anyone going to get the new ipod touch?

[Pliablemoose]

.

Yet costs less than half of a comparable iPhone...

If there are such glaring problems, Apple has left itself wide open for a competitor to do better job. Mr Market seems to level things out...

No one is stopping anyone from building a better device for less money. And by the way, prices on this stuff is going to go up with the international pressure to provide better working conditions for the folks that build these devices.

 

[MrX8503]

And yet none of that actually counters the fact that it has half the RAM, a crappier screen, and a crappier camera than the iPhone. Yet on the previous generations the devices were nearly-if-not-identical in hardware that they both had, like RAM and display screen.

When you compare apples to apples, meaning comparing a given generation's touch versus that same generation's iPhone, this is the first time they're SIGNIFICANTLY reducing the touch's hardware quality/quanitity compared to the iPhone. Thus, when comparing apples to apples, it is a poorer deal for the buyer. You may not want to acknowledge that, but it's still true.

From what I remember, the iPhone 3G/3GS wasn't that big of a leap. What did you get in this leap? More ram and a faster processor. Thats only two things. The iPod Touch didn't have a camera at the time either, so it wasn't a true iPhone-without-the-phone to begin with.

With the new iPhone 4 you got...

1. More Ram
2. Faster Processor
3. Retina Display
4. IPS Display
5. 2x Cameras
6. 720P recording

On top of all of this people want GPS added to the Touch to boot.

This is asking a lot and is clearly not even in the same ballpark back in the 3G/3GS days. Also the iPod Touch 4 is even thinner. People want everything, but there has to be compromises.

 

[herkulease]

I really don't get people's mentality of saying that Apple gimps their stuff so they can update it later. What Apple does is apply the technology that is available at the time while trying to stay above the competition. People complained about how the 3rd gen iPod Touch didn't have a camera, well it couldn't fit. This is further relevant in the 4th Gen.

HTC, MOTO, and SAMSUNG, will all be updating their devices, its called technology advancement.

leaked prototypes 3rd gen showed it had a camera. But the release model didn't.

apple didn't like something about it. size, quality who knows what exactly.

apple gimping thing claim likely comes from yearly releases of products with minor upgrades touted as revolutionary. Also its has a nearly identical form factor.

I haven't seen htc/moto/samsung release nearly identical products but they don't get nearly the same press attention.

only thing I can think of is the droid 1 and droid 2. nearly identical form factors and a year apart. I'm not sure though if a 1ghz cpu was available last year.

I will not blame them for "gimping" things. If you get suckers to buy a new one every year why not. They are a business after all.

I know better so I wait it out. I still have a 1st gen ipod touch. Only now do I feel its time to upgrade.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

And yet none of that actually counters the fact that it has half the RAM, a crappier screen, and a crappier camera than the iPhone. Yet on the previous generations the devices were nearly-if-not-identical in hardware that they both had, like RAM and display screen.

When you compare apples to apples, meaning comparing a given generation's touch versus that same generation's iPhone, this is the first time they're SIGNIFICANTLY reducing the touch's hardware quality/quanitity compared to the iPhone. Thus, when comparing apples to apples, it is a poorer deal for the buyer. You may not want to acknowledge that, but it's still true.

Absolutely ridiculous. Let's not even forget when HTC released phone after phone after phone that was based on the ARM11 528mhz Qualcomm Processor. This was well after Samsung released its Cortex A8 Omnia i8910 HD, after Apple announced the 3GS, etc etc. It was clear that the world was pushing for a new generation of chips but HTC kept releasing crap like that (lol@Droid Eris). The whole Touch Diamond, Touch Diamond 2 was essentially the same product. I can recall the # of people who were like "Come on!!! LED Flash already... come on a faster CPU damnit!" No one's releasing a product that's crippled or anything, get over it. If anything, releasing the same crap over and over again is best done by Motorola which saw its marketshare dwindle from 2004 - 2008 before the DROID came out. If this is such a big issue for Apple, let's watch its iPhone and iPod sales shrivel up now.

Also, if you paid attention to the 3rd Generation rumors, most of the late ones circulated around the fact that the camera got canceled due to production issues. Apple WAS trying to stick that camera in the Touch, but could not do so by the September timeframe it seems. That or it only planned on doing so in the Nano. Whatever dude, it's marketing, who cares? You can't have EVERYTHING in one device. Go look at Canon's forums and see the people complain about if we could have the 7D's awesome autofocus in a 5D. No because then the 1D professional series wouldn't sell at all. You can't load the Touch up so much that no one even wants a Nano or Shuffle anymore. Granted those are lower end, but they needed something to keep breathing life into it. The camera worked for the Nano to an extent. Either way Apple's finally managed to put the camera in the 4th gen iPod Touch.

