anyone have experience with SVC's rounded cables?

Lifer

Banned
Feb 17, 2003
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if so, please tell me your experiences with them, as far as quality of the cables and the length of the cable that you have experience with (i.e. data loss, interference, etc.)

i'm thinking about getting the 24" rounded cables.
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
12,094
1
81
I got a black one and another with silver braided metal one, both 18" inchers never had any problems with them before. I also go a silver braided metal floppy cable I think it is like 8" also had no problems with it. I have had all these about 2 years.
 

Sid59

Lifer
Sep 2, 2002
11,879
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ordered a pair from svc. 24" if i can remember.

- never had data loss
- never had interference
- both died and crapped out on me. dunno why, they just did. they didn't love past 4 months.
-- one died a month later
-- other died 2 months later
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,801
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I've had my pair of silver braided 24" ones for a year or two and have had no problems.
 

tizodq

Member
Sep 17, 2001
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ordered from them a month ago and got

3 18" rounded cables
1 floppy
1 24"

and i have never had a problem with them so far
 

Boobers

Senior member
Jun 28, 2001
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I've got some of the 18" UV IDE cables and a short UV floppy cable. They are clear UV with silver braid.
I have never had any problems with them, but once they get dusty the UV doesn't work very well unless you constantly clean them...
rolleye.gif
 

Boogak

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
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Been using a set of the 18" UV reactive ones for over half a year, no problems at all.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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I always recommend to avoid rounded and over-long cables.

See the unterminated ribbons that we are familar with are very fragile standard and suseptable not only to out side interference but to their own crosstalk interference.

You remember that when electricity travels thru a wire it creates a magnetic feild. Magnetics and electricity go hand in hand.

When you have a very stong magnetic feild passing thru a wire what happens? You create electrical current in that wire. Just like a radio intenna picks up radio waves and they naturally turns into electrical feed into the back of your radio. Remember crystal radio sets that turn radio waves into electicity and then sound waves with no external power source other then the radio waves?

Old 40 wire IDE cables are not capable of the higher speed data transfers that today's harddrives demand. After all that stuff (Parrellel ribbons) was created back before the 8086 days, it was fast enough then it's not good enough now. They don't work because the high frequencies passing thru those wires creates interference and the crosstalk f**ks up the signals.

So they created the 80 wire standard. Those extra 40 wires DO NOT carry any data signals. They are grounded. They sit in between data wires so that they keep them seperated.

Their sole purpose is to absorbe the excess energy from the signals generated by the neighboring wires and transmit this to ground.

Now when you rip appart all these wires and begin to criss cross them or to smoosh them together into a rounded cable all the signals and excess energy begin to go from wire to wire, creating distortion and screwing everything up.

SCSI wires can be much longer then IDE stuff because they transmite stuff differently and are terminated. Take the terminators off or hook up older non-self-terminating equipment and good luck trying to make it work properly.

The same thing happens when you take thin speaker wire and rap it up or cram it with a bunch of electrical wires. Ever notice how some people's stereos have a loud and annoying hiss when their is nothing on them and they are just sitting there? Ether caused by crappy stereo equipment or interference with the speaker wire themselves.

Be sure that engineers worked long and hard figuring all this stuff out. When they say the wire's maximum length is 18 inches you can be sure that they know what they are talking about. They are interested in making reliable and robust equipment, not selling you expensive and semi-useless cabling.

Most people how have over-long cables and rounded cables say that they work fine, because as long as they know they are working fine. They just probably spent a couple hours modifing cable or spent 30 dollars on wires that you otherwise get free with you harddrives or motherboards.

The data corruption is very subtle, there is nothing on your computer (especially if you run windows) that's going to give you any indication that something is going wrong. Plus today's hardware manufacturers are very good about making very good hardware.(compared to just a few years ago) Their chipsets they using in motherboards and harddrives can translate and handle dirty signals and malformed stuff very well and still extract good data from it. Plus there is a element of data correction built into the devices.

For instance if you are transmitting a signal 1010, but it gets 1011 it knows something is wrong and tells the other device to retranmit. But it's very limited, I am not completely sure of the details, but if you send a signal 1010 and it gets 0101 it may not be able to tell the difference and thinks it'd good data.

