Anyone have a Surface Pro 2? Any reason not to get it?

[bearxor]

The "Store" is the real crux of of Microsofts product portfolio. There's just too damn many versions with no real overlap between them. Windows Phone has one. Windows RT has one. Windows 8 (x86) has one. Xbox has one. And none of them are compatible with one another. There's a fraction of apps that Android or iOS have. Microsoft has totally failed in convincing developers to put time into their ecosystem and it will ultimately be what keeps the Surface and Windows 8 devices from ever gaining any serious market share.

The upshot with the Pro is that you have the full library of x86 apps available and can pretty much run any program that a Windows desktop can.

Unless I'm missing something, the x86 store and the RT store are the same store. I suppose there could be apps that aren't compiled for ARM, but I was able to setup the Lumia 2520 and redownload everything I had purchased from the store on the Surface Pro.

 

[zerogear]

Unless I'm missing something, the x86 store and the RT store are the same store. I suppose there could be apps that aren't compiled for ARM, but I was able to setup the Lumia 2520 and redownload everything I had purchased from the store on the Surface Pro.

You are correct sir.

After Threshold (Windows 9) or 8.1, RT and WP should be merging. Currently only seperation is WP and RT/x86

 

[vi edit]

Ok, so that might be changing from an account standpoint, but does the programming that goes into them have consistency? Meaning, do developers have to program for three different platforms?

One other *really* annoying thing with the Windows store is that it's tied to each user profile on the device. If I have a profile for me, and one for each of my kids, each profile needs the application installed. Store applications are not shared.

Lame.

 

[bearxor]

Ok, so that might be changing from an account standpoint, but does the programming that goes into them have consistency? Meaning, do developers have to program for three different platforms?

I didn't think they had to code differently. Everything seems to work the same cross platform. But...

One other *really* annoying thing with the Windows store is that it's tied to each user profile on the device. If I have a profile for me, and one for each of my kids, each profile needs the application installed. Store applications are not shared.

Lame.

This is seriously the lamest thing ever. In a world where I can have three iPads and three iPhones and share a iTunes account across all the devices and so I buy an app once and it downloads everywhere, not being able to purchase a windows store app under a profile and then hand the exact same computer to my wife, have her log in under her profile and not be able to access something as simple as Netflix without having to redownload it from the store is, quite possibly, the worst idea ever.

Especially on RT devices where space is more limited. Do you need to download three copies of Spartan Assault for every person that might play it on a 32GB Surface? That's going to add up quick.

 

[roguerower]

I couldn't wait for a 256/8 version so I went to BestBuy and bought the 128/4 version.

Ho. Lee. She. Ite.

This thing is awesome. I'm still working out the kinks and figuring out how to navigate around, but it's a pretty badass little device. This is the tablet I've been waiting for.

 

[Canbacon]

Touch mouse pointer will be your best friend.

http://www.lovesummertrue.com/touchmousepointer/en-us/

 

[zerogear]

Ok, so that might be changing from an account standpoint, but does the programming that goes into them have consistency? Meaning, do developers have to program for three different platforms?

Microsoft has stated that applications written in WinRT can run on Windows 8 and WOA (Windows on ARM). Here's a link from Microsoft talking about this

 

[badb0y]

I was thinking about getting the Dell Venue Pro 11 would the SP2 be better?

 

[zerogear]

I was thinking about getting the Dell Venue Pro 11 would the SP2 be better?

It depends entirely on what you need. Some people really like the clamshell on the keyboard, however I heard that Dell was still having some issues with that. It features a Y processor, which is less powerful than U mobile processors. The stylus on Dell Venue Pro 11 isn't as good as the Wacom one on Surface Pro/2. But Dell Venue Pro 11 has a removable battery and SP2 doesn't.

One of the clenchers for me is I don't have to rely on OEMs to provide driver updates and such. Everything, drivers, firmware is delivered through Windows Update, and I never need to worry about that stuff.

 

[badb0y]

It depends entirely on what you need. Some people really like the clamshell on the keyboard, however I heard that Dell was still having some issues with that. It features a Y processor, which is less powerful than U mobile processors. The stylus on Dell Venue Pro 11 isn't as good as the Wacom one on Surface Pro/2. But Dell Venue Pro 11 has a removable battery and SP2 doesn't.

One of the clenchers for me is I don't have to rely on OEMs to provide driver updates and such. Everything, drivers, firmware is delivered through Windows Update, and I never need to worry about that stuff.

