Anyone here ever have a serious knee injury? How about semi-serious? Symptoms inside

[marmasatt]

So now that I've got you in here, give me some advice. The ridiculous thing about this is that I'm going to see an orthopedic.....tomorrow......for my rotator cuff/shoulder thing I've got. But I digress.

I play in an indoor soccer league. I'm 40, active, not overweight, and relatively healthy - other than occasional sports injuries. After a hard playoff game a few weeks ago, my knee felt absolutely terrible. I had this throbbing/pinching on both the inside and outside of my knee. It was tender, swollen and made me limp for days. My knee also felt fairly unstable. I never heard a pop, and I never recall doing anything "acute" on the field. I just felt terrible after the game. Never anything like it in years quite frankly. We play on Turf which is really quite unforgiving. Worse than a floor actually. Once you plant your foot, your body had better be going the right way. Knee injuries are fairly common for our age really. Someone literally goes down every season.

So now 2 weeks later, I don't know what to think. It is still tender. Not really unstable. I get periodic acute pain (like pin pricks I'd say) under my knee cap itself. Both medial and collateral ligaments areas are still sore. It is not too painful, but it's very awkward feeling. The constant sensation I have is if my daughter stuck a big sticker on my kneecap (like 2" x 2") and when I walk, it feels like something isn't right under there. Like it's not flowing as smoothly as it should. I walk around all day feeling like I've got a big sticker on my knee (or perhaps like a rug burn kind of thing)...only there is no rug burn or sticker there. IIRC I have a microtear in my medial meniscus (from college) on this knee already.

However I will stipulate that I can run - and even ran a road race. So does that give me hope for not needing surgery? I'd imagine that if it was an ACL-then I would know it, correct? What's my prognosis? I'm already on Piroxicam and occasionally vicodin for shoulder pain. If I start pounding Glucosamine or something, is that going to assist in recovery? Sorry for the lengthy post. I'm just trying to be specific as possible.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[HNNstyle]

You should seriously stop doing any type of sporting activity on hard surfaces. You should not run a road race. Pounding your knees on the pavement can really destroy what you have. The indoor soccer league probably isn't helping either. There's a reason why soccer is meant to be played on grass. Stick to sand, gravel, dirt trail, and grass that's as soft as a golf course. Neighborhood grass generally doesn't work so well. Tread mills are fine too.


Are you wearing the right type of shoes? I don't mean any shoe that claims to be jogging shoes. I mean shoes that are made for your type of feet which is determined by over pronation, under pronation, or normal pronation. That's the technical term for people who have flat feet or don't have flat feet.


Are you building muscles in your legs? This is one of the key things people forget to do when using cardio to stay fit. In your case, you are in an indoor soccer league which is pretty much the same thing. Building muscles around your knee will put less strain on your knees when you do activities involving your legs.


Edit: Keep in mind that the drugs you are taking for your pain is not a cure. It's just a pain reliever.

Edit 2: Made a correction to some speech areas.

 

[marmasatt]

You know, if I had a dollar for every time I hear "at your age, are you sure you should still be playing full contact sports..." My wife, my dad, my doctor, my chiro. Sorry, I just don't agree. Do you know how many guys over 40 still play basketball or soccer, or do the pounding of triathlons, or even marathons. I do believe it's the exception and not the rule. But for petes sakes, I'm not dead. But I do hear you. And as I said, I'm fully aware it's unforgiving. I just don't know what to do, because I'm not giving it up, and I play on a turf field during the outdoor season as well.

To answer your questions, I'm not wearing specific shoes whatsoever. I'm wearing standard Puma flats. None that have any degree of specificity to me as a particular athlete (ie pronater, wide foot, etc). I do work out my legs, but like everyone else I do not like to. I suppose I could be doing more. I kind of do the opposite. I let my soccer keep my legs in shape to be honest. May be something to think about at this point.

