Anyone interested in seeing me kill Ragnaros from 12 years ago?
- Thread starter Mayne
- Start date
I forget just how low end the graphics were back then. I do recall that fight. It's been over a decade since I've fought it.
I doubt many WOW players (current) really understand what you did there. I assume you are on one of the "vanilla" 3rd party servers? Doing that when 60 was an actual fight in early WOW, it was mellowed out later so only the 2004-2005 people even know what it was like (you know us OLD CODGERS). With WOW in its current state there is ZERO reason to do it, the greens at level 61 make that hard earned gear obsolete instantly. We wiped 20-30 times before we succeeded back in the day, Reading the FOH boards for tricks and tips ( they almost took every raid/boss down first back then). I miss SOME (not all) of the old world skills. I really hate how raids have been made to be 10-15 minute runs, I really enjoyed the 1-2 hour runs.. but i did come from EQ where setting up for a fight was 1-2 hours, fighting to a boss could be 2-3 hours, boss fight might be 10-20 minutes, then clean up on bad days could take 1-2 hours more (not saying it was better, but you TRIED way harder when you knew the penalty for bad choices) Now doing raids on the hardest level seems like cake, WOW went from make it hard to "make it so anybody who just keeps tiering up can smoke it".. I bitch but I still play it almost daily.. doing final rep grinds in Drenaor now.. im about 3-4 days from finishing exalted with Outcasts and Spears.. (saber cat grind was SAD, how Blizzard ever thought that was an OK thing I will never know.. LONG grind and make it single spot so its almost impossible to find a kill or two) Oh well nice vid!
I definitely fought it when it when 60 was the level cap. Our guild was the top raid guild of the server. That said, I was not part of the raiding team when they figured out the fight, as I was on the PvP team at that time.
I got out of raiding, and now whitewater kayak, which has some similarities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvQ0Qr9jb4&t=3s
I got out of raiding, and now whitewater kayak, which has some similarities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvQ0Qr9jb4&t=3s
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Why not both!
I have Kayaked but not in years, was fun,live where its not really easy to do unless you want to drive 2-300 miles. I spend most my outdoor time on cars now. Living where i do with winter coming i get lots of time for Raids but I too don't do much of it anymore.I remember Ragnarok back in the day. Was something to do.
Also the EQ raids. People who did those have stories unlike other games. Prexus server!
Also the EQ raids. People who did those have stories unlike other games. Prexus server!
I stopped when MMORPG's changed from being group games, to being solo games where you could group. WotLK was the last time I played an MMORPG. It started to feel like I was grouping with strangers, where being in a group was completely unnecessary. I was particularly discouraged with the standard group dungeons, where you joined a queue with random strangers, and had no need to coordinate, as they were made to be stupid easy. I really liked the difficult dungeon crawls of BC, WotLK killed it for me.Why not both!
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
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I got held off from our first Ragnaros kill because another Rogue had a tiny bit more FR than me. Sure, let me spend a bunch of DKP on Core Hound Leather just to sit idly in Ironforge. Of course, if I thought collecting all of that resist gear was bad (UBRS ring, Onyxia neck, etc.), I was in for a whole new world of fun getting gear for AQ40.
Of course, if I thought collecting all of that resist gear was bad (UBRS ring, Onyxia neck, etc.), I was in for a whole new world of fun getting gear for AQ40. I got held off from our first Ragnaros kill because another Rogue had a tiny bit more FR than me. Sure, let me spend a bunch of DKP on Core Hound Leather just to sit idly in Ironforge.
I love hearing this stuff, it was and wasn't fun all at the same time.. God how i hated Gearscore.. I seldom was the best geared but was always a top 3 DPS in our raids (when i went) and as you say somebody thought GS to low, XXX has better so they are going.. I miss some of it, but not all. I do miss it alot when i look at what the game has became.. I was never a elitist.. lest you follow a strict play and gear up plan you cant go, but what they call raids now are just silly, even the hardest is tame compared to early game. But many people never got to see Rag, etc.. and having the MAIN part of you game not seen by 50% of the average player is no good either. Its a hard act o make it good for all. Time sinks for faction, pets, mounts and achievements have kept it going, while the core game has been super simplified.
