Anyone here Anti-SUV?

[Eug]

<< In winter I prefer to drive the Sedan cause unless you go off road you don't need clearance you need traction. The Sedan with front wheel drive and studded winter tires all the way around provide more than adequate traction. The Truck even though it has 4X4 is a pooreer choice because in crosswind you have that large side forcing you to shear off the road and actually breaks traction more than the car cause it slipstreams. >>

Hmmm... I'd have to disagree with you there. In snow (yes real snow - I live in Canada), a 4x4 is often easier to drive than a FWD sedan, but I do agree that FWD drive sedans do very well. RWD sedans are very difficult however. However, I prefer AWD sedans. And if you can stick chains or studded tires on a FWD, you can do it on a 4WD too if you really want.


<< The truck also has poorer stopping capacity and manouverability and thats a fact because of the extra mass, it still has about the same amount of tread touching the pavement and that is what stops your vehicle. >>

I agree, SUVs are hard to stop. If I have to drive one in slippery conditions I drive slowly and I give myself a lot of room. The number of sedan AND SUV accidents are astronomical in the winter. Somehow some SUV owners seem to think an SUV's 4WD somehow makes them impervious to icy conditions. While I think 4WD is easier, it is almost funny to see the number of soccer mom SUV owners up on the sidewalk.


<< If I were to get in an accident though bearing in mind I'm less likely to in the sedan, I'd have to give it to the truck cause you have that much more material in front of you although I did see a Saturn SC2 in a showroom that was in an accident with a telephone pole at 50 mph and you could still open the doors, the cabin was vitually unmoved. >>

Hmmmm... maybe. It depends on the model of course of truck and sedan.



<< Eug, I'm talking about personal preference here. We do not have the right to dictate to our neighbors what they should or should not be driving. And yes, there are 'gas-guzzler' taxes out there. >>

Actually we do. That's why anti-pollution laws exist. I don't want to take them as far as many greens do, but I do think there are some valid concerns that need to be addressed. And I do think gas mileage and emissions are high up in the list of concerns.


<< And yes, there are bad drivers in every range of the spectrum. Based upon your own observations that you've seen more tailgaters in SUV's and sportscars, I hazard a guess that those tailgaiting bad drivers have a heightened sense of their own abilities, and therefore gravitate to a higher-performance automobile. That doesn't justify it, obviously, but if you took away all of the SUV's and sportcars, I think you'd still find the same number of tailgaters, but now they're driving something else just as poorly. >>

I agree.

<< If you tailgate me, I'm going to tap my brakes and we'll both get to see just how fast your reflexes are. >>

I have to admit I've done that a few times myself, but I don't do anymore because I think it's unsafe. I just let them pass. However, there was once when I had a van driver tailgating me up a hill with about 3 feet of space in a huge snowstorm. It was so slippery that there were at least 4 cars in my view that had already ended up on the curb. I very gradually slowed down and finally just stopped... for around a minute, blocking all traffic. The driver final got the message after that.

 

[BooneRebel]

<< Someone compared an SUV to a large house. The comparison is not valid in my opinion because the value of such a house will most likely increase over time unlike an SUV, of which the value starts decreasing as soon as you take it off the lot. >>



My comparison applies to any excessive purchase. I'm trying to get them to understand that it's -my- choice to spend my money any way I want to, and I'm not going to try to push my opinions on someone else as to what car they drive, what house they live in, what they wear, etc. Yes, I may think that it's foolish, but I won't go out of my way to point it out just to bring someone down.

For the readers of these forum, how about saying that it's unnecessary to overclock a PC to 2GHz when a Pentium 90 is sufficient. It would raise a holy stink because you have the right to spend your money in the way that you think is most appropriate, not the way the guy standing behind you at the register thinks.

By the way, some of those multimillion dollar houses have fallen in value after the market bubble burst. Talk to a realtor in Silicon Valley and ask them what sort of prices they're getting now compared to a couple of years ago.

 

[Kitros]

I am anti-people-who-don't-know-how-to-drive-them.

Ford and a large driving school acadamy are teaming up to TEACH PEOPLE TO DRIVE THEM.

