Anyone here complete a PMI certification for project management?

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox
It's yet another useless certification. The only good thing about it is when the project fails, you have a nice document to deflect blame. These people are only interested in the process, not the result.

BUT, if you can make yourself preach it, it is good coin.

Wrong, and you obviously aren't a project manager or have an axe to grind. It requires something like 6,000 hours PM experience plus a bachelor's degree plus 35 hours education plus a test.

Our PMO requires PM's to obtain their PMP, and we only hire those that either have a PMP or are qualified to take the exam.

I have it...but I have been doing pm before all these certifications popped up...it is just another set of rules to follow. Makes it easier when you don't know where you are going.

So when your projects go wrong, you invite everyone to look at your certificate and say "see, it wasn't my fault!"?

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox
It's yet another useless certification. The only good thing about it is when the project fails, you have a nice document to deflect blame. These people are only interested in the process, not the result.

BUT, if you can make yourself preach it, it is good coin.

Wrong, and you obviously aren't a project manager or have an axe to grind. It requires something like 6,000 hours PM experience plus a bachelor's degree plus 35 hours education plus a test.

Our PMO requires PM's to obtain their PMP, and we only hire those that either have a PMP or are qualified to take the exam.

I have it...but I have been doing pm before all these certifications popped up...it is just another set of rules to follow. Makes it easier when you don't know where you are going.

So when your projects go wrong, you invite everyone to look at your certificate and say "see, it wasn't my fault!"?

That is basically what that plan is good for. No, I do not invite them to look at the cert, since I don't even hang any certs. They day I need to depend on stupid pieces of paper to prove my worth is the day I kill myself.

Think about this: say there is 2 possible outcomes, success or failure. In case of success, no one cares about the plan. In case of failure, people start pointing fingers and they go to the plan and say "hey I did my part", which really doesn't help anything other than blame deflection. Bottom line, the sucker failed. Learn from your failure and move on. All the bullshit in the risk management section obviously failed or your project would be a success.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is a bad idea to follow PMI's idea, I am just saying it is not the only way and to me (personally) I have better things to do with my time. I am more interested in the result rather than the process.

Another possible explanation is I have only met the PM posers.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox
It's yet another useless certification. The only good thing about it is when the project fails, you have a nice document to deflect blame. These people are only interested in the process, not the result.

BUT, if you can make yourself preach it, it is good coin.

Wrong, and you obviously aren't a project manager or have an axe to grind. It requires something like 6,000 hours PM experience plus a bachelor's degree plus 35 hours education plus a test.

Our PMO requires PM's to obtain their PMP, and we only hire those that either have a PMP or are qualified to take the exam.

I have it...but I have been doing pm before all these certifications popped up...it is just another set of rules to follow. Makes it easier when you don't know where you are going.

So when your projects go wrong, you invite everyone to look at your certificate and say "see, it wasn't my fault!"?

Come on!

If you learned anything from PMI, you would have identified Risks and developed Mitigations for them. And employing your Communications Plan, all of your stakeholders should be notified of any project issues.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox
It's yet another useless certification. The only good thing about it is when the project fails, you have a nice document to deflect blame. These people are only interested in the process, not the result.

BUT, if you can make yourself preach it, it is good coin.

Wrong, and you obviously aren't a project manager or have an axe to grind. It requires something like 6,000 hours PM experience plus a bachelor's degree plus 35 hours education plus a test.

Our PMO requires PM's to obtain their PMP, and we only hire those that either have a PMP or are qualified to take the exam.

I have it...but I have been doing pm before all these certifications popped up...it is just another set of rules to follow. Makes it easier when you don't know where you are going.

So when your projects go wrong, you invite everyone to look at your certificate and say "see, it wasn't my fault!"?

That is basically what that plan is good for. No, I do not invite them to look at the cert, since I don't even hang any certs. They day I need to depend on stupid pieces of paper to prove my worth is the day I kill myself.

Think about this: say there is 2 possible outcomes, success or failure. In case of success, no one cares about the plan. In case of failure, people start pointing fingers and they go to the plan and say "hey I did my part", which really doesn't help anything other than blame deflection. Bottom line, the sucker failed. Learn from your failure and move on. All the bullshit in the risk management section obviously failed or your project would be a success.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is a bad idea to follow PMI's idea, I am just saying it is not the only way and to me (personally) I have better things to do with my time. I am more interested in the result rather than the process.

Another possible explanation is I have only met the PM posers.

You may have a PMP, but you know very little about good project management. So you're right, in some cases it's a useless certification

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: alchemize

You may have a PMP, but you know very little about good project management. So you're right, in some cases it's a useless certification

By PMI standards, definitely. I don't preach their bullshit.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize
You may have a PMP, but you know very little about good project management. So you're right, in some cases it's a useless certification

By PMI standards, definitely. I don't preach their bullshit.