Bystander- i agree its became s SOLO game. but have you ever watched how the community is to a NEW player. I left for almost 2 years and came back, i needed to run some instances i have never seen (and I wasn't going yo watch a youtube of it, i wanted to actually PLAY it) holy hell... all i heard was "you loot, your to slow" etc,... they wanted to be done in 5 minutes.. I get that, done it a million times,its boring.. but some quests require specific loot etc.. The player base is crap, its all long term people who are so bored playing, but cant let go of that character they have had since 2004. I have quite and restarted 4 times, all with new accounts, it was fun to level in the old days, today its simple. 1-80 is maybe a 3-50 hour run.. it when you have to work with others it gets ugly now.. and guilds.. they are like a mini high school, unless you "grew" with them, your not somebody they want to help ever.. only when a person is gone are you even considered..And as an EX guild leader i get that too, to many join and just want you to hand hold them.. I get a bit "runny of the mouth" with this as MMORPG's where amazing in the early days.. EQ playing a HUMAN in the dark.. actually scarry, WOW with a good group doing the Deadmines 3-4 times for stuff, when you didn't out-level a piece of equipment when you turned the bosses head in .. I miss it alot.
EQ running through the forest zone south of West Commons at night trying to get to highpass hold... What was it Kithicor forest?
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
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Well, to be fair, I'm pretty sure the MC stuff was before Gearscore was even around. Although, that lent to a different problem... we didn't understand the system. Back in the beginning, Blizzard was pretty notorious about not telling the players how things worked, and over time, players just sort of figured things out. At this point, Blizzard is far more open, but back then, it caused some behavior that shouldn't have really existed. For example, with the FR difference between myself and the other Rogue, if I remember correctly, resistances worked in plateaus where you gained a certain amount of resistance if you met certain amounts. As an example, between 80-120 resistance might be 20% off and 121-150 might be 30% off. So, the difference between myself and the other Rogue might have meant absolutely nothing, but we didn't know any better.
Well, to be fair, the earlier raids were largely harder due to the lack of information and the poor state of gear. Vanilla WoW had some pretty bad gear and also had some horrid gear gaps. Zul'Aman was added after Blackwing Lair; however, it was run by some guilds that were already doing BWL because the raid dropped items for a few slots that just didn't exist anywhere. Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon to enter Molten Core in garbage clown suit gear that you picked up from Stratholme/Scholomance. (If you were even
I think World of WarCraft's biggest problem is that Blizzard feels the need to curate every moment of the game. How many "Vanilla Veterans" remember going out and doing random stuff when you weren't raiding or running dungeons? I remember (and have screenshots) of visiting random areas on the map that weren't really being used, or just messing around in enemy territory. What Alliance player didn't go have a screenshot taken while on Terenas Menethil's throne atop the Undercity? Sure, that may seem like completely useless stuff, and... it is! However, the idea was that you made your own fun, and that last word is key... it was fun. Now, when I play World of WarCraft, I feel like I'm completing busy work. I log in and do my daily quests ("daily chores") on all of my max level characters, and in the end, it just feels like a slog. You can always say, "Just don't do it." In some cases, they provide good money (how do you think I had over 1 million gold?) or they help with progression. If I remember correctly, the points for getting weapon skills in Legion can come from the dailies; however, to be fair, that isn't the only way you get them. The point there is that a character can be considerably behind unless you keep up with them daily. It got to the point where Blizzard would add in "catch up books" to give alts a boost to a certain level as long as your main was above that.
Aikouka you have hit on a theory I have about this topic.
It starts with reading books, like Tolkien, and how your imagination does so much of the entertaining.
That's why games could get away with basic graphics - like ascii graphics - and simply gameplay and be a ton of fun. Not just fantasy - early star trek games were garbabe, ascii grids you'd fly around and
say fire torpedos at the klingons, but it was fun since we liked star trek. Heck, kid's toys like dolls and soldiers need a lot of imagination.
Game evolution adds more and more and more graphics and content where the player is fed a lot - and sort of spoiled. It's hard to keep the player as engaged - but the player likes the added content.
I remember in EQ, it got to where people would feel like with a new zone, in 5 minutes they were 'done' with it. They'd looked around, seen the mobs, killed them once, done. What helped with that was
adding quests. When you had to kill 10 of this and 10 of that, and get 10 of those items, hours were added to the gameplay in the zone.
That's where the 'feels like a chore' comes from - finding ways to keep players using content for long times. That's a different gameplay than the 'fun' gameplay.
It starts with reading books, like Tolkien, and how your imagination does so much of the entertaining.
That's why games could get away with basic graphics - like ascii graphics - and simply gameplay and be a ton of fun. Not just fantasy - early star trek games were garbabe, ascii grids you'd fly around and
say fire torpedos at the klingons, but it was fun since we liked star trek. Heck, kid's toys like dolls and soldiers need a lot of imagination.
Game evolution adds more and more and more graphics and content where the player is fed a lot - and sort of spoiled. It's hard to keep the player as engaged - but the player likes the added content.
I remember in EQ, it got to where people would feel like with a new zone, in 5 minutes they were 'done' with it. They'd looked around, seen the mobs, killed them once, done. What helped with that was
adding quests. When you had to kill 10 of this and 10 of that, and get 10 of those items, hours were added to the gameplay in the zone.