I wish it was mandatory for a SUV driving class!

 

[desy]

Eug
I live in the prairies and yes real snow.
The truck doesn't do as well IN A CROSS WIND SITUATION which on the bald prairies we gets lots. I drove 5 hrs in a blizzard last winter what was in the ditch? two 4X4 extended cab trucks, two Chevy AWD Astro vans , one Toyota supra &quot;prolly with crap sport tires on&quot; one early 80's POS chevy citation &quot;prolly with bald tires on&quot; So the conclusion I can come to with the trucks and vans and MY personal experience is with high side wind they don't hold. Actually I saw one of the vans hit the ditch right in front of me :Q
Maybe its the fact that most don't put studded tires on SUVs and trucks cause they typically already have a much more aggessive tread pattern than a car. Thats the reason I didn't put studs on my truck.

 

[JasonG]

The problem with the world today is that people feel like they should be able to do whatever they want without regard to other people in the world.

Driving an SUV does affect everyone else, by consuming more fuel (per gallon) than regular cars and thus putting more carbon into the atmosphere.

Please don't flame me. I'm not an eco-freak. I'm just stating the facts.

My sister and her husband own two chevy suburbans (in Phoenix!) and I disagree with her that they are necessary. They only have two kids so they should be able to have a smaller car/truck. She claims that they are safer, so it's justified.

Of course, people will buy whatever they want if they can afford it.

This has nothing to do with envy. I own a BMW 3-series sedan and I could afford a huge SUV if I wanted it. I choose not too because I like smaller cars that handle better.

I feel that this is both a personal and a moral decision. Many people say that the environment is very important but they still drive an SUV. Seems kind of hypocritical to me.

This isn't an attack. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Jason

 

[Murphyrulez]

Uhhh.. if the environment is so important that SUV's should be outlawed, are you driving a hybrid car yet? Why not? Don't you want to get the 65 MPG? My brother has one, he was getting 70MPG on the highway.

I own a Honda Passport, Honda Accord, and 67 Ford Mustang... I drive what I want, when I want. My wife drives the SUV most of the time, she feels better sitting higher up, my son is safer in the back seat, and HE likes it because he sits higher and can see all the neat things out the windows!
You who complain about them being too tall and you can't see around them... Waaah. Are you gonna cry about the minivans next? Every minivan out there is taller than my Passport.

Paul

 

[BooneRebel]

<< The problem with the world today is that people feel like they should be able to do whatever they want without regard to other people in the world.

Driving an SUV does affect everyone else, by consuming more fuel (per gallon) than regular cars and thus putting more carbon into the atmosphere.

Please don't flame me. I'm not an eco-freak. I'm just stating the facts.

My sister and her husband own two chevy suburbans (in Phoenix!) and I disagree with her that they are necessary. They only have two kids so they should be able to have a smaller car/truck. She claims that they are safer, so it's justified.

Of course, people will buy whatever they want if they can afford it.

This has nothing to do with envy. I own a BMW 3-series sedan and I could afford a huge SUV if I wanted it. I choose not too because I like smaller cars that handle better.

I feel that this is both a personal and a moral decision. Many people say that the environment is very important but they still drive an SUV. Seems kind of hypocritical to me.

This isn't an attack. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Jason >>



Jason, why are you driving a BMW 3-series when you could be driving a Geo? Surely, you're emitting more exhaust than necessary. (That's a fact as well). Wait, you answered already - because you like it. That's what I'm trying to get across - you have the right to decide what you're going to drive. And my SUV handles better in some situations than your BMW.

You can't possibly be saying that the impact to other people in the world is more important than your own. If you felt that way you'd be riding a 10-speed.

Yes, it's a moral and ethical question. But it's my morals and my ethics that dictate what I'm going to drive, not someone else's. And bringing in your own example, I feel the environment is important as well. But given the availability of a 2-ton vehicle, I will choose to put my family in this vehicle for the perceived safety it has over a Geo. If that makes it more dangerous for the guy in the Geo driving behind me, so be it. This isn't a 'everyone plays fair' world, I am looking out for numero uno. I know this sounds harsh, but unless there's a government control that dictates we will all be driving the same vehicle (aaackk!), I will choose to go on the heavy side of the scale....

