Anyone know anything about framing a house / inspecting framing?

[TheCanuck]

So I'm having a house built through a local builder and they've just started the framing. One thing that is bugging me is that the exterior wall in the living room has about a .5 - 3/4" gap where two sections of wall join. I'm no expert but I would think that at the very least the 2x4s on top of the wall should be flush with one another:

Wall Gap 1

Wall Gap Closeup

Anyone have any experience building a house or know anything about framing? If it were an interior wall I don't think it would be that big of a deal but you can clearly see to the outside plus I'm worried about the walls shifting slightly as the house ages.

 

[T9D]

Not ideal. But it's fine. Not sure about code but it looks structurally sound. It would appear it's secure and stable by being nailed to the joists and 2 x 4's above it. Shouldn't go anywhere at all. And once all the siding is put on you wont be able to see through it at all. The only thing I dont like is that they didnt close over teh gap with the chipboard.

 

[lozina]

I'm no framing expert but that looks horrendous, poor worksmanship if you ask me. Maybe if the 2 studs had that gap but at least the outside sheeting flush against eachother but it looks like they nailed the sheeting to the studs and raised them up separately and then they realized their measurments were poor.

 

[iamwiz82]

Looks like it is leaning about an inch. How tall is that, 9ft? Did you get a level out and check the rest of the studs? My bet is that if that one spot looks like that, you will also have lots of walls leaning in and out.

 

[TheCanuck]

Haven't had a chance to check the studs with a level yet...will have to try to do that tonight. I'm sure the builder is going to say that it's within spec though. I figured I was going to have problems when the project manager told me the framers said they were going to put up the framing in 5 days!

Thanks for the replies.

 

[dullard]

I've done a little framing as a hobby (but I'm not a trained expert). Boards are always warped, nothing is ever perfectly square/level. Thus, you need to have a little leeway for gaps like that. Usually gaps are not a problem. You'll have wrap that goes outside that OSB to keep water out, and then some form of siding outside the wrap. So there are at least two more barriers that'll cover the gap.

What you show there is the biggest gap I've seen, but it probably isn't enough for concern.

 

[DrPizza]

?????
wow, I've never seen something like that on wood frame construction... I've seen it with block construction - "expansion gap" that's later filled in with rubbery filler of some sort.

 

[skyking]

That's an odd deal, because a wall like that is usually built in one piece. It must have been impossible to tip it up as one in that case, but more pics would reveal that.
That gap is no big deal, sheeting cures all. The two-piece wall raises questions.

 

[Armitage]

What concerns me isn't the gap - I wouldn't be to concerned about that. The strange bit is that the top plate doesn't span the wall sections. Normally that 2nd 2x4 should span the wall sections to tie things together. I think it should be about a 2' overlap. I also like to have the sheathing overlap the wall sections as well to tie things together, but that's probably more personal preference.

But overall, I'm really not sure what's going on above that wall. I guess this wall is parallel to the roof trusses/2nd floor joists? It looks like there is another 2x4 that sticks in, probably as a drywall nailer? Or is this a 2x6 that goes all the way out to the outer edge of the 2x4 wall? Then there is what looks like a 2x4 on edge above that, and then that wider piece with the blue-stain? I have no idea what that is about...

 

[rhino56]

that is messed up. what will happen is he made a weak point in the wall. thats why you have to stagger the seams on everything. the drywall will crack there most likely due to movement.

it should be like this and there are codes that say how far the seams should be staggered by. but normally its common sense. but it looks like they just assembled the walls and lifted them into place. just like they build modular homes.

 

[TheCanuck]

Just talked with the Project Manager and he assured me that any gaps would be filled (mentioned using 1" spacers / glue etc) but I'm still worried that a year or two down the road I'll see cracking in the drywall.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Just talked with the Project Manager and he assured me that any gaps would be filled (mentioned using 1" spacers / glue etc) but I'm still worried that a year or two down the road I'll see cracking in the drywall.

Nah. If they fir it up and use glue it'll be the strongest part of the wall.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Just talked with the Project Manager and he assured me that any gaps would be filled (mentioned using 1" spacers / glue etc) but I'm still worried that a year or two down the road I'll see cracking in the drywall.

Again - the gap isn't what I'd be concerned about. The fact that the plate doesn't overlap the joint in the wall is. All the glue/caulk/filler in the world isn't going to help that.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Just talked with the Project Manager and he assured me that any gaps would be filled (mentioned using 1" spacers / glue etc) but I'm still worried that a year or two down the road I'll see cracking in the drywall.

Again - the gap isn't what I'd be concerned about. The fact that the plate doesn't overlap the joint in the wall is. All the glue/caulk/filler in the world isn't going to help that.

The top plate doesnt make any sense. It's like it was done by someone new.

 

[TheCanuck]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Just talked with the Project Manager and he assured me that any gaps would be filled (mentioned using 1" spacers / glue etc) but I'm still worried that a year or two down the road I'll see cracking in the drywall.

Again - the gap isn't what I'd be concerned about. The fact that the plate doesn't overlap the joint in the wall is. All the glue/caulk/filler in the world isn't going to help that.