Why would you compare apples to apples with an iPhone? Because in the years before you got a lot of similar things? Because somewhere a $200 product MUST have the same features as a $600 smartphone? And that $400 difference in price can only be attributed to the lack of a cell radio, and cannot differ in screen, RAM, etc etc? Look at it this way. The device is as fast as an iPad which was announced only 2 months before the iPhone 4. I think itll be fine. IF you can show the iPod getting absolutely raped because of its 256MB then sure go complain, but I'm guessing itll be just fine.

 

[MrX8503]

I think Apple tried to fit a camera into the iPod, but it didn't fit or something. So they axed it. Regardless people got really mad over it.

My opinion is that if Apple products are as good or better than the current competition when it's released, then I have no qualms about what the revision offers.

Me personally, I don't upgrade all that often. My last phone was a Touch Diamond running WinMo 6.5.

Absolutely ridiculous. Let's not even forget when HTC released phone after phone after phone that was based on the ARM11 528mhz Qualcomm Processor.

I agree! Damn, that pissed me off so much. "Introducing a new HTC phone!....with the same old processor!"

 

[cronos]

I really don't get people's mentality of saying that Apple gimps their stuff so they can update it later. What Apple does is apply the technology that is available at the time while trying to stay above the competition. People complained about how the 3rd gen iPod Touch didn't have a camera, well it couldn't fit. This is further relevant in the 4th Gen.

HTC, MOTO, and SAMSUNG, will all be updating their devices, its called technology advancement.

Do you really think the technology for MMS didn't exist when the original iPhone was released three years ago?

 

[QueBert]

Wait so companies release newer version of a product that are better?? color me shocked.
My GF just bought a Droid 2, and it's pretty much my Droid 1 with a better keyboard. Why does Apple get shitted on for releasing new products every year when many companies do it? And any gen Touch to the next was a bigger jump in what you got than the Droid 1 -> Droid 2.

Some people just can't ever be pleased. I guess Apple should just save up technology for 10 years without releasing any Touch or iPhone and release a mega uber one that does everything.

 

[MrX8503]

Do you really think the technology for MMS didn't exist when the original iPhone was released three years ago?

I don't see how us talking about hardware tech advancement has anything to do with software.

 

[cronos]

I don't see how us talking about hardware tech advancement has anything to do with software.

I guess I misunderstood your point, but to me gimping a device is gimping a device regardless of whether it's hardware or software. I don't know about you, but I saw it as Apple blatantly gimping its own device for easy money on selling the upgrade a year later.

For a hardware example, how about 3G, GPS and the 2MP camera on the original iPhone? The technology was definitely there because the Nokia N95 came out earlier and it had 3G, GPS, and a 5MP camera (with front facing camera for video call too! *gasp*).

 

[KentState]

Wait so companies release newer version of a product that are better?? color me shocked.
My GF just bought a Droid 2, and it's pretty much my Droid 1 with a better keyboard. Why does Apple get shitted on for releasing new products every year when many companies do it? And any gen Touch to the next was a bigger jump in what you got than the Droid 1 -> Droid 2.

Some people just can't ever be pleased. I guess Apple should just save up technology for 10 years without releasing any Touch or iPhone and release a mega uber one that does everything.

Not even a close comparison. The iPhone 4 was out 5-6 months ago and the new iPod Touch is lacking current features. Nice try making this into an Android/Apple argument with your straw-man comparison.

 

[MrX8503]

I guess I misunderstood your point, but to me gimping a device is gimping a device regardless of whether it's hardware or software. I don't know about you, but I saw it as Apple blatantly gimping its own device for easy money on selling the upgrade a year later.

For a hardware example, how about 3G, GPS and the 2MP camera on the original iPhone? The technology was definitely there because the Nokia N95 came out earlier and it had 3G, GPS, and a 5MP camera (with front facing camera for video call too! *gasp*).

Well we were talking about hardware because my argument was that current tech does not fit into the Touch's form factor.

As for the "first" argument. I really grow tiresome of this. Apple is never the "first" of anything but at least they do it right. Two examples are copy/paste and video chat. I don't care if both tech was out 1000 years ago, if the implemention is pure garbage I don't care about it.

Currently apple is the best at copy/paste and mobile video chat.

Also guess what? The iphone4 has the best camera on a mobile device at only 5mp *gasp*

 

[TheStu]

Not even a close comparison. The iPhone 4 was out 5-6 months ago and the new iPod Touch is lacking current features. Nice try making this into an Android/Apple argument with your straw-man comparison.

iPhone 4 was unveiled in June 2010, iPod Touch 4 was unveiled September 2010, at best a 3 month difference.