 

[HNNstyle]

Hey hey hey again! Sorry, didn't mean to offend you earlier. Probably shouldn't have bought up the age thing since it really doesn't matter what age you are if you want to destroy your knees. I use to jog 20+ miles a week when I was younger and destroyed my knees on the pavement. I had to stay off of them for 3 months for them to heal but they never fully recovered. The outcome for me is that I can't walk as fast as most people and my knees will hurt if i stay on pavement too long even if i wear the right type of shoes.

Recently, I just started jogging again to get back into shape and obviously my knees started to hurt but i solved this problem by lifting heavy weights. I do squats and leg lifts at least twice a week. The result is that the pain is virtually all gone.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You know, if I had a dollar for every time I hear "at your age, are you sure you should still be playing full contact sports..." My wife, my dad, my doctor, my chiro. Sorry, I just don't agree. Do you know how many guys over 40 still play basketball or soccer, or do the pounding of triathlons, or even marathons. I do believe it's the exception and not the rule. But for petes sakes, I'm not dead. But I do hear you. And as I said, I'm fully aware it's unforgiving. I just don't know what to do, because I'm not giving it up, and I play on a turf field during the outdoor season as well.

These guys salute you!

I'm still playing rugby at nearly 33, and I intend to keep playing as long as gawdamned possible.

Sorry, I can't help you with any similar knee symptoms (knock on wood), but I do think there might be merit to the previous poster's suggestions about the playing surface you exercise on. The fact that we play on turf/grass might be one of the very reasons I don't have any knee injury history to share with you... :hmm:

 

[RampantAndroid]

So now that I've got you in here, give me some advice. The ridiculous thing about this is that I'm going to see an orthopedic.....tomorrow......for my rotator cuff/shoulder thing I've got. But I digress.

I play in an indoor soccer league. I'm 40, active, not overweight, and relatively healthy - other than occasional sports injuries. After a hard playoff game a few weeks ago, my knee felt absolutely terrible. I had this throbbing/pinching on both the inside and outside of my knee. It was tender, swollen and made me limp for days. My knee also felt fairly unstable. I never heard a pop, and I never recall doing anything "acute" on the field. I just felt terrible after the game. Never anything like it in years quite frankly. We play on Turf which is really quite unforgiving. Worse than a floor actually. Once you plant your foot, your body had better be going the right way. Knee injuries are fairly common for our age really. Someone literally goes down every season.

So now 2 weeks later, I don't know what to think. It is still tender. Not really unstable. I get periodic acute pain (like pin pricks I'd say) under my knee cap itself. Both medial and collateral ligaments areas are still sore. It is not too painful, but it's very awkward feeling. The constant sensation I have is if my daughter stuck a big sticker on my kneecap (like 2" x 2") and when I walk, it feels like something isn't right under there. Like it's not flowing as smoothly as it should. I walk around all day feeling like I've got a big sticker on my knee (or perhaps like a rug burn kind of thing)...only there is no rug burn or sticker there. IIRC I have a microtear in my medial meniscus (from college) on this knee already.

However I will stipulate that I can run - and even ran a road race. So does that give me hope for not needing surgery? I'd imagine that if it was an ACL-then I would know it, correct? What's my prognosis? I'm already on Piroxicam and occasionally vicodin for shoulder pain. If I start pounding Glucosamine or something, is that going to assist in recovery? Sorry for the lengthy post. I'm just trying to be specific as possible.

Thanks for any feedback.

I had a bad knee injury from snowboarding 2 years ago that took 6 months or more to no longer hurt. Didn't see a doctor, and the knee is still a little wonky.

I messed up one ankle on one of my skydive landings this august an I'm still in pain. Going up or down hills for a while and my ankle buckles (doing it at first I'm fine) - I had two options with my doctor: skip to a cortisone shot and see if that did it - there could be further damage requiring surgery, and the shot could make things worse - or get an MRI and be sure what is wrong.