That's where the 'feels like a chore' comes from - finding ways to keep players using content for long times. That's a different gameplay than the 'fun' gameplay.
In the earlier days, there was always a new big MMORPG that came a long, and people migrated, and you basically had a reset. Everyone had to relearn the game, and make new friends a long the way. I have tried new games since, but the problem is that they took WoW's solo friendly, mindless group approach, and they just were not fun.
I guess another reason I really like the near requirement to group to enjoy an MMO, is because it always made it easy to join any MMO, and find friends to play with. Everyone making a new character needed friends around their level to easily advance. You just PUG it, and made sure to play well, add people who also played well to your list, and before long, you were grouping with people you know on a regular basis. When everyone is solo or playing in cross server queues, it's very difficult to make new friends. It becomes a lot more about clicks at that point.
It's the people and the the connections that were formed that made these games great. I played WoW long past the point where I had lost interest in the game itself simply because of the friends I had made in game. When WoW started to transition to a more theme park approach with WotLK, specifically TotC and the Argent Tournament and later patch 3.3 and LFD, the goal of playing shifted more towards "get all this stuff done daily" rather than the go explore model that bc and especially vanilla were based on. We started to see this type of content as early as the netherwing dailies and Isle of Quel'Danas.
Yes, grinding resist gear for MC and AQ40 was boring. Yes, farming Naxx40 for all your tank's 4pc sucked. But we did all this because of the people we played with and we had fun doing it with them.
Heh, I'm right there with you. I was in the first guild on my server to break into MC, was hilarious dropping repeatedly to the first two giants over and over, cuz half our people were in greens and the occasional blue. Remember the issues with instancing, half the raid zoning into one instance and being 'perma locked' in that for the remainder of the week?
Still beats the pants off the time dedication required in EQ, even if it feels less epic now.
The first time I had to do this for MC40, I didn't like it. Not so much that it was boring, but more because I saw my stats drop, and that sucked. In future cases, I didn't mind it so much at all, as it gave me purpose to go out and hunt down new gear.
But yeah, I felt the same way with WoW. BC was the last good expansion, and I didn't last as long as you. WotLK was it for me.
the Monk headband quest in EQ .. there where like 4 quests (sorta, headband 1, and 2 and 3.) for each class then it was just kill and gear grind.. But you had to go from one end of map to other depending on where you started, Freeport or Qynos, and yes Highpass Hold and the Orcs and GNOLLS was the grinder.. i corpse ran that one.. die, rez run 10 more feet, repeat.. but i had no idea where i was.. i think i spent 10+ hours getting through my first time.. for a headband! Today i would cry BS at the top of my lungs.. back then.. I bitched but loved every minute of it.. I know I'm jaded today.
That's right, isn't it? No people would do that today but it was incredible then. You could sure get lost for a long time in highpass. That reze run wasn't great with the exp loss...
I recall doing it at about level 7 for the first time. It was quite the adventure, and dodging these massive giants along the way, was quite epic.
We used to form the majority of the guild into two raid groups which was roughly 70ish people, get the other two top raid guilds on the server to do the same, and then go camp the AH in Orgrimmar. We'd be there for hours killing everyone on sight.
And the fighting over the world dragon spawns. Level a lock until you got summon and park it w/ other guildies at the the spawns. Boss spawns and race to summon the guild before another guild got the tag.
Farming whipper root tubers for hours in Felwood.
Wall hoping everywhere to try and get into the blocked areas like Mount Hyjal from Winterspring.
Gryz
Golden Member
- Aug 28, 2010
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Nope, you don't remember correctly. Or more likely, you never knew how it worked.
Don't worry, you were not the only one.Fire resist gear did 2 things.
1) It reduces the chance you get hit by a fire spell. This worked in fixed amount, 0% chance to not get hit, 25%, 50% and 75% to not get hit.
2) When you do get hit, it reduces the amount of damage that got through. The amount was in proportion to how much FR you had.
So yes, even if you have 100 FR and the other rogue had 140 FR, and both would make it so that your chance to get hit by fire spells was 50%, the other rogue would still take less damage.
I've played a rogue in WoW. Doing high dps was the only thing that mattered. I've seen enough other rogues bragging about how high their dps was and how they really didn't need much FR gear. But you know what ? Killing bosses is all about all raid members learning how not to die. That's the only trick. Don't die. And I remember many many boss-fights, where in the end, when the boss was dead, I was standing and there were a whole bunch of rogues and warriors lying dead besides me. And when you look at the damage meters, I would always outdamage the rogues who didn't wear any or much FR gear. Because I had 100% dps-time, and the other melee died halfway the fight.