 

[rufruf44]

BooneRebel,
As long as you drive your SUV cautiously and adhering to the law, then I can't complaint much. My opinion whether you're incosiderate person is just that, my opinion.
But when people drive dangerously in their SUV (and half-ton truck,etc), I DO have problem. Other drivers are at disadvantage during collision, not only due to sheer size, but the bumper of the bigger SUV is located at higher than the bumper of most car....rendering its functionality useless and cause more danger since it can easily plow into the other car. This is true with driver of other vehicle of course, but there's the added danger with driving SUV.

 

[JasonG]

BooneRebel-

Actually, I ride my bike to work as much as I'm able (excluding rain/snow which is fairly offen in Boston).

As I said, my post was not an attack. It seems many SUV owners get very defensive...

I said that was just my thoughts on the matter.

Everyone must make his own choices in life and live with them.

Murphyrulez-

Unfortunately hybrids weren't available when I bought my car (it's a '95). I'm seriously considering one for my next car.

Have fun in your SUV...

Jason

 

[BooneRebel]

<< BooneRebel,
As long as you drive your SUV cautiously and adhering to the law, then I can't complaint much. My opinion whether you're incosiderate person is just that, my opinion.
But when people drive dangerously in their SUV (and half-ton truck,etc), I DO have problem. Other drivers are at disadvantage during collision, not only due to sheer size, but the bumper of the bigger SUV is located at higher than the bumper of most car....rendering its functionality useless and cause more danger since it can easily plow into the other car. This is true with driver of other vehicle of course, but there's the added danger with driving SUV. >>



It sounds like just about everyone is in agreement here. The most dangerous part of the vehicle is the loose nut behind the wheel.

Yes, there is certainly a disadvantage due to height. But look at the average school bus. It sits up high as well and offers just as much opportunity to slide under. But there aren't any 'get the schoolbuses off the road' campaigns out there (or are there? )

And the SUV/trucks/Suburbans have been available for decades. They're just now gaining popularity and attention (good and bad). But at some point I think we have to look at it objectively and see what direction the US is headed. I'm sure the farmer with the horse and buggy cursed the Model A because it was loud, obnoxious, and moving too fast, while posing a danger to the farmer and his cargo. But eventually the farmer had to give up the road to the flood of other Model A's &amp; (&amp; whatever else). If high bumpers continue to gain in popularity (OPEC not withstanding), I think that we'll have to see a compromise with smaller vehicles raising their bumpers as well, or a federally-mandated 'bumper height range' (probably most likely). But keep the posts coming. I love these kind of debates (just get me started on gun control...)

 

[BooneRebel]

&amp; Jason, I don't usually run around on a defensive tirade about my truck. But given the anti-SUV topic of this thread, I came in here with guns (readily available on the gun rack over the back seat ) blazing.

 

[Eug]

<< Jason, why are you driving a BMW 3-series when you could be driving a Geo? Surely, you're emitting more exhaust than necessary. (That's a fact as well). >>

Actually it isn't 100% fact. Despite having twice the engine displacement and the fact that it does put out more C02, the BMW 325i puts out LESS smog-inducing emissions than a Geo Metro. Hence, the BMW is classified as an ultra low emissions vehicle (ULEV) whereas the Geo Metro is classified as a low emissions vehicle (LEV). I'm not saying that the BMW is necessarily more green than the Geo Metro, but it does show a lot of progress has already been made, just not properly implemented in many cars. But if a so-called luxury car as the BMW 325i can rate a ULEV, significant improvements in other cars can be made as well.


<< Uhhh.. if the environment is so important that SUV's should be outlawed, >>

They should not be outlawed. They are regulated, like all cars are regulated, but I wish the regulations in terms of mileage and emissions were more stringent.


<< are you driving a hybrid car yet? >>

Yes. Coolest car I've ever driven.


<< Many people say that the environment is very important but they still drive an SUV. Seems kind of hypocritical to me. >>

Hehe, agreed. The real greens don't own cars. However, I too come across granolas who chastise people for not composting, yet they drive gas guzzling tanks to the wilderness for their camping trips so that they they can become one with nature...

