Anyone keep lizards?

[[DHT]Osiris]

Have a few questions regarding lizard(s), if anyone on this forum has experience keeping. I'll refrain from typing paragraphs until I get a response in the affirmative. Thanks!
Lizard tax:

 

[MrSquished]

I had a super small lizard ages ago that I remember nothing about. But my niece has a bearded dragon now and they tell me all about how it works. Cool as fook lizard

 

[lyk24nik8]

Anyone with a bearded dragon? I'm looking into it

 

[MrSquished]

You gotta keep the temps right in the different parts of the terrarium.

The crickets or roaches they eat get coated in a powder you shake them in before feeding.

 

[Captante]

Don't get a Gila monster.

 

[JPS35]

Many lizards: chameleons, bearded, iguanas, water dragons, sand fish, monitors, skinks...

 

[IronWing]

Don't get a Gila monster.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Many lizards: chameleons, bearded, iguanas, water dragons, sand fish, monitors, skinks...

Alright, that's the closest I've seen so far in this thread This is a copypasta from another forum, with edits.

I've got a pair of Cordylus Tropidosternum (male and female) who have been getting acclimated to their new home for the last 6 months or so. Male is younger, and has grown a fair bit since we got him (maybe an inch or so). He's also much more outgoing, very active, and completely accustomed to his owners. Our female on the other hand tends to bolt either immediately upon seeing movement in the room the vivarium is in, or immediately after the 'threat' has passed. She spends plenty of time basking, but only tends to come out if she feels it's safe.

I don't have any specific issues with her behavior just being her behavior, but it does make feeding time difficult if she's retreated into one of their many hides, and our male just chases tweezers around to every nook and cranny trying to eat all the roaches I have for them. I've adapted a few techniques to feed her specifically, it's just awkward.

I've posted this to another forum, and taken some advice from that side as well (though I've had difficulty communicating specifics). Namely, I've increased the heat and concentrated heat on the section of the vivarium that has the most light, as well as adding a larger basking surface (darker colored to absorb more light). In addition, I've got some larger bulbs on the way which will hopefully increase the heat further. I had some critiques regarding temps (I was aiming for 85-90 at basking surfaces, was told it needs to be closer to 95-100). Those changes have been made aside from bulbs on the way, but it hasn't appreciably changed the behavior in our female yet. I've also received from information via twitter on some acclimation methods, including everything from just physically standing near the vivarium for extended periods of time so she becomes more accustomed to my physical presence, to holding my hand inside the enclosure in her sight for a few minutes, several times a day.

I'm happy to provide any information required.

Thoughts? Has anyone successfully acclimated a shy lizard?

 

[JPS35]

Alright, that's the closest I've seen so far in this thread This is a copypasta from another forum, with edits.

I've got a pair of Cordylus Tropidosternum (male and female) who have been getting acclimated to their new home for the last 6 months or so. Male is younger, and has grown a fair bit since we got him (maybe an inch or so). He's also much more outgoing, very active, and completely accustomed to his owners. Our female on the other hand tends to bolt either immediately upon seeing movement in the room the vivarium is in, or immediately after the 'threat' has passed. She spends plenty of time basking, but only tends to come out if she feels it's safe.

I don't have any specific issues with her behavior just being her behavior, but it does make feeding time difficult if she's retreated into one of their many hides, and our male just chases tweezers around to every nook and cranny trying to eat all the roaches I have for them. I've adapted a few techniques to feed her specifically, it's just awkward.

I've posted this to another forum, and taken some advice from that side as well (though I've had difficulty communicating specifics). Namely, I've increased the heat and concentrated heat on the section of the vivarium that has the most light, as well as adding a larger basking surface (darker colored to absorb more light). In addition, I've got some larger bulbs on the way which will hopefully increase the heat further. I had some critiques regarding temps (I was aiming for 85-90 at basking surfaces, was told it needs to be closer to 95-100). Those changes have been made aside from bulbs on the way, but it hasn't appreciably changed the behavior in our female yet. I've also received from information via twitter on some acclimation methods, including everything from just physically standing near the vivarium for extended periods of time so she becomes more accustomed to my physical presence, to holding my hand inside the enclosure in her sight for a few minutes, several times a day.

