anyone have experience with pavers/retaining walls?

[purbeast0]

my wife and i are coming to the close of a pretty major backyard renovation (around $25k) that will be involving demolishing our concrete patio, installing a larger paver patio that is 2 levels, and a retaining wall.

we've seen the books and brochures for the local paver companies we can use, which are belgard, ep henry, nicolock, and hanover.

i have just been having some trouble through research finding out much about the quality of the different brands. one of the colors/styles we like the most is in nicolock, but from a bit of research and from one of the comments of the companies, they seem to be on the lower end of the totem pole as far as quality goes. but that said, they aren't bad or anything from what i have gathered, just that some of the others may hold their color longer and are just known for better quality.

and from what i've heard, belgard and ep henry are the better quality ones.

the price difference between the lower cost and upper cost would probably be like $2k or $3k different, and at this point that really isn't a deterrent as to which one we will get. we will get whichever color/style we like regardless of the brand.

however i was just wondering if anyone here knows about these brands or has heard anything good/bad about them, or knows of a good website that has people talking about the different types and how they compare.

EDIT:

i'm also having a bit of trouble figuring out exactly what colors will go best with our area. we like 2 colors, 1 is a lighter color that is more creamish colored, and the other is more red/yellow/rustic color. our backyard has yellow vinyl siding and then it also as a little bit of brick right where the patio is going to end.

 

[alkemyst]

The main issue most have is not having the foundation for the pavers properly prepared.

Make sure you see work of whatever contractor you are using YEARS later.

I have seen a lot of patios that looked beautiful only to deteriorate within a year or two.

 

[Markbnj]

My main experience is that they don't stay where you put them, and weeds grow up in the cracks.

 

[purbeast0]

My main experience is that they don't stay where you put them, and weeds grow up in the cracks.

that sounds like a poor installation if that is the case. but obviously you do have to take some kind of care of them. i know they have sealants you can get put on to treat them as well.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

that sounds like a poor installation if that is the case. but obviously you do have to take some kind of care of them. i know they have sealants you can get put on to treat them as well.

I'm torn on sealing paver patios. Once you do it, you've committed yourself to having to do it regularly. The one thing you will have to do if you don't seal, however, is to periodically resand the joints which is something I need to do with mine. The thing that has me reconsidering sealing it is that it is under a willow tree and if you don't have experience with willow trees, they're extremely messy and drop thousands of seeds every year, which inevitably fall in the cracks between pavers and sprout mini-trees. Not sure how well a sealer would protect against that once the joints have been resanded, however.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm torn on sealing paver patios. Once you do it, you've committed yourself to having to do it regularly. The one thing you will have to do if you don't seal, however, is to periodically resand the joints which is something I need to do with mine. The thing that has me reconsidering sealing it is that it is under a willow tree and if you don't have experience with willow trees, they're extremely messy and drop thousands of seeds every year, which inevitably fall in the cracks between pavers and sprout mini-trees. Not sure how well a sealer would protect against that once the joints have been resanded, however.

if you just use roundup on the pavers to kill the weeds, does that pretty much solve the weeds that can get into the cracks? or does more care need to be taken?

 

[Phoenix86]

Installation is far-far more important than the pavers, at least my landscape design friend tells me.

 

[Markbnj]

if you just use roundup on the pavers to kill the weeds, does that pretty much solve the weeds that can get into the cracks? or does more care need to be taken?

That's what I do, but you still have to pull the dead remains.

 

[Markbnj]

that sounds like a poor installation if that is the case. but obviously you do have to take some kind of care of them. i know they have sealants you can get put on to treat them as well.

In this respect the difference between a good and bad installation is just time, I think.

 

[T9D]

Pavers and those retaining wall blocks look cheesy as heck. Just get some concrete work done. I'm not even sure it's more expensive is it? Concrete is pretty dang cheap and about the same labor I'd imagine.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

if you just use roundup on the pavers to kill the weeds, does that pretty much solve the weeds that can get into the cracks? or does more care need to be taken?

RoundUp is a contact herbicide, meaning it doesn't sterilize the soil -- it just kills what it touches. I will spray some with RoundUp and just pull others out. It is because of that damn willow tree of mine -- it literally looks like I have snow in my back yard in May sometimes.

Also, remember, if you DO choose to seal your paver patio, you must wait a minimum of 2 to 3 months after installation to do it (some even say wait a year). My wife is completely against sealing it at this stage. I think I may try some polymeric sand and see how it holds up against the seed and occasional ant onslaught.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Pavers and those retaining wall blocks look cheesy as heck. Just get some concrete work done. I'm not even sure it's more expensive is it? Concrete is pretty dang cheap and about the same labor I'd imagine.

Pavers >>>>>>>>>> concrete. Concrete is much cheaper than having a paver patio built, but a paver patio is much better looking.

