Anyone installed Novell 6 yet?

[Scarpozzi]

My co-worker installed 6 this morning and ran into some problems...inheritance, in general, was screwy from the start. You could add a user from any container and they had admin rights... I'm going to reinstall and see what happens the second time around, but I watched the whole installation and nothing seemed to be done incorrectly. Any thoughts?

 

[Scarpozzi]

Doesn't look like we have many Novell Admins here. Just for an update. I went back and installed Novell 6 a couple of times to get all the OUs in place to make it look as much like our actual network as possible (we'll be doing migration as soon as we buy a new server). Just for the record....Console One is VERY slow and it's best to stick with NW Admin. I also have to say that 6 appears to have some nice features with the remote manager (web based server stat utility), but full functionality requires a lot of RAM and a lot of processor to use it on a network of any decent size. I'll be installing Zenworks and starting tests on that... If anyone has any advice or suggestions, let me know....Thanks!

 

[SaigonK]

The I-folder feature and the "clientless client' are going to be big options for alot of people!
When you got the inheritance issue, had you setup any policies for your containers yet?

Console-One has always been a pig, try using the DHCP manager (if you dont already) it is 10 times worse!
We are in the process of bringing up our Cluster server then we will be going full Zen for Desktops on our client machines, mangement will be MUCH easier! Especially with the Zen Imaging compnent, though we may have to go get another terrabyte of space!

Our next move is to get all our locations under one plan and go to using E-Directory so our Windows 2k sites can finally be insync with our Novell sites.

 

[Nothinman]

One of our guys installed NetWare 6 at work and it's worked well for him, I'm not sure but I think our new tree will be running it instead of 5.1.

Just for the record....Console One is VERY slow and it's best to stick with NW Admin.

Run it on Linux, he says it's a lot faster there =)

Everything SaigonK said sounds strangely familiar to what our company is doing too.... hmm where do you work? =)

Except we're not doing the Zen imaging, we're still using Ghost for that.

 

[Scarpozzi]

<< Console-One has always been a pig, try using the DHCP manager (if you dont already) it is 10 times worse! We are in the process of bringing up our Cluster server then we will be going full Zen for Desktops on our client machines, mangement will be MUCH easier! Especially with the Zen Imaging compnent, though we may have to go get another terrabyte of space!
>>



The inheritance issue we were having was from the containers themselves I believe. I ended up fixing it by restructuring the tree (he had put all the users in the O instead of the OU.

I agree as well...very familiar sounding...we're going to try to get Zen up and running, but we're not sure what kind of firepower we'll need for the large number of clients we'll be serving it up to (hopefully by summer). I work for a University and we have about 4000+ computers on the network here not counting student accounts. I'm not even sure if that's an accurate assumption since we're growing so fast.

 

[SaigonK]

Nothinman - if ya had your profile enabled I could tell ya!

We are also still using Ghost, upgraded to version 7.5 recently, not much changed on that end.
Netware 6 will be sweet, the only thing i dont like is the Java based management components, they are just way to slow for me.

Migrations to a cluster will be a pain in the ass you can be sure, imagine that you have to update all your client machines to the latest rev, re-org your apps, then transfer all the data over. Although i think a backup of a previous server then restore of all the data drives would work fine, but I am not sure that any effective policies would come over correctly.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Migrations to a cluster will be tough. We think we're going to attempt it in the test bed and see what we can find out. I'm hoping it won't be too much of a headache, but I'm guessing you're right and it will be a tough one. It's just worth having a cluster for increased fault tolerance and load balancing.

 

[SaigonK]

Absolutely! But as you said fault tolerance is the key!
if we have downtime for say.....30 minutes...we lose big $$ in productivity and such.....

Once our E-directory is in place, then we can truly manage all our remote sites!

 

[Scarpozzi]

True...fault tolerance is the key, but in truth, we're currently running a Dell Poweredge 6300 that we purchased in 1998. It has 4 Xeon PII 450s, Hotswap Raid 5, 3 power supplies, 2 nics....that server will never go down unless it gets hit by a nuke. We usually only reboot it once every 2 months just to reset it and avoid quirks with old client programs we still use. I can only imagine what we can get approved when we do the migration. I'm researching ifolder right now and all of its management features, but I'm still not able to find out how the "no client" networking works. I just haven't found what I'm looking for in the reading yet and it certainly didn't have a very large manual with 6. There are sooo many features with this. If you ever get a chance to check the remote management tools, they're pretty cool. You can check all your Novell server status from one web page. Neat stuff.

 

[Nothinman]

Nothinman - if ya had your profile enabled I could tell ya!

Didn't realize it was disabled, should be fixed now =)

Netware 6 will be sweet, the only thing i dont like is the Java based management components, they are just way to slow for me.

Do you have the Sun JDK installed? One of our Novell guys here said it was noticeably faster on Linux and even the NetWare console than on Windows.

It has 4 Xeon PII 450s, Hotswap Raid 5, 3 power supplies, 2 nics....that server will never go down unless it gets hit by a nuke

4 processors? All our NetWare boxes are UP and the cpu time only gets relatively high when the backups are running, do yours actually get utilized?

I'm researching ifolder right now and all of its management features, but I'm still not able to find out how the "no client" networking works

From what we saw it looks like it's just a SMB server, perhaps Samba although if it is they don't give them credit.

 

[Scarpozzi]

We're a fairly large network and don't use NT for file sharing. This is a University and its primary source of file/print sharing is Novell right now. We're so pumped about Zenworks and the power it has that we're going to upgrade to 6 and stay a Win2k/Novell network even though most people are dropping Novell since Win2K has does file and print shares for free.