I'm happy to provide any information required.

Thoughts? Has anyone successfully acclimated a shy lizard?

Are these your first lizards? Unusual and expensive for a first time.

1. How do you know you have a male and female? How old is it?
2. Any evidence of bodily damage or skin issues? Regular shedding?
3. What is their housing like? Substrate? Climbing and hiding areas?
4. How does it act when you hold it? How long do you hold it?
5. Why feeding with tweezers? Does it eat if you leave it alone?
6. What is the night temp and how long do they go without light/heat?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Are these your first lizards? Unusual and expensive for a first time.

1. How do you know you have a male and female? How old is it?
2. Any evidence of bodily damage or skin issues? Regular shedding?
3. What is their housing like? Substrate? Climbing and hiding areas?
4. How does it act when you hold it? How long do you hold it?
5. Why feeding with tweezers? Does it eat if you leave it alone?
6. What is the night temp and how long do they go without light/heat?

Realistically, first ones. I had some minor caretaking of an alligator snapping turtle as a child (which was a fair bit more exotic) but no real experience. My thought process from the outset was something that didn't require a huge amount of space, didn't require a massive amount of humidity control, and had reasonable requirements. These guys fit the bill pretty well, and from what I read they're hardy, and are long-lived. Main downside being there's like, no information out there compared to stuff like beardies, most common geckos, etc. The price wasn't as huge a consideration, for a couple hundred bucks it's not the most expensive thing I've jumped into.

1) I'm presuming it's a male and female based on the request I made from the place I got it from (backwater reptiles). Based on behavior of the animals (if there's any such correlation between fauna on this planet), our male acts like a male, very outgoing, much more assertive toward the other, etc. I know there's subtle biological differences between the two on this species, but a) I can't get a good look a the female very often and b) the male still doesn't let me pick him up to check for femoral pores. No idea how old the female is, but 'adult'. Male is younger, as he's grown maybe an inch and a half since we got him. He's still an inch or two away from the female's length (though I think they tend to be slightly smaller).

2) No skin issues from what I can tell. Our male has shed twice, female hasn't shed yet from what I've seen. Male came about 3" smaller than the female, with a slightly injured tail tip (assuming he got nipped on by a bigger male at some point) that has since healed.

3) Bioactive, which I gave a few weeks to acclimate to itself prior to getting the animals. The little dudes appear fine, every time I flip over a leaf there's springtails and isopods. Enclosure is a 36x18x24, substrate is a blend from Neherp, supposedly at least somewhat customized for the species (or at least they ask for the species when you order) I've had no issues with them messing with it, though they don't spend much time on the ground. I'll include a picture of the enclosure at the bottom. Lots of hides, lots of climbing. The enclosure is 'busy', but our male was seemingly bored and rather aggressive with our female until we added more activity space and hides. He's calmed down a lot since then.

4) I don't hold either. Our male occasionally lets me touch his back, but he repositions very quickly if I do. He's jumped on my hand once, and hopped back off pretty quickly when he realized there wasn't food on it. I got a tip from someone on reddit that hand/body form exposure can help them acclimate to me (I've been mostly letting them keep to themselves so far) so I'll be trying that some more.

5) So our male I have no issues feeding in any way. If I drop a dubia on a log, he'll just zip over and eat it. I can't really drop more than one in at a time for him because he'll get one, the other will immediately run for cover, and never be seen again. Very rarely I'll see him race off when the lights in the enclosure turn on (or the room lights turn on) and he catches one in the open, but neither really 'digs around' for food. Our female just hides as soon as I approach with food, so I either need to dangle with a tweezer and hope she gets it, or release one in a way that the only darkness available is her hide, and hope she gets it. Often they just climb on her head and she ignores it. I've had very limited success, I predict she eats about half as much as the male.

6) Night temps are 77-80, day temps are 80-90, controlled via one of those automated thermostats. I have a 4-bay hood with 2x UVB bulbs and 2x 75W incandescent (was 3x UVB and 1x 75W before making adjustments to temps, I have 100W bulbs inbound that I intend to revert with). I also have a single CHE for night temp maintenance which seems to work fine. Humidity is consistently sub-30's in the winter, it was 40's in the fall. I suspect we'll see 40's in the spring and 30's again in the summer. I verify their basking location temps with a FLIR as I make adjustments.