Any suggestions on what I should say to the builder or have him do? I'm not going to be happy with these guys if the drywall ends up cracking a year or two down the road. Plus with their warranty they will only repair drywall cracks exceeding 1/8" in width one time during the first year of the warranty period. After year two or if it occurs more than once in year one they won't fix it.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: TheCanuck

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Just talked with the Project Manager and he assured me that any gaps would be filled (mentioned using 1" spacers / glue etc) but I'm still worried that a year or two down the road I'll see cracking in the drywall.

Again - the gap isn't what I'd be concerned about. The fact that the plate doesn't overlap the joint in the wall is. All the glue/caulk/filler in the world isn't going to help that.

Any suggestions on what I should say to the builder or have him do? I'm not going to be happy with these guys if the drywall ends up cracking a year or two down the road. Plus with their warranty they will only repair drywall cracks exceeding 1/8" in width one time during the first year of the warranty period. After year two or if it occurs more than once in year one they won't fix it.

I don't know how things work in Canada ... I assume you have some sort of building inspection? Do you know if the building has had the structural inspection yet? I would call them up and describe the situation. Tell them that the joint in the top plate of the wall is directly over the joint in the bottom plate. In the inspection handouts for my area (http://www.pprbd.org/planckhandouts.html, click on "Residential Building 2005 Inspections") it states

Bearing and exterior wall studs capped with double top plate. End joints in the double top plate offset by a minimum 48"

Or bring in a structural engineer to look at it. I have no idea how much it would cost, but I think this is serious enough to get a proffesional opinion.

Any chance you could post some pics with a little more context? Maybe showing some of the ceiling structure above this wall, adjoining windows/doors/etc.? I'm still confused about what's going on above those plates.

 

[TheCanuck]

The house is actually being built in Pittsburgh, PA so they do go by the ICC standards. I guess I need to pick up a copy of the building codes then and go through them. Thanks.

 

[drnickriviera]

I agree with armitage Looks like you have 3 joints right there, but I can't quite tell what is going on.

 

[TheCanuck]

Well according to the PM now these homes are built using panelized construction. Top plates aren't overlapped and they use metal plates to tie the panels together. So I guess this is how quite a few homes are built these days...but I still think their framers are doing a crappy job putting the panels together.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Well according to the PM now these homes are built using panelized construction. Top plates aren't overlapped and they use metal plates to tie the panels together. So I guess this is how quite a few homes are built these days...but I still think their framers are doing a crappy job putting the panels together.

Link

See where it says the second wall top plate is site applied? That's to overlap the plates. Your builder didn't do that.

http://www.castlegate-homes.com/packagematerials.html

 

[TheCanuck]

Unfortunately for me I guess there's an exception to the ICC International Residential Code for One & Two Familys that states the builder can use a single top plate provided the plate is tied by a 3"x6" galvanized plate -- R602.3.2

ICC Wall Codes

I guess the only thing I'm really going to be able to do is hire a good home inspector to look at everything before they put up the drywall / insulation as well as before closing and take pictures of everything in case there are any problems down the road.

 

[AlienCraft]

That's a crappy joint. (edited) After a complete reading of the thread, my first impulse to say "where's the plate?" was correct.
A contract builder is constrained by time versus dollars when it comes to quality applied.
You are wise to observe construction to assure the details are observed. Often this is where the cost cutting in labor is most often felt.
Meaning having new or unqualified labor installing or building systems incompletely or incorrectly.
This is where experience is it's most valuable.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Unfortunately for me I guess there's an exception to the ICC International Residential Code for One & Two Familys that states the builder can use a single top plate provided the plate is tied by a 3"x6" galvanized plate -- R602.3.2

ICC Wall Codes

I guess the only thing I'm really going to be able to do is hire a good home inspector to look at everything before they put up the drywall / insulation as well as before closing and take pictures of everything in case there are any problems down the road.

Wow - I'm glad my house isn't built to that spec. That sounds really weak to me compared to an overlapping top plate. Even more so when the wall sections aren't butted up nice and tight. That doesn't bother me to much with a long overlap - but it does with that little plate.

But ... given that, where is that steel joining plate? It seems you ought to be able to see it through the gap in that second picture, but I don't??

Overall, I think some building codes are really lax - it always bothers me to see a stick frame house sheathed in nothing but 1/2" foil backed insulation - not even flakeboard, much less plywood. And some of the spans you can get away with on engineered floor joists :disgust: Maybe strong enough I guess - if you don't mind a floor you can feel move everytime you walk across it.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: TheCanuck
Unfortunately for me I guess there's an exception to the ICC International Residential Code for One & Two Familys that states the builder can use a single top plate provided the plate is tied by a 3"x6" galvanized plate -- R602.3.2

ICC Wall Codes

I guess the only thing I'm really going to be able to do is hire a good home inspector to look at everything before they put up the drywall / insulation as well as before closing and take pictures of everything in case there are any problems down the road.

is ICC in use in your jurisdiction? There are many different building codes and local amendments to building codes as well.

 

[Pikachu]

That's just sloppiness by people in a hurry with no attention to detail. As was mentioned, the top plate should have spanned it, but that's just more sloppiness etc. (Just looked a second time, and I see the top plate does span those wall sections.) Drywall won't crack there anymore than it would crack at the 16" "gaps". You can hide a multitude of sins with drywall compound and paint. Chances are the trim work will be done with more care. Did you look at his other work before hiring him?