Good point, is the SP2 all that heavy? I am planning on going to Best Buy soon just to mess around with it. Currently, I have an iPad mini and I read a lot of my textbooks on it so I will be holding up the tablet for extended periods of time.

 

[quikah]

Good point, is the SP2 all that heavy? I am planning on going to Best Buy soon just to mess around with it. Currently, I have an iPad mini and I read a lot of my textbooks on it so I will be holding up the tablet for extended periods of time.

I played with one at the ms store, i cannot imagine holding it for long. It is heavy for a tablet and kind of thick. 3x heavier than the mini.

 

[Imaginer]

It's awesome I agree, and the only reason why not to get it is the price.

For what it is worth, I think it is a HELLUVA good price (not great, but good for what you get).

It is a nicer tablet PC than the days of thick swivel hinge laptops, that are slow to convert and use in a tablet pen mode (even more un-friendly are the touch aspects in older devices). The pen is the biggest draw in levels of sensitivity that is on par with normal pen and in certain applications, painting.

It has a power of a laptop when needed. I have gamed with this little device of sweet awesome, it can do this well enough.

Modern/Metro IS NOT BAD at all. This device proves that. And with a desktop, I can easily work files both at home for power, and light to medium work on the go. On battery, you do have to keep some settings to be under balanced or performance if the battery saver option is keeping things at times slow.

I do not mind the charms bar, it has it's place. I also made use of power commands via right clicking. It doesn't take me long to acclimate. I even find myself lost when going back to Windows 7.

The IPS screen is colored well and is a must for the various angles I would use it on my lap like a sketchbook, or in a stand mode for "laptop" esq moments. Granted, it is only for two seating heights due to the stand, but given the table space, it can be moved closer or further (or hell, I just put the thing flat and treat it like a spiral bound notebook with a keyboard).

Desktop navigation is not that bad and on occasion, I have defaulted to TouchMousePointer (for Steam anyways), but at 125% and my light touch of my finger tips, it is definitely workable. Ribbon interfaces of Office and File Explorer definitely has advantages here, but I hide them because I do not need the visual access to the commands that often (a simple hold of a finger press is a right click).

I love drawing on this. I liked drawing on the PC since I had an Intuos 2. I have an Intuos 4, but since my Surface Pro (and 2) came, I seldomly have use of it despite the greater sensitivity and pen tilt and barrel rotate (would love to see the latter two at least be a part of the next iteration or any other like minded tablet PC devices). That is how much I favor the close to on screen to drawing pen I value.

There are edge calibration issues going to the Wacom drivers from their webpages, but this is a double edge sword. Many drawing programs I use rely on the WinTAB model, versus the Ink API. (Manga Studio and Art Rage can work with both, but Corel Painter and Photoshop at the time were WinTAB only)

Since it handles 3D well, I threw Mudbox and it is nice to edit 3D models with playdough ease (though I have not manipulated things organically to that degree, a software I am still learning with). But this works and it works well enough.

I know many Anandtech (and DailyTech commenters) hate 8. The Surface Pro (and 2) along with other tablet PCs that are redefined, say otherwise for me. Despite having a Windows store to consolidate major listings of desktop applications along with new "applets" of Modern apps, I have only but a small collection of actively used apps (default News and Windows Mail for a quick email look, a graphing calculator, a scientific calculator, Kindle, Comixology, and Nook.

I also at times tote my (and I will vouch this as a wrist healthy pointer) trackball. No need for lots of desk room with the combo setup.

I would be again more happy, if it had an extra full USB 3.0 port and the pen tilt and barrel rotate recognition (fully fleshed out calligraphy options), but that is just something a bit more for now. A user serviceable battery would also be nice, just in case (but given the access panels and mechanisms adding bulk, I am even happy I moved from a "heavy" Envy 14.

The sweet spot configuration is the 8GB of RAM and the 256GB SSD.

I say it is well worth it for the sheer travel capabilities and laptop power. To those needing more of a "laptop", things like the Yoga 2 Pro are not far behind.

 

[Imaginer]

I played with one at the ms store, i cannot imagine holding it for long. It is heavy for a tablet and kind of thick. 3x heavier than the mini.

Heavy? Two handing this thing is not heavy at all (and is pretty much what I do but if rarely at all).

Most of the time, this is on my lap, or flat on a table. If needed at times, I hold it like a clipboard and write with the pen and touching for some interfacing.

I can see it being heavy if one wants to one hand their tablet all the time, but I seldom do this anyways (and again, the clipboard way of holding it pretty much treats this as a light textbook in one hand).

