Anyone have experience with 8+ megapixel cameras?

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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Are 12 megapixel cameras on the market? I am looking for a reccomendation for a higher end camera. I have dabbled in photography for some time using a canon eos rebel. Through a desire to utilize my pilots license a little more I came upon some photography work that will pay for my fuel bills for the plane. Of course I need to purchase a decent camera.

Typically, what size print could you produce with an 8 megapixel camera?

I would like to lean toward a canon digital rebel so I could use all my existing lenses. I will be snapping pictures of buildings from varying altitudes and trying to determine if I need to spend 1K or 2+K on a camera.
 

Yaotl

Senior member
Jul 7, 2001
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stick with the rebel or something like it, the d70 comes to mind. the 8MP cameras that just came out are kind of pointless from what i've read. they produce more noise than is worth the shot.
 

phantom309

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2002
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Originally posted by: Yaotl
stick with the rebel or something like it, the d70 comes to mind. the 8MP cameras that just came out are kind of pointless from what i've read. they produce more noise than is worth the shot.

Agreed. These days the biggest factor in high-end cameras is noise level, not resolution. The digital Rebel or d70 6MP cameras will make huge, beautiful prints. My biggest problem with my DR is taking photos good enough to be worth blowing up to 11x17.
 

episodic

Lifer
Feb 7, 2004
11,088
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Originally posted by: rudder
Are 12 megapixel cameras on the market? I am looking for a reccomendation for a higher end camera. I have dabbled in photography for some time using a canon eos rebel. Through a desire to utilize my pilots license a little more I came upon some photography work that will pay for my fuel bills for the plane. Of course I need to purchase a decent camera.

Typically, what size print could you produce with an 8 megapixel camera?

I would like to lean toward a canon digital rebel so I could use all my existing lenses. I will be snapping pictures of buildings from varying altitudes and trying to determine if I need to spend 1K or 2+K on a camera.

It is not about the megapixel it is about the lens quality. A 3-4 megapixel with 'great' lenses will outperform a 6-8 megapixel with 'average' lenses.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
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Originally posted by: buyer262000
Originally posted by: rudder
Are 12 megapixel cameras on the market? I am looking for a reccomendation for a higher end camera. I have dabbled in photography for some time using a canon eos rebel. Through a desire to utilize my pilots license a little more I came upon some photography work that will pay for my fuel bills for the plane. Of course I need to purchase a decent camera.

Typically, what size print could you produce with an 8 megapixel camera?

I would like to lean toward a canon digital rebel so I could use all my existing lenses. I will be snapping pictures of buildings from varying altitudes and trying to determine if I need to spend 1K or 2+K on a camera.

It is not about the megapixel it is about the lens quality. A 3-4 megapixel with 'great' lenses will outperform a 6-8 megapixel with 'average' lenses.

This statement is not completely true IMO. The quality of your eventual file depends on the quality of your sensor and the quality of your lens...not just the quality of your lens. Your statement should have read:

"A good quality 3-4 megapixel sensor matched with great lenses will outperform a similar quality 6-8 megapixel sensor with mediocre lenses. "

The quality of the sensors is not solely based on megapixel numbers. Just because you get extra pixels doesn't mean those extra pixels aren't filled with crap.

So, in the end, it is the best balance of a good sensor and a good lens that will yeild the best pictures.

If you already have some decent Canon lenses, than the Canon Digital Rebel seems like the worthwhile way to go. I have not used one/viewed the pictures from one first hand, but I have talked with a few people and they all seem to have positive things to say.
 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: rudder
Are 12 megapixel cameras on the market?
Absolutely:

Canon 1Ds (11.1 MP) $8,000.00
Kodak DCS Pro (13.8 MP) $4,000.00

Those are the big boys of the DSLR world at the moment. Both are however, fairly special purpose. That is, their price is significant due to performance characteristics so simply buying either of those just to have the biggest MP's on the block is somewhat of a silly thing to do. The Canon 1Ds is your high-end sports shooter and your Kodak DCS is more your studio and just-this-side-of medium format. There's a 8.5MP Canon 1D Mark II that has been recently released which has everyone in the Pro Canon world losing sleep and speaking incoherently. It's high FPS, E-TTL II, WB accuracy and a host of other features are a Pro's dream come true at $4,500.00.

There are other 'high' megapixel cameras out there but you mention wanting to leverage your existing EF Lenses so digicams are irrelevant here as are references to Nikon's DRebel killer, the D70. Your existing lens collection puts you squarely in Canon territory unless you're willing to jump ship. As you well know lenses very quickly outweigh your Camera purchase.

There's more to the megapixel story than sheer numbers however. Pixel density, chipset architecture and color sampling are done differently between manufacturers and even between varieties of manufaturers' cameras. A CMOS sensor has strengths/weaknesses compared to CCD sensors and whether you shoot in controlled light, available light or no light makes a difference on your intended ISO shooting range. That said, buying new into the DSLR world right now will net you an excellent quality camera so the mentioned argument of pixel density and chipset architecture though important becomes more of an endeavor in hair splitting than moat crossing.

