Anyone here a private pilot?

[Yossarian]

As a student pilot, should I get more than just liability coverage in a renters policy? Physical damage insurance seems high... should I wait until I have my license for that?

I recommend getting some kind of hull insurance. If you're solo, it's likely that the flight school's insurance won't cover much. Find out what you're covered for through the school first.

Have you soloed yet?

I just soloed one of my students a couple weeks ago. Always a thrill for me to get out of the airplane and see them put into practice what they've learned.

 

[manlymatt83]

I recommend getting some kind of hull insurance. If you're solo, it's likely that the flight school's insurance won't cover much. Find out what you're covered for through the school first.

Have you soloed yet?

I just soloed one of my students a couple weeks ago. Always a thrill for me to get out of the airplane and see them put into practice what they've learned.

I'm doing Part 141, so I have a stage check to do. I finished the pre-solo written/ground work and I have a stage check this Saturday! Looks like 2.5 hour oral, 2.5 hour written. After that, I assume I'm super close to soloing?

 

[Yossarian]

I hope so, those requirements sound ridiculous. My checkride wasn't that long. Why are you doing 141?

 

[manlymatt83]

It's just what my school does! No regrets though I've learned a lot.

 

[skyking]

It's just what my school does! No regrets though I've learned a lot.

It's a far cry from my "part 91 from the trunk of an old corolla" training

 

[manlymatt83]

It's a far cry from my "part 91 from the trunk of an old corolla" training

haha Did you have a solid understanding of angle of attack? Stalling at any airspeed (and why?).

I accidentally skidded on turn to crosswind the other day. Boy did that scare the shit out of me. What's even more scary is that I didn't catch it, my instructor did. Damn torque.... I applied left rudder into the left turn, when really I needed right rudder to stay coordinated. Too much rudder into a turn = skid. I "hear" the 172s don't spin very well, but I wasn't ready to find out.

 

[skyking]

Yeah, he was old school. His dad taught WWII pilots. Bill soloed 5 planes on his 16th birthday. Commercial and instructor both when he turned 18, then off to Vietnam.
I got the 310 when I had a private, and he knew the regs. he could solo me in my twin and he did.
I got ramp checked and the FAA inspector was a little blown away, he had not seen a solo endorsement for a multi engine
the old rule was 1.3 VSO in the pattern turns, and that was 95 MPH in the 310. He showed me why that was a really bad idea.
We did a couple of terrifying accelerated stalls at around 100. Dust came out of everywhere, the plane shook like you drove off the pavement onto chuckholes, and it had a nasty break if you were not on top of the big rudder.
From that point on I was above blueline (111) and typically at Vy (119) whenever turning. My catchphrase was Vy? Y not?
The only pain was trying to fit into a pattern full of 95 MPH downwind and 65 MPH final aircraft. Sometimes I'd beg a spot and somebody would have mercy on me and go around.

 

[manlymatt83]

Wow, that's slow. I maintain 80/70/65 in the pattern in a 172. So I guess that'd be about...

1.6 VSO = downwind
1.45 VSO = base
1.3 VSO = final

I guess that's a little better...? Try to round out and flare and hear the stall horn, so I assume I'm pushing ~50-55 at that point.

 

[skyking]

Do whatever your instructor wants you to do, don't listen to my stories
I will say keeping to fully stalled landings may save your bacon, it did mine.

 

[manlymatt83]

Do whatever your instructor wants you to do, don't listen to my stories
I will say keeping to fully stalled landings may save your bacon, it did mine.

Fully stalled landings? Or touching down with the stall horn howling? Those are different.

 

[manlymatt83]

and FYI, my FAVORITE absolute favorite thing to do is side slip into a landing. I rarely crab anymore. It's awesome to be approaching the threshold in a side slip completely in control of where that nose is no matter the wind and touching down on one wheel

 

[skyking]

Fully stalled landings? Or touching down with the stall horn howling? Those are different.

They are? No kidding? Wow, I had no idea
If you can pull back on the yoke after touchdown and lift off again, that's too fast. I see it very often. that little trick was something my instructor would do and I would not advocate anybody without a ton of experience doing, but it was telling.
In an emergency situation that extra 5 knots can mean a huge difference. Mine was on my first solo XC, and I got a 150 into a soccer field. I probably dropped the plane a foot. It was all done flying

 

[manlymatt83]

They are? No kidding? Wow, I had no idea
If you can pull back on the yoke after touchdown and lift off again, that's too fast. I see it very often. that little trick was something my instructor would do and I would not advocate anybody without a ton of experience doing, but it was telling.
In an emergency situation that extra 5 knots can mean a huge difference. Mine was on my first solo XC, and I got a 150 into a soccer field. I probably dropped the plane a foot. It was all done flying

haha sorry Remember I'm a n00b at all of this. To me I have to remind myself that those are different.

You got a 150 into a soccer field? On purpose or by accident...?

 

[manlymatt83]

They are? No kidding? Wow, I had no idea
If you can pull back on the yoke after touchdown and lift off again, that's too fast. I see it very often. that little trick was something my instructor would do and I would not advocate anybody without a ton of experience doing, but it was telling.
In an emergency situation that extra 5 knots can mean a huge difference. Mine was on my first solo XC, and I got a 150 into a soccer field. I probably dropped the plane a foot. It was all done flying

Where do you live? We should go flying together some time.