Also, he was not the first person to relate the specs of the iPod Touch 4 to Android phones. Something about identical devices... I didn't completely follow the thought.

The fact of the matter is, from a moderation standpoint... 9 times out of 10, if someone makes either an Apple or an Android thread someone else, from the other side (as it were) is going to show up and make a comment. Thus far, this thread has been pretty good, differing opinions without anyone (that I have noticed) going personal or swearing or violating the rules. I can't step in anytime everyone goes off thread, particularly not if it isn't wildly off tangent.

 

[zerocool84]

Well we were talking about hardware because my argument was that current tech does not fit into the Touch's form factor.

As for the "first" argument. I really grow tiresome of this. Apple is never the "first" of anything but at least they do it right. Two examples are copy/paste and video chat. I don't care if both tech was out 1000 years ago, if the implemention is pure garbage I don't care about it.

Currently apple is the best at copy/paste and mobile video chat.

Also guess what? The iphone4 has the best camera on a mobile device at only 5mp *gasp*

Apple is NOT the best at mobile video chat. When you can only do it over wifi, it's not the best.

 

[MrX8503]

Apple is NOT the best at mobile video chat. When you can only do it over wifi, it's not the best.

That is unfortunate but there is fring. In any case other devices that can do vid chat, wifi or 3G, is pure garbage.

 

[Pardus]

Buddy of mine works at the apple store and can get me the ipod touch v4 with 32gig for $280+tax with his discount. i might get it now or wait for it till show up as refurbished at the apple store.

 

[cronos]

Well we were talking about hardware because my argument was that current tech does not fit into the Touch's form factor.

Ok then.

My argument here is that nobody was forcing Apple to create a form factor this thin. Apple intentionally decide on the form factor as thin as this *because* they can then 'improve' it next year with a better camera/what-have-you by adding a few mm of thickness --> profit!

As for the "first" argument. I really grow tiresome of this. Apple is never the "first" of anything but at least they do it right. Two examples are copy/paste and video chat. I don't care if both tech was out 1000 years ago, if the implemention is pure garbage I don't care about it.

Why are you changing the subject? We were not talking about who's 'first' and whether or not it's the 'best'. We were discussing about how Apple intentionally gimping their devices for easy money grab for an 'upgrade' on their next iteration.

You claimed that this is untrue. Your quote: "I really don't get people's mentality of saying that Apple gimps their stuff so they can update it later. What Apple does is apply the technology that is available at the time while trying to stay above the competition. "

Clearly you don't think that Apple ever gimped. I thought you were being naive, so I mentioned MMS (it's the first thing that came into my mind. technology is technology), a technology that's already ubiquitous when the original iPhone was released.

You said you were not talking about software.

Fine, so I came back with hardware examples: 3G, GPS, and lackluster camera at 2MP as an example of how a 'hardware technology' like these (much better, in case of the camera) clearly had existed at the time but Apple did not include them on the original iPhone.

Please respond appropriately to what we're actually discussing.

================

Btw, the funny thing here is that to answer the question in the OP, I'm actually going to get the new Touch If it had been a 2MP (or better) rear camera in it I'd probably already pre-ordered it before Steve Jobs could say "one more thing....".

Yes, I think Apple gimped the Touch 4 like there's no tomorrow (read Anand's great review on it), but I also think it's a great device nonetheless and it is priced somewhat reasonably considering its features. I'll be getting it in the next few weeks or so.

 

[MrX8503]

Ok then.

My argument here is that nobody was forcing Apple to create a form factor this thin. Apple intentionally decide on the form factor as thin as this *because* they can then 'improve' it next year with a better camera/what-have-you by adding a few mm of thickness --> profit!

Dude you totally just made that whole scenario up on your head. It has no basis.

Why are you changing the subject?

You're the one who brought up software, I didn't.

We were not talking about who's 'first' and whether or not it's the 'best'.

Uh you did...see below.

For a hardware example, how about 3G, GPS and the 2MP camera on the original iPhone? The technology was definitely there because the Nokia N95 came out earlier and it had 3G, GPS, and a 5MP camera (with front facing camera for video call too! *gasp*).

...And then you retract saying its not about the "best" only because I shut you down by saying that the iPhone does copy/paste, camera, vid chat better than other phones that did it "earlier". For some reason being earlier is an advantage to you.

Clearly you don't think that Apple ever gimped.

False, I'm merely stating that their hardware upgrades are in line with what any other manufacturer would do. How long did it take for other phone manufacturers to create a competent capacitive screen again? Oh yeah, forever.