Print size per MP is relative in some respects depending on what you're shooting. An 8x10 landscape picture taken through airplane glass is going to have different detail requirements than say the same size print of a flower macro. Assumed quality lenses equal, your MP rating comes into play when assessing detail per print size. Resolution; dpi process of your photo-lab or photo-printer affect your printing as well; similarly if your printer caps at 200dpi and you're image contains 300+dpi of information. A 4MP D30 will render you a near indistinguishable 4x6, 5x7 print to a 6MP 10D or even 11MP 1Ds. Even up to 8x10 print size there can be little if any difference in resolution and image quality if your skillz make effective use of the camera's potentional. 6MP will net you solid 13x19 potential and depending on what you're shooting, even larger. 6MP will get you a nice 13x19 or even 22x33 of a landscape or aerial ground shot but a macro shot in that size is going to leave a little to be desired if you're going for crisp detail standing w/in 5' of the picture. The farther you stand from the printed image, the less critical the fine detail.

There's also a digital rendering discussion of 'adding' pixels in software, but the base modus operandi is do it right in glass first.

For your stated price range going with a DRebel for under a grand is a good way to get your feet wet and get the job done. It carries the same 6MP CMOS sensor as the 10D and produces slightly better out-of-camera images (does a slight amount of consumer post processing in-camera). If you're serious about manual control, durability and photographic flexibility however, don't hesitate to get the 10D. It's a stellar camera within' its price range.

Personally, if your needs are simple I'd go with the smaller wallet hit of the DRebel and if you really get into it and what to upgrade then you'll be in a better position financially when the newer models hit next year. I love my 10D but would really like the Digic II and ETTL II processors the MKII sports this year. A DRebel or 10D refresh or replacment is hoped for by many. Until then, we're all very happy shooting in the DRebel and 10D worlds.

-Sketcher
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Good info, thanks! I may not limit myself to a grand. I just want to be sure I can earn enough revenue to justify it. I saw the features on the cacon 1d mark II. Now to convince the wife! I can earn a good rate per hour, the question is will there be enough hours.

Keeping my existing lenses would be a plus. Its hard to say whether the digital rebel would be adequate for my purposes. It would be nice to have a camera dealer that would let me borrow it for the day. Too bad walmart does not carry them. ;)
 

myusername

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2003
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It really depends on what type of aerial photography you are doing. If you're doing pics so the local church can print a 4x6 200 lpi picture on their bulletin cover, then no probs. If you're doing commercial work for a company that wants to print a 30x40 of their new manufacturing plant that they can display in a hallway/walkway, it's gonna look like crap. The digital Rebel is 6mp, or an 18 mb file. After cropping, that's slightly smaller than an 8x10 at 300dpi and you have to deal with the bayer effect that you don't get in film. 35mm looks cleaner and sharper than the rebel at an 8x10 (the rebel is quite passable, but someone looking for it will be able to tell that it is "digital"), and it only gets worse the larger you go. If you can pass that off on your clients, it makes sense to go digital now. If not, you might want to wait until you can get foveon X3 technology (or similar) in a 12+ mp camera. Also, while megapixels are not the be all and end all, particularly with cheap consumer cameras, there is a crapload of difference between an image from the 14N and something from an S2. Not that I am suggesting the 14N - as mentioned, it does better in controlled lighting situations.
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
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the difference between a professional camera and a gimmick isn't megapixels, its the other features.

Like with the EOS-1D and the new one that just came out (or is coming out), their advantage over the competition is that they have great lenses, good features (like full F-stop, great AF system, etc.) and they can take lots of pictures quickly due to some high speed built in memory.

For a wedding photographer (my mother) this means no winding the old hasselblad and a better chance to actually capture great candid photos. Which means more money. the 1D will take images sharp enough for all wedding purposes. The 1Ds will take pictures sharp enough for portrait purposes, but we aren't using one because a hasselblad works just as well, and we already have a few of those.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: Linux23
What EF lenses do you currently have?

Sigma - 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Super Lens
Sigma - 28-105mm F3.8-5.6 UC-III Lens
Quantaray - 600-1000mm Zoom Lens

I've got about twice as much invested in the lenses as the camera body.

myusername, that is some good info. Mainly it would be houses but there will be the commercial client that wants a poster size picture. I would prefer digital just for the fact that I can view the pictures a lot quicker. My partner could even bringthe laptop up in the plane if need be.
 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,237
0
0
Originally posted by: rudder
I would prefer digital just for the fact that I can view the pictures a lot quicker. My partner could even bringthe laptop up in the plane if need be.
Last weekend I used my 10D & Laptop w/GSM modem to photograph a house for a realtor friend. She had anticipated getting the film 1-hour developed w/a photo-disc for uploading the images to her website. I resized the images for web, uploaded them to her website and burned her a disc all w/in 15 minutes of finishing the shoot. Saved her not only film processing, but time. There's a market in there somewhere for someone to save a realty firm the time and expense of having their own realtors do this work, but I don't know that I want to spend my free time that way...

Anway, you're right in that having a digital SLR and laptop would be of significant benefit. Key is to know how your image is displayed on your laptop as compared to the web, CRT or print. Some laptop screens do not provide accurate color rendition or contrast so you might discard some images which view just fine in print or other media. A device such as Colorvision's Spyder helps out with LCD/CRT monitor adjustment, but most laptops don't allow for the level of adjustment which good photo management requires.

Cheers