As a general rule, she stays in a hide if she sees movement. If she doesn't, after a little bit (a few minutes) she'll come out if she needs to bask, otherwise she pokes her head out of her hide like our male does, presumably perched to look for food crawling about. Our male tends to spend more time just generally scrabbling about, perching on branches, basking, cooling off, etc.

Some pictures:


Our female hiding in a crevice:


Basking spot temp checks.

 

[snoopy7548]

A quick Google search shows that Backwater Reptiles isn't a very reputable place, more like a puppy mill for reptiles.

You should confirm for yourself what their sex is. If both are males, then you'll need to separate them. The fact that the "female" is constantly hiding and skittish seems to indicate she's afraid of the "male".

Not shedding in 6 months sounds pretty bad, but I don't know the interval for these ones - I had a leopard gecko for about 12 years and she would shed about once per month. I suggest taking the "female" to a vet.

From my experience, my gecko didn't warm up to me for a while. She was always afraid (unless I was feeding her worms), but I followed the advice of putting my hand in the enclosure every so often, without moving it or trying to pick her up, until she got used to it. Then one day she just climbed onto my hand and she was fine after that.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

A quick Google search shows that Backwater Reptiles isn't a very reputable place, more like a puppy mill for reptiles.

You should confirm for yourself what their sex is. If both are males, then you'll need to separate them. The fact that the "female" is constantly hiding and skittish seems to indicate she's afraid of the "male".

Not shedding in 6 months sounds pretty bad, but I don't know the interval for these ones - I had a leopard gecko for about 12 years and she would shed about once per month. I suggest taking the "female" to a vet.

From my experience, my gecko didn't warm up to me for a while. She was always afraid (unless I was feeding her worms), but I followed the advice of putting my hand in the enclosure every so often, without moving it or trying to pick her up, until she got used to it. Then one day she just climbed onto my hand and she was fine after that.

Yeah, I couldn't find any specifically reputable sources online. Local is even more limited, closest place to me is about 2h away and they didn't stock these.

It's possible they're both males, but I'm accustomed to fairly predictable behavior between members of the same sex of different species, and there's a pretty stark difference in behavior for these two. No way to be sure just from observation though. They definitely have different head shapes and body shapes though, size difference notwithstanding, so I'm pretty confident they're different sexes.

I'll caveat by saying I'm not 100% sure that she's not shed. I've seen him shed twice, but it only takes a day or so for them to shed completely and I rarely see her, so she could have without me seeing it.

I'm going to start by working on some hand and body acclimation. Do you see anything above that stands out as a warning sign? Like heat levels, general activity of the male, etc?

 

[JPS35]

Realistically, first ones. I had some minor caretaking of an alligator snapping turtle as a child (which was a fair bit more exotic) but no real experience. My thought process from the outset was something that didn't require a huge amount of space, didn't require a massive amount of humidity control, and had reasonable requirements. These guys fit the bill pretty well, and from what I read they're hardy, and are long-lived. Main downside being there's like, no information out there compared to stuff like beardies, most common geckos, etc. The price wasn't as huge a consideration, for a couple hundred bucks it's not the most expensive thing I've jumped into.

1) I'm presuming it's a male and female based on the request I made from the place I got it from (backwater reptiles). Based on behavior of the animals (if there's any such correlation between fauna on this planet), our male acts like a male, very outgoing, much more assertive toward the other, etc. I know there's subtle biological differences between the two on this species, but a) I can't get a good look a the female very often and b) the male still doesn't let me pick him up to check for femoral pores. No idea how old the female is, but 'adult'. Male is younger, as he's grown maybe an inch and a half since we got him. He's still an inch or two away from the female's length (though I think they tend to be slightly smaller).

2) No skin issues from what I can tell. Our male has shed twice, female hasn't shed yet from what I've seen. Male came about 3" smaller than the female, with a slightly injured tail tip (assuming he got nipped on by a bigger male at some point) that has since healed.