As far as using all four processors, I don't really know how the performance is on that server because I'm not the primary server admin for it....yet. I am one of the admins, but I will hopefully be bumped into the spot upon the new fiscal year.

 

[SaigonK]

Wow a big server for novell!
Our primary is a Dual PIII-733, not near as tough as the one you have.
The JDK might make things quicker, but i have always thought Novell's management tools were to slow, probably the old P166/Window NT 4 machine im using!


I use the Remote management now, one of our remot offices has Zenworks fully implemented (we bought them and could put in a server anyway we wanted so we went with the best option) let me tell you we support them from 1500 miles away and without Rmeote Management i dont know what we would do, it rox!

 

[Scarpozzi]

Nice move. I just got Zenworks installed before lunch and I've been playing around with it... Unfortunately nwadmin didn't load correctly so I may need to do this over. The server locked up in mid install and I think I may have to work on this a while or start over...

As far as that server goes. It was especially nice when 450s were considered top of the line. I know the servers we'll be using for clustering have already been purchased. I believe they're dual 1.5 PIV's which will be clustered. I hope it works well!

 

[SaigonK]

I would say so!
I think our Cluster server is just dual PIII 1.1ghz cpu's and a ton of hardrive space and RAM.

 

[chuck2002]

We are making the migration from good old NW 4.11 to Win2k and Active Dir. Novell is too much of a gamble right now. We can't find good, qualified, and local NW 5 or 6 Engineers to help us in times of turmoil; we don't know if they are going to be around in 3 years; and Win 2k is just sooo much easier to work with that it isn't worth it for us to keep Novell around.
It's a darn shame, but the truth hurts.
Bye, bye Big Red.....

 

[Nothinman]

Novell is too much of a gamble right now. We can't find good, qualified, and local NW 5 or 6 Engineers to help us in times of turmoil; we don't know if they are going to be around in 3 years; and Win 2k is just sooo much easier to work with that it isn't worth it for us to keep Novell around.

That's too funny, I can understand the lack of qualified Novell administrators, but saying Windows is easier to work with is just plain wrong. Sure the it's all 32-bit color point and click, but that doesn't do much for you when you're DCs are blue screening and you can't figure out why.

 

[SaigonK]

have fun migrating form Neaware 4.11 to AD! I wouldnt want that project, you are going to need to get some third party software to mange the migration for you or end up doing it all manually.
You're best bet would be to upgrade to Netware 5.1, NDS-8 and then install E-Directory. Put up your 2k servers then you could ocnnect to them and replicate across the whole server farm in one shot. Then if you decide Novell isnt for you, then you're already setup to migrate you data, apps and users.

 

[chuck2002]

Ya, it is gonna be an ugly task, but win2k has migration from NDS to AD built in, along with that is file permissions. I might be stupid for say this as i haven't attempted the migration yet, but it ought to be fairly smooth using the migration tools.

Netware vs. win2k and ease of administration: I just have one thing to say: Market share.
I am a NW 5 CNE and can tell you that I really dislike working with netware. Shoot, when i was in training, half the labs for nw 5 didn't work at all. If you can't get it to work in a lab with a knowledgable instructor, what makes you think you can get to work live?

 

[Nothinman]

Netware vs. win2k and ease of administration: I just have one thing to say: Market share.

Then you just became part of a much bigger problem, choosing what to base your company off of based on marketing and marketshare instead of technological superiority. Even though NDS is the better system, you choose AD because 'everyone else is', sad. How is Novell supposed to stand a chance with people like you around?

 

[SaigonK]

80% of OFrtune 500 companies use Novell as their NOS.
80-85% of Fortune 1000 companies use Novell as their NOS.
One of the largest networks in the world happens to be the biggest Novell netowrk in the world..The United States Post Office.


Microsoft is starting to realize that in order to compete they need more than easy management and pretty menus for their servers.
They do NOT own the market when it comes to NOS...they are taking a piece..not eating the hwole pie.

 

[Santa]

I am a run a Microsoft shop here at work but not because I feel it is more common or superior but its what I know and am good at.

Obviously there are people on both side of the fence and it comes down to what YOU like and can implement well.

I also wouldn't base opinnions on a training course also since I had a Cisco course where the teacher was completley stupid and the labs and routers were not functioning correctly because he didn't know how to configure and set them up.

I dropped the course and ended up taking it elsewhere where I found a great teacher that did know what he was talking about and this reconfirms my thinking about what you are comfortable in is the way to go.

I know for some though this may hurt you since the job market in your area my lend itself one way or the other but obviously the more comfortable you get (by choice or forcing yourselt) the easier its going to make your day to day life.

 

[SaigonK]

Santa: It is all about what you are comfortable with...from your perspective.
I think we were trying to state what might be more secure, easier to mange etc etc

 

[Scarpozzi]

I don't see most corporate environments needing Novell anymore, but this is only due to the fact they usually would rather not load the client software. Also, there'd be little sense in running Novell and NT/2000 when you have to pay more for the Novell users. However, the companies that used it on a large scale and are truly concerned with data securiy, Novell is just the way to go. Novell has almost zero security holes compared to Microsoft who is just now admitting that they're not the best company to select for security. The cool thing about Netware 6 is the licensing. They don't require server-end licenses so you can have as many servers as you wish. Also, Ifolder is really cool. I spent a couple of hours testing it out friday and I can report that it's awesome. It's like redundancy for each client even though they're saving their files on their comptuer... You have an Ifolder that synchronizes with the server and has a copy of everything in your folder on the client and the server....then when you go to different clients the files will be sent to you at each client. Really cool stuff....especially for extended home computing. It works much like Samba and (surprisingly enough) Novell doesn't give Samba any credit for the innovation...