 

[roguerower]

PM with any specific questions, but my last full project had a two tier 2,800 SF patio that was stained concrete and a segmental retaining wall. The blocks we used were Keystone Standard. Big sumbitches but they did the job well.

I would recommend a sstained & stamped concrete patio vs. pavers. You can get the design you want and don't have to worry about weeds or other issues down the line. You can place and stamp it yourself so you save on labor costs. Cleaning involves a pressure washer.

 

[Phoenix86]

Pavers and those retaining wall blocks look cheesy as heck. Just get some concrete work done. I'm not even sure it's more expensive is it? Concrete is pretty dang cheap and about the same labor I'd imagine.

You think pavers look bad then recommend concrete?

There's plenty of good looking concrete floors, but retaining walls?

 

[purbeast0]

Pavers and those retaining wall blocks look cheesy as heck. Just get some concrete work done. I'm not even sure it's more expensive is it? Concrete is pretty dang cheap and about the same labor I'd imagine.

thanks for letting me know that your opinion on future subjects will probably be irrelevant

also definitely not going with stamped concrete vs pavers. and definitely not doing the work myself.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

PM with any specific questions, but my last full project had a two tier 2,800 SF patio that was stained concrete and a segmental retaining wall. The blocks we used were Keystone Standard. Big sumbitches but they did the job well.

I would recommend a sstained & stamped concrete patio vs. pavers. You can get the design you want and don't have to worry about weeds or other issues down the line. You can place and stamp it yourself so you save on labor costs. Cleaning involves a pressure washer.

I'd be concerned about having to patch cracks should they happen. Also, in my particular case, the aforementioned willow is next to the patio and I was worried roots would assist in cracking a concrete patio. With pavers, if the roots move them, I can easily remove the pavers, take care of the root, and then place the pavers back down. Also, if you damage a paver, you can generally just flip it over or just get another paver to put in its place.

 

[HumblePie]

My main experience is that they don't stay where you put them, and weeds grow up in the cracks.

Someone didn't use proper garden cloth and sand when leveling and used a dry stack approach.

 

[HumblePie]

Pavers and those retaining wall blocks look cheesy as heck. Just get some concrete work done. I'm not even sure it's more expensive is it? Concrete is pretty dang cheap and about the same labor I'd imagine.

Wrong!!!

Concrete in most places require permits. Does around here. Anything done with pavers/cinderblocks require no permits to complete. Which means no increases to those of us with property taxes based upon those renovations.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

As for colors, have you thought about something like this? Ours is similar to the photo below and when it is wet, looks really nice with all the various colors.

 

[alkemyst]

Keep in mind with pavers unless you glue/concrete them together it's nearly impossible to pressure wash them.

I personally like the poured concrete that they make look like pavers. You can pressure clean, recoat it and never worry about weeds and stuff growing between the joints.

Usually a permit for this is less involved and not as expensive as people make it out to be.

However, usually the big thing is a paver patio doesn't add to the tax base of the home unless they are all glued together.

 

[purbeast0]

pretty sure this is the color/style we're going to go with for both the paver and wall.

http://i.imgur.com/a90ZvEs.jpg

anyone have any experience with a lighter colored paver? one concern is just keeping it clean and wet leaves staining it, because we do have a lot of trees in our backyard.

 

[purbeast0]

dp

 

[IndyColtsFan]

pretty sure this is the color/style we're going to go with for both the paver and wall.

http://i.imgur.com/a90ZvEs.jpg

anyone have any experience with a lighter colored paver? one concern is just keeping it clean and wet leaves staining it, because we do have a lot of trees in our backyard.

Sometimes, willow leaves blow onto my patio and are covered with water or snow. They do stain the patio BUT it generally comes off in a few weeks with sunshine and rain. As long as you keep it pretty clear of leaves you should be fine. Those are nice pavers too.

 

[purbeast0]

Sometimes, willow leaves blow onto my patio and are covered with water or snow. They do stain the patio BUT it generally comes off in a few weeks with sunshine and rain. As long as you keep it pretty clear of leaves you should be fine. Those are nice pavers too.

cool that is good to know. yeah i like those a lot and the color, but i wasn't sure how it would go with our backyard and house color. but the more i think about it and after talking to my wife (who is 100% into fashion and decorating while i'm not) she likes that more, and like it just as much as the other one we were looking at. and it's a bit different too from what we usually see around here, which is nice. my only concern is that it will be like TOO bright back there. but i think it's me just worrying more than i need to and i think it'll look great. the total square footage of our patio is going to be just around 780sqft, which is fucking crazy to think about considering the apartment we lived in before this house was 780sqft lol.

 

[alkemyst]

Go to several pros and talk about your concerns. They will have the answers plus pictures of installs. Then choose if you want to attack it yourself or use one of them.