So you don't buy into the methodology either huh? What's your cert #, I don't believe you.

edit: fixed quotes

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize
You may have a PMP, but you know very little about good project management. So you're right, in some cases it's a useless certification

By PMI standards, definitely. I don't preach their bullshit.

So you don't buy into the methodology either huh? What's your cert #, I don't believe you.

edit: fixed quotes

and again, what is that going to prove? I already told you I don't think PMI is the end all be all it claims to be. My cert is in fact useless to me personally, but it looks good to people doing the looking.

My rant is really aimed at the paper pusher PMPs that is focued on the process rather than the result.

Come to think of it, I am really ranting about those cert darlings that only talk the talk. CPMs just happen to be target du jour.

 

[kranky]

sdifox is not far off base. The world's best PM cannot prevent project failure in every case. I agree with him that if your project succeeds nobody cares what process you used, and if it fails you'll be much better off if you can say you followed the "best practices" of PMI.

There is no "one best way" to run a project. I think even the most fervent supporters of the PMP would admit that. If following the PMI process guaranteed project success, every project would succeed and nobody would do it any other way.

Clearly the PMI process is a well-vetted and thorough approach to project management and would benefit many people. There's nothing wrong with it. And a PMP cert demonstrates an deep understanding of the process, and that's good too.

But a PMP does not make a project manager successful nor does following the process guarantee a successful project.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize
You may have a PMP, but you know very little about good project management. So you're right, in some cases it's a useless certification

By PMI standards, definitely. I don't preach their bullshit.

So you don't buy into the methodology either huh? What's your cert #, I don't believe you.

edit: fixed quotes

and again, what is that going to prove? I already told you I don't think PMI is the end all be all it claims to be. My cert is in fact useless to me personally, but it looks good to people doing the looking.

So you don't have a PMP.

edit: gotta run, have to interview a project manager candidate

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize
You may have a PMP, but you know very little about good project management. So you're right, in some cases it's a useless certification

By PMI standards, definitely. I don't preach their bullshit.

So you don't buy into the methodology either huh? What's your cert #, I don't believe you.

edit: fixed quotes

and again, what is that going to prove? I already told you I don't think PMI is the end all be all it claims to be. My cert is in fact useless to me personally, but it looks good to people doing the looking.

So you don't have a PMP.

edit: gotta run, have to interview a project manager candidate

Make sure you don't hire me Me not being American and all and detractor of certification aura.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox
It's yet another useless certification. The only good thing about it is when the project fails, you have a nice document to deflect blame. These people are only interested in the process, not the result.

BUT, if you can make yourself preach it, it is good coin.

Wrong, and you obviously aren't a project manager or have an axe to grind. It requires something like 6,000 hours PM experience plus a bachelor's degree plus 35 hours education plus a test.

Our PMO requires PM's to obtain their PMP, and we only hire those that either have a PMP or are qualified to take the exam.

I have it...but I have been doing pm before all these certifications popped up...it is just another set of rules to follow. Makes it easier when you don't know where you are going.

So when your projects go wrong, you invite everyone to look at your certificate and say "see, it wasn't my fault!"?

That is basically what that plan is good for. No, I do not invite them to look at the cert, since I don't even hang any certs. They day I need to depend on stupid pieces of paper to prove my worth is the day I kill myself.

Think about this: say there is 2 possible outcomes, success or failure. In case of success, no one cares about the plan. In case of failure, people start pointing fingers and they go to the plan and say "hey I did my part", which really doesn't help anything other than blame deflection. Bottom line, the sucker failed. Learn from your failure and move on. All the bullshit in the risk management section obviously failed or your project would be a success.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is a bad idea to follow PMI's idea, I am just saying it is not the only way and to me (personally) I have better things to do with my time. I am more interested in the result rather than the process.

Another possible explanation is I have only met the PM posers.

The bigger question is "Why did it fail?" Without proper planning and project management, nobody knows, so nobody learns from those mistakes.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: kranky
sdifox is not far off base. The world's best PM cannot prevent project failure in every case. I agree with him that if your project succeeds nobody cares what process you used, and if it fails you'll be much better off if you can say you followed the "best practices" of PMI.

There is no "one best way" to run a project. I think even the most fervent supporters of the PMP would admit that. If following the PMI process guaranteed project success, every project would succeed and nobody would do it any other way.

Clearly the PMI process is a well-vetted and thorough approach to project management and would benefit many people. There's nothing wrong with it. And a PMP cert demonstrates an deep understanding of the process, and that's good too.

But a PMP does not make a project manager successful nor does following the process guarantee a successful project.

I don't believe anybody is claiming that structured project management is fool proof. But if I can minimize the number of possible failure points, it seems to me that it's worth the time.

If we talk about software, there is not one best to way to write code. There are different schools of thought on variable notation, object structure, namespaces. But there are definitely better ways to do it than simply have a dozen coders start working on whatever piece of the software they choose and ending up with an unmanageable piece of spaghetti code.