Ragnaros. But FR was also useful at Magmadar,Geddon and Golemagg. It would allow you much more dps-time.
In BWL at Broodlord Lashlayer I would be guaranteed to out-dps all other melee. Because higher FR would make you resist applications of the boss's debuf. And therefor you need to hide around the corner much less. And if you make a mistake: poof, dead.
Onyxia with FR gear would also be much easier. And much safer.
I loved AQ40. I was in a crappy guild. Very fun, but not with good results. At one point I joined the top Horde guild on the server. Still nothing special, but they were in AQ40 while most guilds couldn't get past the first 1-2 bosses in BWL. The reason they took me in was probably because I had farmed Nature Resist gear on my own. I went into 5-man dungeons and farmed level 40-60 NR-gear solo. (There was quite a bit in Maraudon). When I applied for that guild, I already had 200 NR. And even if that's all shitty gear, it would allow you to be effective in AQ40. WIth no NR-gear, you wouldn't stand a chance against Princess Huhuran.
I loved having a significant number of resist fights. In Vanilla. It would allow you to outsmart other players. Be prepared better. I would give you something to do: acquire more sets for raiding. I remember wandering around solo in BRD. Farming Dark Iron, smelting Dark Iron for guildies, etc. My FR-gear would allow me to solo the fire-elementals. (Remember those ?) Mobs that could easily wipe a 5-man group. But with the right gear, they would be easy.
Later, in TBC and WLK, the best resist gear all came from crafter gear that would require drops from raids. In other words: you could not gather that resist gear yourself, you had to wait for your guild to hand you the materials. That ended the fun of resist gear for me.
Great fun.
I spent a few years of my best gaming years playing WoW.
Too bad Blizzard totally messed it up.
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DEAD DPS IS ZERO DPS!!!
That brings back pain. Yelling at so many people who could never grasp that concept.
Stay tuned for more classics such as "Fire comes in many colors" and "DPS is like riding a bike, don't concentrate on peddling, pay attention to the bus about to hit you"...
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
- 30,383
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- 126
Nope, you don't remember correctly. Or more likely, you never knew how it worked.
I'm pretty sure I knew it at some point as it was part of my job to know that stuff as Rogue class leader. However, given that M'uru was probably the last big resistance fight in WoW... resistances just really aren't thought of much anymore.
I think it was something like 195 vs. 210. It has been years, so I can't really remember, but I do recall us both being close to 200. Although, it does make me wonder what I was missing over him. I know I had that trinket that gave a few resistances, the Onyxia neck, the UBRS ring, and some of the Corehound gear. I wonder if I might have been missing one of the crafted pieces as I believe there was a helm, gloves, pants... and maybe a chest? I remember it being that ugly red color.
I've played a rogue in WoW. Doing high dps was the only thing that mattered. I've seen enough other rogues bragging about how high their dps was and how they really didn't need much FR gear. But you know what ? Killing bosses is all about all raid members learning how not to die. That's the only trick. Don't die. And I remember many many boss-fights, where in the end, when the boss was dead, I was standing and there were a whole bunch of rogues and warriors lying dead besides me. And when you look at the damage meters, I would always outdamage the rogues who didn't wear any or much FR gear. Because I had 100% dps-time, and the other melee died halfway the fight.
Eh, I prefer the "just don't make mistakes" philosophy.
It's kind of like the ICC fight against Sindragosa... that was a fight where you had to properly get around cover, but also break out the person that was encased in ice that was creating said cover. I preferred people that wouldn't tunnel vision and just destroy the ice block too early or fail to DPS it properly to begin with. Along those lines, we never did beat H10-Sindragosa because people kept screwing up. I hated AQ40. It was one of the main reasons why I quit raiding... along with how I never really got along with the group leader. He was the type that told people what to do rather than explaining why to do it. I don't create mindless drones; I create free-thinkers that can act on their own when need be. Anyway, it just seemed like melee got the shaft when it came to AQ40. It wasn't even just the boss encounters, but even the trash was annoying to deal with.
Yeah, I had all of the NR gear... and since I'm a WoW packrat, I might still have it.
If I remember right, there were gloves and boots in Maraudon... one was off the flower boss guy and another was off the crocodile thing. You also had to go to that Horde-only dungeon with the Quillboars to get one piece. I think you also had to get reputation with the Cenarion faction in Silithus to get some gear? If I remember right, I switched from skinning to mining at some point to mess around in BRD. (I was a typical Leatherworker/Skinning Rogue.) It wasn't just Dark Iron nodes that I'd go for, but I'd also have fun with the treasure room trying to get the Heart of the Mountain.
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