Anyone here read 'State of Fear' by Michael Crichton?

ajf3

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Gotta say, it's a somewhat juvenile story line, but that may be intentional so that casual readers can get through it easily...

Not sure what all to put in here so as not to spoil parts for future readers, but story aside - the concepts and ideas are interesting.

What really drove home the idea that there may be an organized sham-campaign going on was the whole comparison/overview of the eugenics movement - which I don't remember hearing anything about (until now).


abc review
 

dmcowen674

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Originally posted by: ajf3


Gotta say, it's a somewhat juvenile story line, but that may be intentional so that casual readers can get through it easily...

Not sure what all to put in here so as not to spoil parts for future readers, but story aside - the concepts and ideas are interesting.

What really drove home the idea that there may be an organized sham-campaign going on was the whole comparison/overview of the eugenics movement - which I don't remember hearing anything about (until now).


abc review

I don't know if there is a concerted "movement".

All I know is that I have lived on the water back in 1962-1990.

Then moved inland for 14 years and now back on the water and I see the Sea Level is up significantly.

There is a lot of what used to be land now underwater, OK if you are Captain Nemo or a fish, though.

We don't need the Polar Ice caps anyway so it isn't a big deal, just less land and more violent storms.
 

Vic

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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I don't know if there is a concerted "movement".

All I know is that I have lived on the water back in 1962-1990.

Then moved inland for 14 years and now back on the water and I see the Sea Level is up significantly.

There is a lot of what used to be land now underwater, OK if you are Captain Nemo or a fish, though.

We don't need the Polar Ice caps anyway so it isn't a big deal, just less land and more violent storms.
The sea level isn't rising in southern Louisiana, the ground is sinking. And is a whole other issue, completely unrelated to global warming. The damned and levied Mississippi no longer floods every year and dumps its silt there anymore.

Looks to be good book. Naturally, global warming is real and entirely man-made... I mean, it's not like the earth's climate has every fluctuated on its own before, like went through a "ice age" or anything like that before... ;)
 

ajf3

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Interesting that you mention that point... did you read the book? My understanding was that rising seal levels were a given too, but here's an exerpt from the book... he's footnoted many of the claims made during the story...


?I?ll give you the journal references.*Now then?sea-level rise? Was that the next threat you mentioned??

?Yes.?

?Sea level is indeed rising.?

?Ah-hah!?

?As it has been for the last six thousand years, ever since the start of the Holocene. Sea level has been rising at the rate of ten to twenty centimeters?that?s four to eight inches?every hundred years.?(1)

?But it?s rising faster now.?

?Actually, not.?

?Satellites prove it.?

?Actually, they don?t.??

?Computer models prove it?s rising faster.?(2)

?Computer models can?t prove anything, Ted. A prediction can?t ever be proof?it hasn?t happened yet. And computer models have failed to accurately predict the last ten or fifteen years. But if you want to believe in them anyway, there is no arguing with faith. Now, what was next on your list? Extreme weather?again, not true. Numerous studies show there is no increase.?*

?Look,? Ted said, ?you may enjoy putting me down, but the fact is, lots of people think there will be more extreme weather, including more hurricanes and tornadoes and cyclones, in the future.?

?Yes, indeed, lots of people think so. But scientific studies do not bear them out.(3) That?s why wedo science, Ted, to see if our opinions can be verified in the real world, or whether we are just having fantasies.?

?All these hurricanes are not fantasies.?

Kenner sighed. He flipped open his laptop.

?What are you doing??

?One moment,? Kenner said. ?Let me bring it up.?

US Hurricane Strikes by Decade 1900?2004

?Here is the actual data, Ted,? Kenner said. ?US hurricane strikes over the last hundred years are clearly not increasing. And similarly, extreme weather is not more frequent globally. The data simply do not agree with you. Now, you also mentioned El Niño events.?

?Yes??

?As you know, El Niño is a global weather pattern that begins when ocean temperatures along the west coast of South America remain above normal for several months. Once it?s triggered, El Niño lasts about a year and a half, affecting weather around the world. El Niño occurs roughly every four years?twenty-three times in the last century. And it has been occurring for thousands of years. So it long precedes any claim of global warming.(5) But what threat does El Niño represent to the US, Ted? There was a major El Niño in 1998.?

?Floods, crops ruined, like that.?

?All that happened. But the net economic effect of the last El Niño was a gain of fifteen billion dollars because of a longer growing season and less use of winter heating oil. That?s after deducting $1.5 billion for flooding and excess rain in California. Still a net benefit.?

?I?d like to see that study,? Bradley said.

?I?ll make sure you get it.(6) Because of course it also suggests that if global warming really does occur, it will probably benefit most nations of the world.?

?But not all. ?

?No, Ted. Not all.?

?So what exactly is your point?? Bradley said. ?You?re saying that we don?t need to pay any attention to the environment, that we can just leave it alone and let industry pollute and everything will be hunkydory??