If your insurance will cover it, just get an MRI done. Don't risk permanent damage.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

You know, if I had a dollar for every time I hear "at your age, are you sure you should still be playing full contact sports..." My wife, my dad, my doctor, my chiro. Sorry, I just don't agree. Do you know how many guys over 40 still play basketball or soccer, or do the pounding of triathlons, or even marathons. I do believe it's the exception and not the rule. But for petes sakes, I'm not dead. But I do hear you. And as I said, I'm fully aware it's unforgiving. I just don't know what to do, because I'm not giving it up, and I play on a turf field during the outdoor season as well.

To answer your questions, I'm not wearing specific shoes whatsoever. I'm wearing standard Puma flats. None that have any degree of specificity to me as a particular athlete (ie pronater, wide foot, etc). I do work out my legs, but like everyone else I do not like to. I suppose I could be doing more. I kind of do the opposite. I let my soccer keep my legs in shape to be honest. May be something to think about at this point.

I definitely don't agree that age dictates your activity level, but your potential injury should. The symptoms you're describing later in your post (pin pricks under knee cap, pain under knee cap, etc) line up with patellar maltracking and chrondromalacia. That can be degenerative and occur over time. It, however, should not create a feeling of instability, unless you're having a lot of pain inhibition of your musculature.

So if it's patellar maltracking, that means your patella is moving improperly on its articulation with the femur. That can come about as a result of weak foot or hip musculature, foot deformities, tightness of the structures around your knee, or poor motor recruitment. You definitely don't need surgery for that and could easily address that by visiting a physical therapist. You can talk to your ortho about that. Optimally, you could just get a prescription for PT for both your shoulder and knee from your ortho. Honestly, if it's not feeling unstable now, I don't think you had ACL/PCL/MCL trauma. If you gain true instability in the knee, it stays forever. The ortho and PT will utilize the same functional tests to make sure that's the case. I definitely foresee it being a fixable issue, but either can tell you one way or another.

 

[marmasatt]

These guys salute you!

I'm still playing rugby at nearly 33, and I intend to keep playing as long as gawdamned possible.

Thanks for the words and the link!

 

[marmasatt]

Thanks everyone.

Yes SC. I would call it perhaps awkward. There are strange sensations, tenderness, dull pain. But at this point, I would not add "painful" nor "unstable" to like the front of the list of descriptions. I get more clicking then ever, even though it always has. So by virtue of the fact that I can still remain active/exercise - In your opinion it's not showing signs of a serious structural problem? (Whereas when you tear your ACL or Achilles, "you know it" kind of thing). I know you can't diagnose. But I'm fairly certain I did *something*.. How about glucosamine. Is that hogwash or are you a believer?

 

[highland145]

OP your knees don't care how old you are. Genetics, damage you've done, the sports you play....are all factors.

<--ACL reconstruction 1980, I was 16. Meniscus tears 1984 and 1985. Haven't run/lifted/racquet ball since because of swelling/pain. Biking became my main cardio. The last couple of years, I've had to go from a pedal masher to a more spinning style because of increased swelling/pain. The elliptical doesn't cause any problems at all but my already skinny legs have become pencil-ish.

Sometimes, my knee feels "mushy". Not really painful but like there's some swelling making it feel unstable. Usually because I've done too much. Ice/dmso.

Fish oil has been the biggest help. This article suggests 6 grams/day which is what I've been taking.

Glucosamine, I have no idea but I've been taking it since the mid 90's. May just be throwing my $$ away but I'll chance it for even a little benefit. I've got a 10 year old to keep up with.

I wish you the best.

HNN and SC :thumbsup:

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks everyone.

Yes SC. I would call it perhaps awkward. There are strange sensations, tenderness, dull pain. But at this point, I would not add "painful" nor "unstable" to like the front of the list of descriptions. I get more clicking then ever, even though it always has. So by virtue of the fact that I can still remain active/exercise - In your opinion it's not showing signs of a serious structural problem? (Whereas when you tear your ACL or Achilles, "you know it" kind of thing). I know you can't diagnose. But I'm fairly certain I did *something*.. How about glucosamine. Is that hogwash or are you a believer?