So hardware nowadays can handle bad data and correct it but only up to a limit.

For instance I read a review of long rounded cables were they hooked it up and it worked fine. They did benchmarks and only saw a very slight drop in file performance from a in-spec cable and a out of spec rounded cable. So it seemed to be fine and they recommended the rounded cable due to it's easier routing in the case and cooler looks for modders.

However they never explained exactly why there was any drop in performance at all! The drop in performance was more then likely due to the error correction built into the hardware being used over and over again to correct bad transmissions, and having to retransmit data. This didn't make much of a difference in the short term, because the standard can handle 1 error at a time just fine, but 2 errors in a row it can't handle. This a cumilative effect.

You programs will run fine, your OS will be stable. Your files will be good for a long time. But over a years time, or 2 years time things will begin to randomly mess up in small ways, then in bigger ways.

However most people are used to it and chalk it up to windows crapping out and simply reinstall. Which may be true under normal circumstances. But other software and OSes don't have the gradual decline and may start messing up themselves.

If you realy want them, go ahead. They will probably work, but if you start having issues with corrupted files or screwed up OSes and programs, you know one place to start making changes to fix the issues.


PS Go look into the Apple Power G4's and G5 (not that Apple is uber-god-like-computer-maker, but it's just a different mentality then PC makers) cases and you'll quickly see how thru good case design that ribbon cables can take up much less space then rounded ones and how you can deal with the length issues in other ways.
 

Boobers

Senior member
Jun 28, 2001
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What a "drag"!. Personally, I don't like "over-long" posts! LOL :D

There are two things wrong with drags theory. First, current (and it has to be AC or pulsing DC) passing through one wire will only induce a current (which occurs when the constantly fluxuating magnetic field collapses) in an adjacent wire if both wires are perfectly parallel to each other, as in a flat ribbon cable. Second, the round cables I have are 80 wire, with each signal wire twisted with it's corresponding ground. Since twisted pairs are used, no two wires are parallel to each other, significantly reducing "cross talk" as compared to a flat ribbon cable.

Elementary physics, my dear Watson...
 

jamison

Platinum Member
Mar 7, 2001
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SVC cables are generally good to decent, but you can get some bad ones (they are very cheap). I had one 18" blue IDE rounded cable cause a large amount of errors and wouldn't even get past Windows install. It drove me crazy because I was thinking it was the memory. Ran Memtest86 and no errors found. So I replaced the rounded cable with a teflon coated ribbon cable and no more errors.

Rounded cables - not worth it. Would you rather have cables that look a bit better, really don't help airflow much (if at all), but may cause errors? Or the old tried and true high quality ribbon cable that can be routed with a bit of effort.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
6
81
I've bought three sets of rounded cables from SVC. Two are still in service in my home systems. The set in my wife's computer is low-end and have been in use for almost 18 months now. It gets used daily and she has no data corruption issues at all. The cable connecting her CD burner to IDE2 is unshielded and 30" in length and works great. The install of WinXP HE is over a year old, too.

I've recommended SVC's rounded cables to many friends and family members, no one has complained of their quality or data corruption issues yet. :)
 

Lou3

Member
Jun 5, 2001
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I've read the warnings about rounded cables and avoid cheap ones, but the higher quality ones, like GladiatorXP, seem to be constructed specifically to eliminate electrical problems.

On the other hand, I've seen some very nice ribbon cables. I remember reading a review of one of the gamer PCs, and the pictures showed ribbon cables very nicely folded out of the way -- easily worthy of a PC with a window.

I'm going to buy cables for my new system tomorrow, and I'm not sure which way I want to go. Rounded cables look great, but no less than the expensive GladiatorXP will give me peace of mind (although they offer an FDD cable only in 50cm, which is way too long for my mATX rig). I might just go with a nice set of ribbon and fold them.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
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I don't quite get this then - twisted pairs is supposed to reduce interference, like in CAT5 cabling, right? I'm not quite clear on why it would have the opposite effect in IDE cables. The wires are still squished very near each other in CAT5 and IDE. If I had to guess though, I'd say that it is from two possible things - more wires, and thinner conductors in IDE vs CAT5.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: Boobers
What a "drag"!. Personally, I don't like "over-long" posts! LOL :D

There is a reason I chose the name "Drag" and it isn't because I like to dress in women's clothing.