 

[skyking]

Engine failure, very much on purpose. It was really the only good choice left open.
I live clear across the country. I have been out your way to see my buddy in Danbury CT. I took him for some rides and planted the curse, and he got his license after moving out there.
I have not talked to him in months and he called yesterday.

 

[manlymatt83]

Passed my stage check Saturday. I can now solo at any time. Fear of flying alone hit me so hard that I almost decided that I shouldn't move any further... But we shall see.

 

[skyking]

You'll get over that. One thing to look forward to is the performance. It is funny how much of a difference one person getting out of the plane makes.

 

[manlymatt83]

We shall see! For some reason I've become so fearful of that base to final skidding turn on an overshoot. Or not even on an overshoot. I realize it's quite hard to get into a spin if you aren't trying to on purpose - you still need opposite aileron to "falsely correct" for the problem, and back pressure because the nose is dropping. And I assume you'd hear the stall warning before entering the incipient phase of a spin, but since I haven't really been spin trained, all of this is theory to me and it makes me nervous to solo. Rational or no?

 

[skyking]

You have an educated apprehension, nothing wrong with that. I will tell you that you can fly a 172 very ham-handedly with no ill effects. It is truly a forgiving piece of equipment.
You could fly those speeds you mentioned with your feet right on the floor. You would look like a dork from any vantage point, but you would be a safe dork
I will add one more thing:
IF for any reason things are not working out, go around. People worry too much about having to go around. They view it as some sort of failure which is not correct. It is far better to go around than to try and "fix" a messed up approach.
I welcome every chance I get. I have had people pull out on the runway, fly way too slowly on final, etc. I fly a fast plane and many of those types will say nasty stuff on the radio when made to go around. I for one welcome an opportunity to perform what should be a normal procedure.
You'll do fine and most likely won't need to go around, but that is the answer to your overshooting skidded ham handed turn. No need to make it into a landing.

 

[manlymatt83]

You have an educated apprehension, nothing wrong with that. I will tell you that you can fly a 172 very ham-handedly with no ill effects. It is truly a forgiving piece of equipment.
You could fly those speeds you mentioned with your feet right on the floor. You would look like a dork from any vantage point, but you would be a safe dork
I will add one more thing:
IF for any reason things are not working out, go around. People worry too much about having to go around. They view it as some sort of failure which is not correct. It is far better to go around than to try and "fix" a messed up approach.
I welcome every chance I get. I have had people pull out on the runway, fly way too slowly on final, etc. I fly a fast plane and many of those types will say nasty stuff on the radio when made to go around. I for one welcome an opportunity to perform what should be a normal procedure.
You'll do fine and most likely won't need to go around, but that is the answer to your overshooting skidded ham handed turn. No need to make it into a landing.

Wow, I'm kind of surprised at your response. My instructor and others I've seen have pretty much said that if you compensate for a skid with opposite aileron and nose up to try to correct a base to final turn, you WILL spin. Perhaps that's just the reading I've done being extra "crazy". Would I even hear the stall horn first? My guess is yes...

I can tell you right now that I 99% trust myself to go around when the approach isn't good. I have ZERO ego when flying. In fact, a few weeks ago I decided to go around and started to initiate it, and my instructor asked me to continue for instructional purposes only (though he agreed that if I were alone I should go around). You better believe that if I'm trying to turn to final and noticing that I'm really struggling to get the plane to turn final in time to have a stable approach, I'm definitely going to quickly glance at the T.C. and even then, I'm likely going to go around.

I guess it's just the lack of knowledge fear that's bothering me. Is the skid to spin situation one of those things where I won't even notice it before it's happening? Or are there obvious signs at least a few seconds before it happens so there's time to apply right rudder/aileron for wings level, and even potentially nose down to correct the problem.

 

[cabri]

Experience will develop in learning how to handle situations

Play it safe, stupidity/careless overconfidence will cost you.
If lucky only in ego, else a damaged plane, body or loss of life.

 

[skyking]

So, where did those 70 knots go? What I said was "with those speeds you mentioned".
It won't suddenly flop over on you unless you load up the wing. A lot.
You would certainly notice all of the conditions necessary way in advance of it being an issue. Way before the horn.
When you get slow, things get quiet. Not enough power, too quiet also. All of those are part of your "seat of the pants" that you are developing.

 

[manlymatt83]

So, where did those 70 knots go? What I said was "with those speeds you mentioned".
It won't suddenly flop over on you unless you load up the wing. A lot.
You would certainly notice all of the conditions necessary way in advance of it being an issue. Way before the horn.
When you get slow, things get quiet. Not enough power, too quiet also. All of those are part of your "seat of the pants" that you are developing.

Oh. gotcha. Makes sense! Yeah, I almost always maintain 70. Once I dropped a tad low and heard the horn a tad in the pattern, immediately dropped the nose and added a touch of power. I was still coordinated though.

 

[manlymatt83]

Flew again on Friday. Was pretty intense. But I pulled it off. I walked into that cockpit, sat down, taxi'd out to the runway, took off, and landed a few minutes later. Can't believe I was ever afraid to fly!

<3

 

[manlymatt83]

... and I solo'd Friday! Lost a cylinder on my way up, go figure, so I could only do one trip in the pattern. But I did it! I've officially logged PIC time! Cross country phase starts this week.

I've come a long way from these threads. I don't even remember writing half of them. I guess that's what growing up is all about!

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=225582&highlight=fly
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=116694
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=47291&highlight=fly
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2095315&highlight=fly
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2165807&highlight=fly
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2293951&highlight=fly

<3