 

[unclebud]

me! me! i hate those things! they are why gas costs so much now
blah
plus i can't see around them--i go into work/store and come out i think somebody's stolen my car because somebody's parked a big honging suv next to it--not to mention turning lanes
ugh

 

[Texmaster]

I AGREE! SUVs Should be BANNED!!

But dont stop there!

Why do people need really fast computers?? They dont really NEED that speed to run what they do and they use a lot of energy going it! Lets Ban All PCs over 1ghz that way everyone is Equal!

And what about houses? Rich people use more energy in bigger houses! Lets Ban all houses above a certain height! Yeah! :disgust:

This is AMERICA not AMERIKA. We have freedoms here. I myself HATE SUVs. I hate the feel and the look. But that doesn't give me the right to keep someone else from buying one!

this is what you get from people who grew up being Spoonfed by the Socialists for 8 years.

Money BAD!
Rich people EVIL!
Tax Refund EVIL!!
Freedom of Choice EVIL!!
Must PUNISH those who make more than ME!!

Spare me.

 

[BooneRebel]

Let's face it. The technology has been available for years to increase the efficiency of the internal-combustion engine. But look at the fate of designers like Diesel or Mazda's Wenkel rotary engine. It is more profitable for the auto manufacturers to continue producing the same lineup with no noticeable increase in efficiency (look at the way Chrysler classified the PT Cruiser in order to get their overall truck lineup looking better). Until that changes you'll still see many SUVs on the road. Unless the government steps in or the people en mass decide to stop driving vehicles unless they can get 80mpg, we'll stay with the status quo.

Hybrids are cool, but until they come up with a hybrid Hummer I'll continue to take my hits at the gas station. I'm just a truck kind of guy, raised on the sound of a throaty dual exhaust. And I think it's great to see any LEV or ULEV cars out there, I'm just not as inclined to buy one.

 

[BooneRebel]

<< I AGREE! SUVs Should be BANNED!!

But dont stop there!

Why do people need really fast computers?? They dont really NEED that speed to run what they do and they use a lot of energy going it! Lets Ban All PCs over 1ghz that way everyone is Equal!

And what about houses? Rich people use more energy in bigger houses! Lets Ban all houses above a certain height! Yeah! :disgust:

This is AMERICA not AMERIKA. We have freedoms here. I myself HATE SUVs. I hate the feel and the look. But that doesn't give me the right to keep someone else from buying one!

this is what you get from people who grew up being Spoonfed by the Socialists for 8 years.

Money BAD!
Rich people EVIL!
Tax Refund EVIL!!
Freedom of Choice EVIL!!
Must PUNISH those who make more than ME!!

Spare me. >>



LOL, Texmaster. Just found my new signature...

 

[iamwiz82]

i have seen no less than 3 accidents because people( women =] ) were driving like morons in SUVs. Once, in a heavy snow storm, i was coming home from work doing about 25, along with the rest of traffic. Here comes this stupid girl in a Jeep Grand Cherokee, doing at least 40. She cut in front of me and slowed down for the yellow light. She lost control and the Jeep went across the road, and hit a pole on the opposite side of the street.

I have to say, that was the most stasifying accident i have ever seen.

I have also been witness to a woman in an Excursion make a left turn from the right lane. She hit a car that had been turning left at the time, and they T bones.

I guess i dont hate SUVs, i hate their drivers

 

[BooneRebel]

<< i have seen no less than 3 accidents because people( women =] ) were driving like morons in SUVs. Once, in a heavy snow storm, i was coming home from work doing about 25, along with the rest of traffic. Here comes this stupid girl in a Jeep Grand Cherokee, doing at least 40. She cut in front of me and slowed down for the yellow light. She lost control and the Jeep went across the road, and hit a pole on the opposite side of the street.

I have to say, that was the most stasifying accident i have ever seen.

I have also been witness to a woman in an Excursion make a left turn from the right lane. She hit a car that had been turning left at the time, and they T bones.

I guess i dont hate SUVs, i hate their drivers >>



Guess the topic of this thread should be changed to &quot;Anyone here Anti-morondriver?&quot; How about it?