I'm a believer in glucosamine for longevity. However, glucosamine won't fix bad joint mechanics. You actually need to modify that by fixing some things via stretching, strengthening, mobilization, possible orthotic intevention, etc. The clicking is also common with patellar maltracking. Honestly, I think it would be worth it (and would improve your quality of physical activity) if you took some time and visited a physical therapist. I've seen this pretty commonly and it responds great to physical therapy.

 

[marmasatt]

This is hilarious. I had my appointment last night. The ortho is a former olympic power lifter, Rhazib Khaund. He is the team Dr for a few local sports teams. Anyway, asked him if I could get "two for one" since I was in there for my shoulder and he agreed. Basically didn't think I had any structural damage but just a case of patellar tendonitis. He thinks strengthening the quad will help.

In other words: "Here's your prescription for Midol, now stop being such a freakin' pussy."

 

[dardarla]

What your talking about sounds somewhat similar to a situation we discused in an anatomy and physiology class. One student said she had tenderness is one leg but not the other- she was a runner. Teacher said it could be a built up impact injury or something because she is not balancing her weight between the two legs and so has put more pressure on one of the joints. As well, she had been increasing the legnth/intensity of her work out too fast. Teacher recommended that she ice the joint and cut back on the amount of running she was doing- as well he wanted her to pay attention to which side she might be favoring. Because your doing soccer maybe you are approaching from one side of the field consistantly or are otherwise putting an uneven work load on your legs.

hope that helps? Best of luck! I've had ongoing knee problems myself (just not like yours) so I know how much of a pain they can be.

 

[Unheard]

I tore my lateral meniscus playing goalie in hockey. It wasn't a constant pain, but when it came, you knew it was hurt. Had it trimmed up about 2 years ago, took about 3 months to get back on the ice.

 

[wheresmybacon]

I played soccer competitively my whole life, played in college, then played in men's leagues on and off until I was around 28. The worst knee injury I ever had was a sprained MCL. I did some leg strengthening work to get my hamstrings in balance with my quads...I still struggle with hamstring problems, but since I no longer play competitively my knee problems are gone.

I think it's great you still play @ 40. I'm 38 now and just don't have the drive anymore, nor do I want to subject myself to serious injury which would stop me from working.

Running and weights are my thing now, although I know I will coach and play casually again.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

This is hilarious. I had my appointment last night. The ortho is a former olympic power lifter, Rhazib Khaund. He is the team Dr for a few local sports teams. Anyway, asked him if I could get "two for one" since I was in there for my shoulder and he agreed. Basically didn't think I had any structural damage but just a case of patellar tendonitis. He thinks strengthening the quad will help.

In other words: "Here's your prescription for Midol, now stop being such a freakin' pussy."

Well, that's great, but patellar tendonitis doesn't just show up for no reason. Patellar mobility plays a huge role there and could be causing dual symptoms. Patellar tendonitis DOES NOT cause symptoms below the kneecap, unless there's a mass amount of inflammation. In addition to that, hip extensor strength (glutes, hamstrings) or activation tends to be much less in those with patellar tendonitis. You're essentially overusing your quads, but the tendon is the weakest link. This isn't something that you should just push through. Either way, you should definitely start working on your glute strength and patellar mobility (if it doesn't move well). If you feel significant pain (more than a 2-3 out of 10), you need to stop and decrease the intensity of that exercise. It won't go away unless you do so. I'm saying this because a lot of people think they're doing something wrong if it doesn't go away. I've seen it lead to complete cessation of activity with the patient not knowing where to go or what to do. Prevent that from happening. Honestly, as I said, a physical therapist will maximize your recovery, but you can try yourself too if you're good at self-regulating.