3) Bioactive, which I gave a few weeks to acclimate to itself prior to getting the animals. The little dudes appear fine, every time I flip over a leaf there's springtails and isopods. Enclosure is a 36x18x24, substrate is a blend from Neherp, supposedly at least somewhat customized for the species (or at least they ask for the species when you order) I've had no issues with them messing with it, though they don't spend much time on the ground. I'll include a picture of the enclosure at the bottom. Lots of hides, lots of climbing. The enclosure is 'busy', but our male was seemingly bored and rather aggressive with our female until we added more activity space and hides. He's calmed down a lot since then.

4) I don't hold either. Our male occasionally lets me touch his back, but he repositions very quickly if I do. He's jumped on my hand once, and hopped back off pretty quickly when he realized there wasn't food on it. I got a tip from someone on reddit that hand/body form exposure can help them acclimate to me (I've been mostly letting them keep to themselves so far) so I'll be trying that some more.

5) So our male I have no issues feeding in any way. If I drop a dubia on a log, he'll just zip over and eat it. I can't really drop more than one in at a time for him because he'll get one, the other will immediately run for cover, and never be seen again. Very rarely I'll see him race off when the lights in the enclosure turn on (or the room lights turn on) and he catches one in the open, but neither really 'digs around' for food. Our female just hides as soon as I approach with food, so I either need to dangle with a tweezer and hope she gets it, or release one in a way that the only darkness available is her hide, and hope she gets it. Often they just climb on her head and she ignores it. I've had very limited success, I predict she eats about half as much as the male.

6) Night temps are 77-80, day temps are 80-90, controlled via one of those automated thermostats. I have a 4-bay hood with 2x UVB bulbs and 2x 75W incandescent (was 3x UVB and 1x 75W before making adjustments to temps, I have 100W bulbs inbound that I intend to revert with). I also have a single CHE for night temp maintenance which seems to work fine. Humidity is consistently sub-30's in the winter, it was 40's in the fall. I suspect we'll see 40's in the spring and 30's again in the summer. I verify their basking location temps with a FLIR as I make adjustments.

As a general rule, she stays in a hide if she sees movement. If she doesn't, after a little bit (a few minutes) she'll come out if she needs to bask, otherwise she pokes her head out of her hide like our male does, presumably perched to look for food crawling about. Our male tends to spend more time just generally scrabbling about, perching on branches, basking, cooling off, etc.

Some pictures:
View attachment 59345
View attachment 59346
Our female hiding in a crevice:
View attachment 59347

Basking spot temp checks.
View attachment 59348
View attachment 59349

Okay, first and foremost, I would have them surgically probed for sex by a veterinary herpetologist if you have one around. The one may be a male, but not convinced the second is female. They may also still be young to tell.

I don't think this has much to do with it as the overall habitat seems decent. What is the temp towards the bottom and in the hiding spots? As you know, temps need to vary from basking areas to cooler areas. Humidity seems low. They like it higher. Are you misting in the day to help with this?

The lack of shedding is concerning as it does not appear to be growing and thus, may not be getting enough to eat. However, this may be the result of being overly skittish or scared.

Most lizards start off scared with human contact, but get used to it fairly quickly the more you are around, hold, and interact. Just watch for warning signs of them being defensive. Are they in a place where they see a lot of activity or is it relatively calm around them?

You may want to try to separate them for a period of time to see if this changes the behavior and eating habits.

Lastly, I do not recommend ordering any animals or pets, or in general, getting them from big pet store chains. If you have local pet stores, or better yet, a local reptile and/or amphibian dealer/breeder, you would likely be better off.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Okay, first and foremost, I would have them surgically probed for sex by a veterinary herpetologist if you have one around. The one may be a male, but not convinced the second is female. They may also still be young to tell.

I don't think this has much to do with it as the overall habitat seems decent. What is the temp towards the bottom and in the hiding spots? As you know, temps need to vary from basking areas to cooler areas. Humidity seems low. They like it higher. Are you misting in the day to help with this?

The lack of shedding is concerning as it does not appear to be growing and thus, may not be getting enough to eat. However, this may be the result of being overly skittish or scared.

I'll check around for a herpetologist but we're pretty isolated where we are.