Coming from the average laptop (and the typical clamshell ultrabook) this handles far better for off desk usage.

 

[Imaginer]

It depends entirely on what you need. Some people really like the clamshell on the keyboard, however I heard that Dell was still having some issues with that. It features a Y processor, which is less powerful than U mobile processors. The stylus on Dell Venue Pro 11 isn't as good as the Wacom one on Surface Pro/2. But Dell Venue Pro 11 has a removable battery and SP2 doesn't.

One of the clenchers for me is I don't have to rely on OEMs to provide driver updates and such. Everything, drivers, firmware is delivered through Windows Update, and I never need to worry about that stuff.

For a time, I had to resort to the Intel graphics drivers for some games. I also as mentioned before, resorted to Wacom's drivers.

It is nice that the Windows Updates takes care of things (mostly - that infamous battery update in December). But to the seasoned PC user, some solutions are not too far off reach and being able to just as easily implement (outside writing the drivers oneself from scratch for me of course).

 

[Imaginer]

I didn't think they had to code differently. Everything seems to work the same cross platform. But...


This is seriously the lamest thing ever. In a world where I can have three iPads and three iPhones and share a iTunes account across all the devices and so I buy an app once and it downloads everywhere, not being able to purchase a windows store app under a profile and then hand the exact same computer to my wife, have her log in under her profile and not be able to access something as simple as Netflix without having to redownload it from the store is, quite possibly, the worst idea ever.

Especially on RT devices where space is more limited. Do you need to download three copies of Spartan Assault for every person that might play it on a 32GB Surface? That's going to add up quick.

I don't think that is the case. Up to 5 PCs (accounts work in here too) can all access apps. The Windows Store sign in is for the primary buyer account (not necessarily tied with a Microsoft account or local one. Different Microsoft accounts will allow for individual Skydrive access for one, and both local and Microsoft accounts still retain local PC network and sharing permissions with files and folders as before.

http://www.howtogeek.com/134317/how-to-share-apps-between-different-user-accounts-on-windows-8/

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-tip-share-apps-between-multiple-accounts

Granted, you have to go in and manually log into the Windows store (with the buying account, payment password in place) for each account to share to for install (not sure for updating), but it is one of the legitimate gripes of functionality (besides everything jarring to many PC users for 8).

 

[badb0y]

I'll hold off and wait for thinner and lighter SP3 later this year.

 

[ozymandius42]

Regarding weight, it really depends on what you're used to. Anyone who is used to handling larger journals/books should be fine with reading it in 'tablet' form. That being said, I can see why for some people continuous usage maybe a problem (given the SP2s weight). For me personally, the weight is not really a problem.

One issue worth noting for those working with secure wifi networks (esp. universities) is that the new Marvell drivers really mess up connections to network. A lot of people both in the US and Europe/the UK have reported it and I had the problem myself on a university wifi network. The only workaround for me was to downgrade the wifi adapter driver. But its not a big issue as long as they fix the problem in future updates (fingers crossed).

Regarding SP2 v. Venue 11, for me the stylus won the battle for the SP2. While the removable battery almost convinced me on the Venue11, the stylus (and esp. OneNote) is SO much better on the SP2. Also, this is just a subjective opinion, but I felt the SP2 had a better 'reading' display for text.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah the size/weight thing is something that is awkward at first, but you get used to it. The first day or two of having it in my hands/on my lap it seemed like a huge device. I think that's mainly due to the stretched format of the screen. It's just wide in landscape and tall in portrait compared to an iPad. Plus it's just a very dense weighted device, but it's a well balanced weight.

 

[quikah]

Heavy? Two handing this thing is not heavy at all (and is pretty much what I do but if rarely at all).

Most of the time, this is on my lap, or flat on a table. If needed at times, I hold it like a clipboard and write with the pen and touching for some interfacing.

I can see it being heavy if one wants to one hand their tablet all the time, but I seldom do this anyways (and again, the clipboard way of holding it pretty much treats this as a light textbook in one hand).

Yes, it is heavy for a tablet. Compared to a laptop it is great, but compare to any tablet and it is heavy.

I think it is a pretty awesome machine, makes a great laptop replacement. if the majority of time it will be used on a desk it will be fine. If you plan to hold it the majority of time, i think it would be too heavy.

 

[baydude]

If you're using the SP2 docked on a monitor, is it possible to completely remove the Metro/store and have it run x86 desktop mode only?

 

[Red Storm]

I was close to getting a SP2, but it's just too thick and heavy for me. Waiting to see what version 3 is like.