There are two things wrong with drags theory. First, current (and it has to be AC or pulsing DC) passing through one wire will only induce a current (which occurs when the constantly fluxuating magnetic field collapses) in an adjacent wire if both wires are perfectly parallel to each other, as in a flat ribbon cable.

Sure. And those wires running in that round cable aren't parrellel to each other.

Second, the round cables I have are 80 wire, with each signal wire twisted with it's corresponding ground. Since twisted pairs are used, no two wires are parallel to each other, significantly reducing "cross talk" as compared to a flat ribbon cable.

Smooshing them together in a round cable makes it worse, because instead of having 1 wire on either side of a signal wire with a neutral ground wire seperating them, you now have 5 or 6 or 10 wires surrounding it with very little seperating them. There is a limit to how much a seperating grounding wire can help.

As far as wires having to be "perfectly parrellel", your perfectly wrong. Relativly parrellel is good enough, of course it helps the crosstalk greatly by wrapping the wires in a weave or a bunch in a very small space. The wires still start in the same spot, get bunched together and then end up at the same spot 18 inches later, that's quite parrellel enough.

Elementary physics, my dear Watson...

Sure Sure.

Look. If rounded cables were superior to ribbons, don't you think that electrical engineers working for the harddrive manufacturers would of figured this out long ago? If you could use longer then 18 inch cables with no problems, don't you think that ATA drive manufacturers would be happy about it?

Long cables cause huge problems with timing and cause clock scew and signal degrigation. The 18 inch limit is a big problem because it severely limits the aplications you can use IDE harddrives in. One of the reasons people use SCSI is because you can use long cables, you can simply put more devices in a rack or a tower then you can with ATA/IDE stuff.

In fact the shorter the cable the better! Especially if you overclock and try to get the fastest speeds possible out of your harddrive very short cables help out with stability quite a bit.

read here about the issues and problems that PATA devices face and why SATA is better.
 

Lou3

Member
Jun 5, 2001
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UPDATE: I went with the GladiatorXP cables for my two IDE drives. I read some reviews of them last night, and they are indeed made right. I decided against a GladiatorXP FDD cable, because I don't want that 50cm thing snaking all over the place in my mATX case. Since I hardly use floppies, I'll go with a less expensive cable of a more appropriate length.
 

tooltime

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2003
1,029
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my experience has been really good. i have three cables in use and not one problem...try to get them the right length though
 

Tbirdkid

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2002
3,758
4
81
To be honest.... i use a 36 incher from svc.... and here is my thoughts...

I think it is perfect for a big case. You can put your second slower hard drive on that cable and run one slave off of it. So to me... its worth it. and as for data corruption... i say bs. It takes alot of magnetic field to start messing it up. So buy whatever size you need and go with it. If you sit down and think about magnetic fields..... think about your wireless networking equipment and your pace makers and stuff man. It takes alot. Alot.

Now, I think overly long cables are useless if you have them in a small case. The whole sense in long cables is for big cases. If you have a big cable.... in a small case, you will probably keep the flow in your case to limited almost to the point of having flat cables. So no benefit. You are only buying rounded cables for looks and for air flow. There really is no other reason unless you dont like grey cables.....


 

Lou3

Member
Jun 5, 2001
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It seems I just had a data loss problem with my old rounded cables. I was running Serious Sam 2, and saved games suddenly wouldn't load anymore. In fact, starting the game would immediately crash my system. I reinstalled the game and my video drivers, but my system still crashed. Troubleshooting pointed to data loss, so, remembering this thread, I replaced the rounded cable on my optical drive channel with a ribbon cable. Now the game runs fine. I don't understand it, because CDs, DVDs, and other games ran fine. Also, I played SS2 twice with that cable. I don't know what to think.

This worries me, because I just bought a pair of expensive Gladiator cables for my new system. They look like they're engineered to address the problems of standard rounded cables (tests show that they transfer data a little faster than ribbon cables, which I assume indicates more data transmission integrity). I'm not sure if I should trust them, or exchange them for ribbon cables. I'd appreciate any input you electronics engineering gurus might have.