Temps at the bottom are in the 70's and probably closer to 40% humidity, I'd need to bring the humidity probe down a bit to check though. All my reading about these indicates they're pretty adaptable, and anything from 25-50% is fine, but 30%-40% is generally preferable. Their natural habitat is semi-arid forest and arid rocky climes so that should be within range. I do occasionally mist for surface water, as they seem to prefer to drink water off stones rather than drink from the dish they have. That's rare though, maybe once or twice a week are they actually interested in drinking.

I'm not convinced the female is actually growing, I think she's full sized. How often can an adult lizard expect to be shedding? I don't disagree that she's not getting enough to eat, though.

 

[JPS35]

I'll check around for a herpetologist but we're pretty isolated where we are.

Temps at the bottom are in the 70's and probably closer to 40% humidity, I'd need to bring the humidity probe down a bit to check though. All my reading about these indicates they're pretty adaptable, and anything from 25-50% is fine, but 30%-40% is generally preferable. Their natural habitat is semi-arid forest and arid rocky climes so that should be within range. I do occasionally mist for surface water, as they seem to prefer to drink water off stones rather than drink from the dish they have. That's rare though, maybe once or twice a week are they actually interested in drinking.

I'm not convinced the female is actually growing, I think she's full sized. How often can an adult lizard expect to be shedding? I don't disagree that she's not getting enough to eat, though.

They are not a big lizard when fully grown, maybe 6-8 inches head to tail tip. Even full grown, they will continue to shed periodically. Have you been able to hold it and if so, how does it respond?

 

[Naer]

I had one, it died, partly my fault, I think I didn't give him enough calcium. Got an internal infection. He was an ahole(always angry), not his fault tho, just the way he is. Maybe I'm just not a lizard friendly person

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

They are not a big lizard when fully grown, maybe 6-8 inches head to tail tip. Even full grown, they will continue to shed periodically. Have you been able to hold it and if so, how does it respond?

She's in the 6-8 range now. How often is 'periodically'? Or does that depend on the species?

I have not been able to hold her. I got our male to successfully go on my hand for a roach, he seemed completely at ease with it. Ate the roach, meandered back over to his previous perch.

Worked a little on hand exposure yesterday, but was out of the house for most of the day, more today.

Their new 100w bulbs came in, installed one and replaced the second 75W bulb with the UVB bulb that used to be in there. basking spots stayed above 95F, going to monitor today with the same setup through the whole day to make sure it maintains expected temperatures. One curious thing, after spending a few minutes warming up from basking, our male kind of went over to the other side of the tank and just sort of ... hung on the wall, is that normal? There's plenty of spots to sit/perch/get under something if he was just cooling off. Perching in the open seemed odd for something that in nature, would just get eaten by a bird, unless he's just very comfortable I guess.

 

[snoopy7548]

Get a ceramic bulb rather than a light bulb - the light will freak them out and screw with their cycles. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Reptile-Ceramic-Emitter-Infrared-Aquarium/dp/B017RCQ4JO

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Get a ceramic bulb rather than a light bulb - the light will freak them out and screw with their cycles. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Reptile-Ceramic-Emitter-Infrared-Aquarium/dp/B017RCQ4JO

I .. have one? I certainly don't have a light flipping on and off during the night. Hell, that'd screw with MY sleep cycle. Stated in post #10.

 

[JPS35]

She's in the 6-8 range now. How often is 'periodically'? Or does that depend on the species?

I have not been able to hold her. I got our male to successfully go on my hand for a roach, he seemed completely at ease with it. Ate the roach, meandered back over to his previous perch.

Worked a little on hand exposure yesterday, but was out of the house for most of the day, more today.

Their new 100w bulbs came in, installed one and replaced the second 75W bulb with the UVB bulb that used to be in there. basking spots stayed above 95F, going to monitor today with the same setup through the whole day to make sure it maintains expected temperatures. One curious thing, after spending a few minutes warming up from basking, our male kind of went over to the other side of the tank and just sort of ... hung on the wall, is that normal? There's plenty of spots to sit/perch/get under something if he was just cooling off. Perching in the open seemed odd for something that in nature, would just get eaten by a bird, unless he's just very comfortable I guess.

There is no defined time or frequency with "periodic;" just random.

What does it do when you get ahold of it?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

There is no defined time or frequency with "periodic;" just random.

What does it do when you get ahold of it?