 

[cronos]

I think I have only myself to blame here for being sucked into this discussion. I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to understand what I was saying but for some reason you did everything you could to avoid admitting that Apple does sometimes gimp their devices (yes, just like any other manufacturers sometimes do too! these companies are out there to make money, it's not so hard to understand that they do these things).

I'm going to start over again.

- Someone here claimed that Apple gimp their devices.

- You disagree by saying that "What Apple does is apply the technology that is available at the time" <-- your quote.

- I showed you evidences of the contrary to that statement.

 

[kami]

As for the ram issue it's my understanding this is only really a multi-tasking issue. You can multi-task less things at once compared to an iphone 4.

No developer is going to make an app or game that shuts out people with 256mb devices, let alone the multitude with 128mb iOS devices (any time soon anyway). The touch 4g is basically identical to an ipad with a slightly lower clock speed...you think they're gonna phase that one out tomorrow?

It's obvious apple wants the iphone to always be their flagship device. I think that's only part of it though... the other part is a cost issue and form factor issue. Being thinner is going to limit what they can do, and while I would be FINE with them making it as thick as an iphone 4, try telling that to their marketing people. These things are supposed to be getting thinner and lighter, not thicker... at least from a marketing perspective. As for cost, the phone without a contract is $400 more... surely that's more than just a cell radio that the extra cost covers. Such a tiny high res IPS display can't be cheap either. I also think the manufacturing costs of these devices are going up, as someone mentioned with the increased wages of foxconn workers, etc... the cost is going to be passed onto us either in the form of higher prices or slightly gimped hardware.

As for the actual device I am enjoying the heck out of it. It's only my second ipod ever, the first being a 1 gig first gen nano like 5 years ago so I may be donning the rose tinted glasses but I am glued to this thing.

 

[MrX8503]

- You disagree by saying that "What Apple does is apply the technology that is available at the time" <-- your quote.

- I showed you evidences of the contrary to that statement.

Well I didn't want to make it seem like apple never gimps their products because they have in some areas. What I was trying to get across was that they dont do anything much different in the form of hardware upgrades compared to other manufacturers.

 

[cronos]

Well I didn't want to make it seem like apple never gimps their products because they have in some areas. What I was trying to get across was that they dont do anything much different in the form of hardware upgrades compared to other manufacturers.

Well what do you know, now we're in agreement ^_^

 

[QueBert]

Not even a close comparison. The iPhone 4 was out 5-6 months ago and the new iPod Touch is lacking current features. Nice try making this into an Android/Apple argument with your straw-man comparison.

I think it's more than fair to bring up. I played with her Droid TWO and outside of the keyboard it was no different than my Droid 1, except for Moto Blur or whatever the fuck Moto put on it. Which would run perfectly fine on my 1st gen Droid. The iPod Touch IS NOT an iPhone, so a more fair comparson would be a 3rd gen touch Vs a 4th Gen touch and a 1st gen Droid vs a 2nd gen Droid.


Which of the 2 is significantly improved? People are whining because they expected something that Apple never even said. Steve Jobs didn't come out with a press release saying the 4th gen iPod Touch would be an iPhone 4G without the cell/3g chip. So basically people are outraged because they made an assumption that turned out to be incorrect. Yet in the end, the new iPod Touch is worlds better than the previous model.

 

[Bateluer]

I think it's more than fair to bring up. I played with her Droid TWO and outside of the keyboard it was no different than my Droid 1 . . .

Never mind the faster CPU, larger ROM, and increased RAM. Just because the changes are under the hood, doesn't mean they aren't changes. If the D2 had an open boot loader, it'd be a fantastic device, one of the few cases where flaws where corrected in a product while keeping the originals strengths from one generation to the next. Moto fvcked it up though and gimped the phone. Pretty sure Verizon had their grubby fingers in t hat mess too.

 

[Tom]

These Touch threads are very entertaining.

I see the Touch as a very pocketable ipad for half price. I don't need it, my TP2 can do most of the same things, but for $229 why not swim in Apple infested waters ?

It's so thin it will be easy to carry along with a smartphone, doubling my capabilites and something to let the grandkids play with besides my phone.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Never mind the faster CPU, larger ROM, and increased RAM. Just because the changes are under the hood, doesn't mean they aren't changes. If the D2 had an open boot loader, it'd be a fantastic device, one of the few cases where flaws where corrected in a product while keeping the originals strengths from one generation to the next. Moto fvcked it up though and gimped the phone. Pretty sure Verizon had their grubby fingers in t hat mess too.

Realize that after the D1, every device that Moto released was locked down. The Milestone was the best example. I was pretty sure the DX and D2 would get it and that seemed to be the right assumption