 

[goodoptics]

I dislike them.

 

[Eug]

<< Let's face it. The technology has been available for years to increase the efficiency of the internal-combustion engine. But look at the fate of designers like Diesel or Mazda's Wenkel rotary engine. It is more profitable for the auto manufacturers to continue producing the same lineup with no noticeable increase in efficiency (look at the way Chrysler classified the PT Cruiser in order to get their overall truck lineup looking better). Until that changes you'll still see many SUVs on the road. Unless the government steps in or the people en mass decide to stop driving vehicles unless they can get 80mpg, we'll stay with the status quo. >>

The governments in many areas are starting to step in, because they are beginning to realize the potential consequences.


<< Hybrids are cool, but until they come up with a hybrid Hummer I'll continue to take my hits at the gas station. >>

Heheh, I wonder. The US military is currently looking at hybrids because of the excellent gas mileage, and because of the stealth mode of electrical only operation. Furthermore, hybrids can be built to have far more low speed torque than a conventional gas engine, since all the torque of an electrical engine is available at all speeds, even from a dead stop. You might get your wish.


<< I'm just a truck kind of guy >>

Hybrid trucks and SUVs should be available soon. A minivan is due out next year.


<< And I think it's great to see any LEV or ULEV cars out there, I'm just not as inclined to buy one. >>

Well, considering many trucks (eg. F-150, Tundra, Sierra, Silverado, etc.) are already LEVs (at least in California anyway), you may end up buying one without even knowing it. It's anti-pollution laws that are forcing the companies to do this, and I agree with those laws. However I do think the laws should be strengthened or at least for now the terminology should be updated. Even the 4.8L V8 Yukon/Tahoe is called a low emissions vehicle.

 

[Freejack2]

To all those that said that SUV's are great for picking up chicks, please stop, I'm dying of laughter here! What are you doing? Trying to pick up the soccer moms? Don't make me laugh.
It hasn't changed one bit. Sports cars are and most likely always will be the chick magnet. The guy who buys a Mustang and spends a few bucks beefing it up is going to pay less than a suv costs, get better gas mileage AND turn the heads of the chicks.
SUV's are for going off road. If you live on dirt or gravel roads and have a family, go offroading every weekend, or carry heavy cargo that needs to be kept at room temp, then a SUV is for you.
If you don't take the family in it or don't carry heavy cargo that needs to be kept at room temp, then you'll probably want a truck.
If you need to carry around a lot of people on the road or some cargo, a minivan or a station wagon is ideal.
If your commuting to work and don't carry more than 4 people a sedan is suited.
For those that like to push their car or want to pick up chicks then a sports car is ideal.

If you're getting a suv not for it's purpose but just for prestige, your wasting your money. Fact is 90% of suv owners would find a minivan or a station wagon more for their purpose. And for god sakes if your going to drive your deathtrap suv like a sports car, but the dammned sports car instead! If you need room the Subaru WRX will give you plenty of cargo room and blow the doors off any suv!

For people who use a SUV for it's purpose, I am not anti-suv. For those that use it for prestige, I am very anti-suv towards them.

 

[Alienwho]

You guys are a bunch of whiners. My dad has an Expedition and a Lesabre. We drive the expedition to haul around boats and other crap. We also go offroading quite a bit. And we generally use the Lesabre for everything else. But sometimes when I feel like going down to Wendy's all by myself to pick up some food, I drive the Expedition, and sometimes in the expedition i'll stop, then slam the gas and then stop, and slam the gas again, over and over and over and over and over again (keep in mind I am all by myself). And since I am in an expedition I am also pretty much the King of the road, and if I want your lane, you have no choice but to give it to me, have a problem with that? Then go buy your own SUV and give me some competition, otherwise you can whine and complain even though nobody cares if you hate what we drive, I also don't care what you drive.

Hate me.

 

[Windogg]

Eug, Yes, trucks like the Tahoe/Yukon are LEV because they release only a fraction of emmisions permitted by the law. What does annoy me is that companies like Chrysler skirt these laws by selling so-call &quot;Flexible Fuel&quot; light trucks (minivans) that can run on fuels like E85. Those trucks basically give them a credit to sell higher pollution vehicles.