So, I've had to really get ahold of her exactly once, when I first got her in the enclosure and she almost immediately found a way behind what I thought was an impermeable barrier *behind* the giant rock wall at the back of their enclosure. I had to basically rip the enclosure apart with both of them in there to get to her. Pulled her out (moreso chased her out into another part of the enclosure) and scrap yarded the rockwall and general enclosure into submission, hence the weird mix of cardboard and rock and shit in there. I'm working on that, but slowly, don't want to change too much at once or open any gaps (she finds them quickly). Otherwise I don't get ahold of her, because she bolts the second she's exposed, and she's fucking FAST. Like faster than the fastest hunting spider you've had to deal with when the girlfriend/wife says 'there's a fucking giant spider in the bathroom' fast. I wouldn't trust myself to snatch her without hurting her at this point. Our male on the other hand I could snag if I really needed to, but I can tell he's still not super keen on the idea, as I mentioned above.

Regarding shedding, understood. I'll be keeping a closer eye on her as I work on acclimating her.

I had to chase her out of another sneaky spot she somehow found to get behind a side rock wall yesterday. I mostly left her alone after chasing her out and sealing that back up. Today I spent a little more time just sort of hanging out by the enclosure, had my hand in there just vaguely resting near her hide, etc. She didn't react strongly other than hiding once I got close, but didn't scrabble to get further away from my hand, for instance.

Our 100w bulb alone seems to get their basking spots between 85F (lower basking area) and 95F (higher areas). We were out early this morning when I suspect they were warming up, through the rest of the day she spent most of her time poking her head out of her hide, and our male spent most of his time off to the side perched, but in a cooler area (~75F).

 

[dank69]

She's probably just trying to get ready for bikini season. Have you tried serving her a salad with the dressing on the side?

 

[snoopy7548]

 

[JPS35]

So, I've had to really get ahold of her exactly once, when I first got her in the enclosure and she almost immediately found a way behind what I thought was an impermeable barrier *behind* the giant rock wall at the back of their enclosure. I had to basically rip the enclosure apart with both of them in there to get to her. Pulled her out (moreso chased her out into another part of the enclosure) and scrap yarded the rockwall and general enclosure into submission, hence the weird mix of cardboard and rock and shit in there. I'm working on that, but slowly, don't want to change too much at once or open any gaps (she finds them quickly). Otherwise I don't get ahold of her, because she bolts the second she's exposed, and she's fucking FAST. Like faster than the fastest hunting spider you've had to deal with when the girlfriend/wife says 'there's a fucking giant spider in the bathroom' fast. I wouldn't trust myself to snatch her without hurting her at this point. Our male on the other hand I could snag if I really needed to, but I can tell he's still not super keen on the idea, as I mentioned above.

Regarding shedding, understood. I'll be keeping a closer eye on her as I work on acclimating her.

I had to chase her out of another sneaky spot she somehow found to get behind a side rock wall yesterday. I mostly left her alone after chasing her out and sealing that back up. Today I spent a little more time just sort of hanging out by the enclosure, had my hand in there just vaguely resting near her hide, etc. She didn't react strongly other than hiding once I got close, but didn't scrabble to get further away from my hand, for instance.

Our 100w bulb alone seems to get their basking spots between 85F (lower basking area) and 95F (higher areas). We were out early this morning when I suspect they were warming up, through the rest of the day she spent most of her time poking her head out of her hide, and our male spent most of his time off to the side perched, but in a cooler area (~75F).

Habitat and set up are fine.

The best I can suggest is the original idea to have a vet that specializes in lizards do a probed sex check, only way to be sure. Otherwise, it may just be a skittish lizard if you adopted it when it was older vs. newly hatched. You also may not know it's history prior to adoption. Slow acclimation to seeing you, being around you, slow movement in the cage, etc. may help.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Habitat and set up are fine.

The best I can suggest is the original idea to have a vet that specializes in lizards do a probed sex check, only way to be sure. Otherwise, it may just be a skittish lizard if you adopted it when it was older vs. newly hatched. You also may not know it's history prior to adoption. Slow acclimation to seeing you, being around you, slow movement in the cage, etc. may help.

Thank you. I'll continue gradual exposure, and acclimation to me being around her in as non-threatening a manner as I can manage.