Having worked at several small companies struggling to grow and watching large amounts of time and money get wasted, I'm convinced that there's a better way.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

The bigger question is "Why did it fail?" Without proper planning and project management, nobody knows, so nobody learns from those mistakes.

Agreed, leaning from your mistake is important, but it usually gets lost in the blame game.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: BoberFett

The bigger question is "Why did it fail?" Without proper planning and project management, nobody knows, so nobody learns from those mistakes.

Agreed, leaning from your mistake is important, but it usually gets lost in the blame game.

Dude you have a PMP (allegedly) but you're not a project manager, and you don't understand project management. You shouldn't even be in this thread, other than perhaps to demonstrate that people who aren't project managers or don't intend to be project managers don't need a PMP.

Maybe I should get an MCSE and then go tell network engineers why it's a useless certification...

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: BoberFett

The bigger question is "Why did it fail?" Without proper planning and project management, nobody knows, so nobody learns from those mistakes.

Agreed, leaning from your mistake is important, but it usually gets lost in the blame game.

Dude you have a PMP (allegedly) but you're not a project manager, and you don't understand project management. You shouldn't even be in this thread, other than perhaps to demonstrate that people who aren't project managers or don't intend to be project managers don't need a PMP.

Maybe I should get an MCSE and then go tell network engineers why it's a useless certification...

See my edit to add an apology to my first post. Upon reflection it is not really PMI or any certification that is the focus of my rant, rather the thought that certification will get the job done.

I gotta work on rant management...

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: BoberFett

The bigger question is "Why did it fail?" Without proper planning and project management, nobody knows, so nobody learns from those mistakes.

Agreed, leaning from your mistake is important, but it usually gets lost in the blame game.

Dude you have a PMP (allegedly) but you're not a project manager, and you don't understand project management. You shouldn't even be in this thread, other than perhaps to demonstrate that people who aren't project managers or don't intend to be project managers don't need a PMP.

Maybe I should get an MCSE and then go tell network engineers why it's a useless certification...

See my edit to add an apology to my first post. Upon reflection it is not really PMI or any certification that is the focus of my rant, rather the thought that certification will get the job done.

I gotta work on rant management...

It's all good - Rant Management, the latest addition to PMI...

I concur - I knew plenty of "Indian PMPs" that certain offshore companies would produce in a factory and have PM zero skills. Again much like technical certifications...a cert is useless if you don't have the basic skills necessary to do the work, or the capability to learn them

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: alchemize
It's all good - Rant Management, the latest addition to PMI...

Hey, you can't just jump right into Rant Management. You have to prepare a Rant Management Scope Statement first!

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: alchemize
It's all good - Rant Management, the latest addition to PMI...

Hey, you can't just jump right into Rant Management. You have to prepare a Rant Management Scope Statement first!

don't make me go Hulk!

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: alchemize
It's all good - Rant Management, the latest addition to PMI...

Hey, you can't just jump right into Rant Management. You have to prepare a Rant Management Scope Statement first!

Without a Scope Statement how are you going to avoid Rant Creep? One minute you'll be complaining about useless certs, and the next you find yourself going on about sweetbreads aren't really sweet or bread.

 

[cjvon]

I'm starting to study for the PMP cert and it doesn't seem that bad.

One problem that I've seen with project management is that some PMs have too little power. They're a manager, but they're not managers of the people they require to complete their assigned project.

I have a chance to work for a former boss to replace a retired PM and I would already have the job but this damn economy has my former employer undecided as to whether they will fill the job or not.

 

[her209]

Projects manage themselves.

 

[kranky]

I'm taking a training class for what I would call a "PMP lite" certification, called CAPM. It uses the regular PMBOK but isn't as rigorous. One thing that is abundantly clear is to learn how to answer the questions the way the PMI thinks, not what common sense might dictate. Took a practice test and passed by one question (out of 150), and I thought I had done decently well. When I reviewed the ones I missed, there were quite a few where the right answer didn't agree with what I thought made the most sense.

The bottom line is I don't see how anyone could pass without putting in some study time, no matter how much PM experience they had.

 

[RedCOMET]

Originally posted by: her209
In Soviet Russia, Projects manage themselves.

eh?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: cjvon
I'm starting to study for the PMP cert and it doesn't seem that bad.

One problem that I've seen with project management is that some PMs have too little power. They're a manager, but they're not managers of the people they require to complete their assigned project.

I have a chance to work for a former boss to replace a retired PM and I would already have the job but this damn economy has my former employer undecided as to whether they will fill the job or not.

This is where you communication plan and stakeholders come in.

The very first rule of succesful project management is making resource managers (people's boss) commit to something and if they don't meet it your communication plan nails them to the wall.

You don't control the actual resources as they are not in your direct command, you control the controller of those resources. Effectively you are the the controller of the boss and you are a peer of the resource manager's boss. You make action by the top down.

#1 goal of a successful PM is you have no accountability and your documented and follow through with your communication plan absolves you of any of that.

It's a game. Learn to play it.