I will be one of the first to admit that trucks need to meet the same standard set for cars in terms of safety and emmisions.

As for a hybrid truck, Toyota will be debuting a hybrid RAV4 later this year.

Windogg

 

[WordSmith2000]

<< The thing is most people dont use them for what they're intended for. A car will suit those people fine - soccer moms, small families. I know people that are single that drive them. They dont go off-roading or tow anything, yet they drive them around.
?..
What I find even more bewildering is people that buy a vehicle like the BMW X5, which makes no real pretense of being off-roadable, in spite of the fact that, with its rear seat in place, it has less cargo capacity than a Ford Taurus! I would vastly prefer a bona fide sport wagon over a comparable SUV, just for the sake of having a carlike ride and handling. No offense to X5 owners, but I don't even begin to understand why one would prefer this vehicle to a 540i unless one were routinely carrying large dogs or small children. >>



But you do not understand what they are?status symbols more than anything else. So they are being used for exactly their purpose.



<< So do you judge a couple that buys a 10,000 sq foot house even though they don't have any kids? People buy more vehicle than they need because they can and they want to.

I may not need to seat 9 people , but if I can afford 8mpg and I want to drive an Excursion, then so be it. It's a matter of personal preference. >>



Uh, yeah I have a problem with it?it is called taking care of our kid?s future. More SUV?s= less gas and more metal and plastics being put to waste.



<< All this bombast about SUV's lately reminds me of HL Menckens famous definition of Puritans as &quot;someone who is haunted by the feeling that somewhere, somehow, someone is having fun.&quot; >>



How myopic. I have incredible fun with my car. I take great joy in driving. But that joy can be limited by having to deal with assholes in SUV?s. A lot of SUV owners have NO idea how to drive them; they think that they are just like cars, only bigger. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth; witness all the rollover accidents involving SUV?s. Bad driving habits are multiplied when you are in a 3 ton car that sits 2 feet off the ground.

I also would not own one because of the assraping the new owner takes on the price:



<< I love my Durango and think that most of you people are just envious of those that can afford an SUV. Go out, get a job, save some $, then buy whatever the hell you want. If you don't like SUV's then don't buy one and shut the hell up!!! Don't get on your soapbox and start preaching to those of us that own one and enjoy it. >>



Wanna know a secret? Most SUV?s cost about half what they sell for! The rest of it is profit. My brother works at a Chevy dealership and he showed me how they hide the true cost of SUV?s from the public. He could buy any car on the lot, and owns an S-10. Why? Because it does all the things an SUV will do for 1/3 the cost.

If you want to pay 40,000 for a 20,000 car, go ahead. Just remember to smoke a ciggie afterwards, cuz you just got fscked.

Finally: A room full of PENIS ENVY??? You have to be kidding me! The persons with testosterone problems are the ones who buy the SUV! They have to make up what they lack in the pants by buying the ?huge? status symbol.

Here are my definitions for SUV. Feel free to grab a dictionary if you don?t understand some of the words?anyone have others?

SUV:

Status
Unbalanced
Values

Simply
Unattainable
Virility

Stupid
Uncultured
Vainglory

Senseless
Useless
Vandals

Somebody
Underwenta
Vasectomy

Spewing
Unbelievable
Vapors

Subhuman
Ultimate
Varletry

Simply
Unreal
Vegetables

Sickening
Urban
Vengeance

Stuckup
Unhygienic
Vermin

 

[Viperoni]

<< RWD sedans are very difficult however >>



Well, I still think it's all up to the driver.

My situation:
I was driving through northern Ontario in late January one day, and obviously the roads were covered with snow, mostly a hard packed layer no more than half an inch thick.
Still, very slippery.
I saw a new grand am in the ditch, a couple of SUV's, and audi A4 I think, a few small cars, yet I managed to drive the whole 250km (150mile) drive without incident.
I was averaging about 35mph too....I guess it all comes down to how smooth you drive in the snow.

Don't get me wrong, if I wanted to I could have tapped the gas (literally, tapped) and spun right around, but I doubt my dad would have approved.... :Q