job. It states that it's more of a general and abstract education. You have to get a degree beyond it.
Convince her to just take Philosophy electives or to minor in it.
Now if she's going to be the next Steve Martin then I take everything back but let's face it, that's not common. You can't exactly go to college to be Steve Martin either.
BTW, I noticed that President Clinton got a degree in Philosophy. That's pretty funny. Martin Luther King Jr got one too. That makes sense. And yes I looked up famous people besides Steve Martin.
Your views are very similar to hers. As such, I almost completely disagree with you.
For example, on money. I want a lucrative career because I'm somewhat shallow and I'm materialistic.
But at the same time, I want to provide my kids the very best; I want financial independence, and I want choices and options. The lack of money will take those away. Like you, she doesn't see it this way. I can respect that, as long as she is self-sufficient. But I do question whether she'll be able to provide her kids the same opportunities as someone who's making a doctor's salary. And I do question on whether she'll be truly happy when she's still paying off school loans many years after she graduates.
From Rich Dad Poor Dad, the lack of money is the root of all evil.
Also like you, she has no real plans after college. That's understandable somewhat, as I'm not exactly sure what specific career I want to get into. However, my engineering degree is versatile and will provide me with many choices upon graduation. With her, she's just gonna wing it. And her degree will provide her with fewer choices, which has me worried.
And while you're right in that some very successful people do not even have degrees, but really now...they're exceptions. The fallacy you're committing is that of the biased sample. On the other hand, I may be wrong in my assumption that a philosophy degree limits career choices. And so if anyone has statistics, please show them. I really hope I'm wrong, but based on stats for other liberal arts, I don't think my assumption is wrong.
And while I disgree with you on most of your views, they will be helpful in helping me understand her motivation more.
Most of the jobs she is losing out on are jobs she wouldn't consider anyway. If she wants guaranteed employment get a degree in Math.
thinking more about it, if it is what you love, Philosophy degree is better then a degree in Poli sci, history, english (not linguistics), and comparable majors.
"Rich Dad Poor Dad"'s author has been revealed as self made loser. He made his money from selling the book and not until after Amway type organizations got into it.
thinking more about it, if it is what you love, Philosophy degree is better then a degree in Poli sci, history, english (not linguistics), and comparable majors.
"Rich Dad Poor Dad"'s author has been revealed as self made loser. He made his money from selling the book and not until after Amway type organizations got into it.
No, you don't. YOU feel you need to see things from an employers point of view. Good for you. Others feel differently and they're just as entitled to that view as you are to yours.
Originally posted by: QueHuong
Your views are very similar to hers. As such, I almost completely disagree with you.
For example, on money. I want a lucrative career because I'm somewhat shallow and I'm materialistic.
But at the same time, I want to provide my kids the very best; I want financial independence, and I want choices and options. The lack of money will take those away. Like you, she doesn't see it this way. I can respect that, as long as she is self-sufficient. But I do question whether she'll be able to provide her kids the same opportunities as someone who's making a doctor's salary. And I do question on whether she'll be truly happy when she's still paying off school loans many years after she graduates.
From Rich Dad Poor Dad, the lack of money is the root of all evil.
Also like you, she has no real plans after college. That's understandable somewhat, as I'm not exactly sure what specific career I want to get into. However, my engineering degree is versatile and will provide me with many choices upon graduation. With her, she's just gonna wing it. And her degree will provide her with fewer choices, which has me worried.
And while you're right in that some very successful people do not even have degrees, but really now...they're exceptions. The fallacy you're committing is that of the biased sample. On the other hand, I may be wrong in my assumption that a philosophy degree limits career choices. And so if anyone has statistics, please show them. I really hope I'm wrong, but based on stats for other liberal arts, I don't think my assumption is wrong.
And while I disgree with you on most of your views, they will be helpful in helping me understand her motivation more.
Like I said, I think you two should call it quits. Not because you're differen - that can be a great advantage. But because you aren't ok with her being different. You'll never make it together if you can't respect her opinions and choices...and that includes her views on employability, purpose of life, and desired economic levels. I'm not trying to be rude here, truly I'm not.
I never said I don't have plans after college. I said I wasn't going to use my PhD as part of those plans. I'm getting my Masters of Education so I can teach high school, which has been my dream since I was an early teenager. Also understand that I've already been out 'living life' since I'm 34. I've held the jobs and tried things the 'American way'. It's not for me.
Rich Dad Poor Dad is largely a hoax, and the philosophy of it is only applicable to those that already share it. For the rest of us it's bogus. You still fail to grasp that there are differences of belief that are valid - like not caring about money. You suggest it's needed to care for your children, I say you're ignorant. My daughter (who's only with me part of the year due to divorce) just turned 11 last weekend. She has 14.5k in her college account, she takes ballet, martial arts, and violin lessons, we live in one of the best neighborhoods in our town in a 3 bedroom 2 bath fairly modern home situated on a largish lot, my only debt is 7k of school loans (which has me basically thru my BA, most of another AA, and about half of two more BS's), I own the house (ok, to be fair it's the family home, passed on to me), own my car (although it's time for a new one now), we have 9 good computers, and everything you can think of that might define affluence. Hell we even have a weekly maid. I've never made more than 30k a year in my life, and have been paying child support for the last 9 years on top of accomplishing what I just mentioned. My point: people can live just fine without any interest in or focus on money.
I do like your last paragraph quite a bit. No one expects you to change, or even like the views of others. But if you're willing to accept that there are other views that are 100% equal in worth to yours (at least for those that hold them) it will help you understand and get along much better with those people.
You're in your own little world if you think the job market will cater to you. I think everyone should maximize their potential.
I can tell you that roughly 75% are professors, and the rest are in AI or working for non-profits or think-tanks. Bottom of the barrel? Maybe if your're an undergrad who doesn't want to synthesize or analyze ideas, but I would say someone who is highly skilled in logic would be an asset to any corporation.
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