 

[zerogear]

If you're using the SP2 docked on a monitor, is it possible to completely remove the Metro/store and have it run x86 desktop mode only?

Yes you can install Classic shell, but then it begs the question, why even buy Surface Pro 2 if you're just going to keep it docked considering there are cheaper options.

 

[ozymandius42]

Yes you can install Classic shell, but then it begs the question, why even buy Surface Pro 2 if you're just going to keep it docked considering there are cheaper options.

Classic shell is great, and I use to run the SP2 as a straight win7 laptop replacement. It leaves me with enough flexibility to use it in 'tablet' form as well. I've tried running this with a usb hub and an external display. It seemed responsive and I can see the upside of having a laptop/tablet with the capability to dock if needed. I would agree with you though, getting it primarily for keeping it docked seems a little inefficient.

 

[Imaginer]

Classic shell is great, and I use to run the SP2 as a straight win7 laptop replacement. It leaves me with enough flexibility to use it in 'tablet' form as well. I've tried running this with a usb hub and an external display. It seemed responsive and I can see the upside of having a laptop/tablet with the capability to dock if needed. I would agree with you though, getting it primarily for keeping it docked seems a little inefficient.

If you are always desk bound in one physical location when operating any computer, might as well go for a powerful desktop tower and monitor setup. A mobile device, laptops, tablet PCs, allow for working anywhere - and that is where that major strength and point lies.

Laptops, have the ability to be relocated to a different physical location (in some cases of computing power, near an outlet for energy concerns). Tablet PCs enable work to be just about anywhere, depending on your energy unplugged time and internet connections and receptions.



Which brings me to my immediate use example of being able to take my Surface Pro 2 out and just draw when something is of fancy. Or even take notes that of a spur of the moment (with a degree of lines, control, and diagramming options). If needed, I can immediately continue work on more heavy hitting desktop programs. These do not need to be reworked for a desktop PC, because since it is a full Windows 8 machine, I can come back to my Core i7, 32GB RAM desktop and apply those drawings and notes to refine them with more processing power.

In short, while the tablet devices up to now are whimsical in pick up and play, the Surface Pro, Pro 2, and other tablet PCs are pick up and do (work and play).

As a launcher, the Start menu makes sense to replace my desktop icons, but even more so with the Surface Pro 2. I would disagree with some advanced options (wireless and networking being the biggest thing, if there is another option from the "Metro"/Modern areas to pull up the properties and advanced functions of the wireless adapter or connection settings of that remembered SSID, then I would like that. But there are certain disconnects in that area, as I mentioned before in the past.

My only complaint? Why has this mentality of the tablet PC has not come out sooner in such a form (realizing there are options from less emphasis of a permanent keyboard to the device, swivel hinge inefficiencies, full 360 laptop hinge moments for completely folding into a tablet mode, while retaining hinge locking in for laptop use). Instead, the mass market has followed the 3 tier device and the syncing options (phone, tablet-reader-app, and laptop [and a fourth case, desktop PC]).

I welcome some convergence. I will say this though, the physical form factor is the ultimate dictator as why I will still have a phone - and expect it to be a device for immediate communication, immediate quick information access and back out, and some media (namely music, fuck video on such a tiny device). Everything else, on a tablet PC.

 

[bearxor]

I don't think that is the case. Up to 5 PCs (accounts work in here too) can all access apps. The Windows Store sign in is for the primary buyer account (not necessarily tied with a Microsoft account or local one. Different Microsoft accounts will allow for individual Skydrive access for one, and both local and Microsoft accounts still retain local PC network and sharing permissions with files and folders as before.

http://www.howtogeek.com/134317/how-to-share-apps-between-different-user-accounts-on-windows-8/

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-tip-share-apps-between-multiple-accounts

Granted, you have to go in and manually log into the Windows store (with the buying account, payment password in place) for each account to share to for install (not sure for updating), but it is one of the legitimate gripes of functionality (besides everything jarring to many PC users for 8).

I think, perhaps, you've misunderstood what I was saying.

Fully aware that I can sign in to the same store account on different profiles.

What I can't do, however, is download an application from the windows store and have it be accessible to everyone that signs in to the computer. If I hand the Lumia 2520 to the wife, even though she' signing in with my Microsoft Store account under her profile, she has to have her own copy of Netflix. Her own copy of Hulu. Her own copy of Zillow. Even though I've already downloaded them using my profile. Those apps should be accessible across profiles without having to redownload and maintain them separately.