For a [moment, it looked to Sarah as if Kenner would get angry, but he did not. He said, ?If you oppose the death penalty, does it also mean you are in favor of doing nothing at all about crime??

?No,? Ted said.

?You can oppose the death penalty but still favor punishing criminals.?

?Yes. Of course.?

?Then I can say that global warming is not a threat but still favor environmental controls, can?t I??

?But it doesn?t sound like you are saying that.?

Kenner sighed.



Sarah was listening to this exchange, thinking Bradley wasn?t really hearing what Kenner had to say. As if to prove her thoughts, Bradley continued: ?Well? Aren?t you saying that the environment needs no protection from us? Isn?t that what you arereally saying??

Kenner said, ?No,? in a way that suggested that the conversation was over.


 

Vic

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What the agendists (of all types) say is, "If you're not with us and toeing precisely our line, then you are against us."
Reminds me of religious groups and the bickering they have amongst each other.
 

ajf3

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That was a major point in the book... the political agendas behind the science/media endorsements.
 

dmcowen674

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Originally posted by: Vic
The sea level isn't rising in southern Louisiana, the ground is sinking.

Typical expected RRR FLL Bullsh1t answer.

I wasn't talking about the idiots living in the 17.5 feet and going down, sinking old silt bowl in New Orleans. I live on the mainland U.S. coastline.
 

Vic

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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
The sea level isn't rising in southern Louisiana, the ground is sinking.
Typical expected RRR FLL Bullsh1t answer.

I wasn't talking about the idiots living in the 17.5 feet and going down, sinking old silt bowl in New Orleans. I live on the mainland U.S. coastline.
:roll:

Do you think that coastline has ALWAYS looked the way it does now? That it has never changed? Of course not, right? So why do you think that it would stop changing now?


And (irony of ironies) I don't have some "RRR FLL" agenda. What Crichton is condemning here (and I agree) are the people with agendas, like this "RRR FLL" and yourself.
 

dmcowen674

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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
The sea level isn't rising in southern Louisiana, the ground is sinking.
Typical expected RRR FLL Bullsh1t answer.

I wasn't talking about the idiots living in the 17.5 feet and going down, sinking old silt bowl in New Orleans. I live on the mainland U.S. coastline.
:roll:

Do you think that coastline has ALWAYS looked the way it does now? That it has never changed? Of course not, right? So why do you think that it would stop changing now?

And (irony of ironies) I don't have some "RRR FLL" agenda. What Crichton is condemning here (and I agree) are the people with agendas, like this "RRR FLL" and yourself.

What "Agenda" do I have???

Of course the Earth has been and always will change but you ignore the fact that man is bowling down more trees than anytime in Earth's history and expect that to have no impact???
 

ajf3

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Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Of course the Earth has been and always will change but you ignore the fact that man is bowling down more trees than anytime in Earth's history and expect that to have no impact???

Another big point in the book... you should check it out.

We can speculate, but we don't know what kind of impact it will have, nor if that (possible) impact is going to be a good thing or a bad thing for mankind.

Native americans would periodically burn down whole forests to fertilize and stimulate the land... now we spend huge amounts of money to stop wildfires in nonpopulated areas - quite possibly, that money may be better spent feeding people in 3rd world nations or on some other known to be beneficial task.

 

loup garou

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I keep trying to read it, but end up putting it down for other books. I need to try to make an effort, because the subject is interesting, but the story is plodding and dull.

If anyone is interested in the phenomenon Vic is talking about concerning the Mississippi River, they should read John M. Barry's Rising Tide, and excellent account of the Flood of 1927, with lots of history of man's manipulations of the Mississippi and how it affects the US today.
 

Vic

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Originally posted by: ajf3
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Of course the Earth has been and always will change but you ignore the fact that man is bowling down more trees than anytime in Earth's history and expect that to have no impact???
Another big point in the book... you should check it out.

We can speculate, but we don't know what kind of impact it will have, nor if that (possible) impact is going to be a good thing or a bad thing for mankind.

Native americans would periodically burn down whole forests to fertilize and stimulate the land... now we spend huge amounts of money to stop wildfires in nonpopulated areas - quite possibly, that money may be better spent feeding people in 3rd world nations or on some other known to be beneficial task.
Stopping those natural forest fires is probably the worst thing we could have done. The forests are drastically weakened, with far too much undergrowth, to the point where they are flash fires waiting to happen. Now our only way to stop the fires and still get the trees is to clear-cut.

The point, Dave, is that we have no way of knowing what impact our actions will have on nature. Arrogantly, we always think so, but inevitably we are always wrong. For example, 60 years ago environmentalists were huge on forest fire prevention, and it seemed like a great idea, think of poor torched Smokey the Bear. Now we know that stopping the natural forest fires was a disaster -- exactly the wrong course of action. Who's to say that next action we try to take will be any better? What we do know so far is that whenever and whatever we do to interfere only makes things worse.
 

0roo0roo

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it was interesting, he probably has a point. amusing how amazon.com has lots of glowing reviews... amazon.uk they just hate it lol:)