Anyone ever use a Thunderbird M90 Remote Supercharger?

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
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Well after doing a lot of research on possibilities on the best thing to waste my money on, I figured trying to throw a supercharger on my little V6 may be possible.

Now, I know that there was only one"specific" supercharger built for my engine by an aftermarket company but they were closed down.


I then seen some forums for other cars point to the M90 on the Thunderbirds were a remote supercharger that essentially was mounted away from the engine.

Looking at that, it may seem like it is possible to mount it where my AC Condensor would be located at and then I would just run some piping to my intake.


Now, I do understand that the boost pressure from this would be no where near a true supercharger built specifically for my engine, but would probably be good for 5-7psi, correct?


Anyone ever fiddle with one of these before on a non thunderbird car?




Also to those of you who think I am wasting money on my little camaro, please understand that I realize that but it is somewhat of a hobby of mine and I am pround of the car I have now.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
I searched google for 3.4l v6 superchargers and found at least one forum that says an M90 s/c won't fit the 3.4.

This site might be able to help, they seem to focus on the GM V6's http://60degreev6.com/forum/f136

Edit: why not just throw in an L*1 V8 instead? Seems like a lot of work to get power out of a V6 when a V8 will bolt right in and performance parts for them are a dime a dozen.
 

RGUN

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2005
1,007
3
76
Well after doing a lot of research on possibilities on the best thing to waste my money on, I figured trying to throw a supercharger on my little V6 may be possible.

Now, I know that there was only one"specific" supercharger built for my engine by an aftermarket company but they were closed down.


I then seen some forums for other cars point to the M90 on the Thunderbirds were a remote supercharger that essentially was mounted away from the engine.

Looking at that, it may seem like it is possible to mount it where my AC Condensor would be located at and then I would just run some piping to my intake.


Now, I do understand that the boost pressure from this would be no where near a true supercharger built specifically for my engine, but would probably be good for 5-7psi, correct?


Anyone ever fiddle with one of these before on a non thunderbird car?

Im sure it is possible to run some form of supercharger, but I think even 7 psi is probably too much for your motor. I dont know what the compression ratio is but I would not want to push 7psi into a motor that wasnt designed for boost.

Also, I would imagine that your cheapest entry to the boosted arena is via turbocharging. No worrying about belts, no worrying about replacing your condensor. Just put it in line with your exhaust and pipe it in.
 

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
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I searched google for 3.4l v6 superchargers and found at least one forum that says an M90 s/c won't fit the 3.4.

This site might be able to help, they seem to focus on the GM V6's http://60degreev6.com/forum/f136

Edit: why not just throw in an L*1 V8 instead? Seems like a lot of work to get power out of a V6 when a V8 will bolt right in and performance parts for them are a dime a dozen.


Ya, I am actually a member there and have been getting quite a few ideas.

The LT1 would be the only V8 that would reasonably be able to fit in there but I would need a whole slew of things including motor mounts, ECM, Wiring Harness, and a few more things.


I am just stating if I could just bolt the supercharger in and run some piping, it seems like it could be accomplished within a weekend.




On the turbo idea, there are quite a few turbo 3.4s out there which means it is 100% possible. The thing is I want something different, something I can say "I am one of the very few who have a supercharged 3.4" lol.

This engine has 145K on it already and I will be buying a totally new "refurbished" engine within the next 6 months to replace it. As long as my engine holds for that long, it should be fine with 5-7pis.




Im sorry if I am sounding like a moron which I do believe I am, but just seeing what you guys think would hold me back in this idea.
 

EightySix Four

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2004
5,122
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Ya, I am actually a member there and have been getting quite a few ideas.

The LT1 would be the only V8 that would reasonably be able to fit in there but I would need a whole slew of things including motor mounts, ECM, Wiring Harness, and a few more things.


I am just stating if I could just bolt the supercharger in and run some piping, it seems like it could be accomplished within a weekend.




On the turbo idea, there are quite a few turbo 3.4s out there which means it is 100% possible. The thing is I want something different, something I can say "I am one of the very few who have a supercharged 3.4" lol.

This engine has 145K on it already and I will be buying a totally new "refurbished" engine within the next 6 months to replace it. As long as my engine holds for that long, it should be fine with 5-7pis.




Im sorry if I am sounding like a moron which I do believe I am, but just seeing what you guys think would hold me back in this idea.

Don't forget fuel system etc.
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
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Well, you have to think about the logistics of remote mounting a forced induction setup.

A supercharger works by essentially sitting on top of or replacing your intake manifold. Numerous bolts attach the supercharger to the top of the engine, with gasket(s) ensuring a seal against the vacuum.

You would need to mount the supercharger (which is not a small object), fab up tubing (similar to intercooler tubing) that runs to the intake, and tubing to the throttle body. Superchargers produce a lot of heat and with all the tubing, the air would heat up quite a bit before it finally got to the intake manifold. You could add an intercooler or spray (meth, water, alky, etc) cooling, but of course that is another step and cost.

Using the stock intake manifold would limit your results even more, regardless of how much boost you're running. It isn't optimized for forced induction, much less the higher levels of air flow you're trying to run. Also, the manifolds and head design on those motors are optimized for low & mid range torque, not high end horsepower, further choking your power potential.

You would quickly push the limits of the stock fueling system as well, or be running against the top of its capacity. That means one failure in the fuel system would quickly starve your motor of fuel and start detonating. If you're lucky, minor damage and lesson learned. If you're unlucky, you'll need to rebuild or drop in a new motor.

And I have no idea how much boost the internals of the 3400 can take, but I can't imagine it will be much. Maybe you would play it safe and setup some type of wastegate to keep it at 3 or 4 psi, but after a while of that you might get bored and try 5psi. Then 7psi. Then...BOOM.

I don't mean to entirely discourage you, just pointing out your challenges. If you could do this, it would be neat. Not practical or efficient, but neat. But as mentioned in the talk about cooling and fueling, boost is EXPENSIVE. Sure an SC pulled off a junker and some tubing isn't expensive. But then you have to cool the IAT's, get more fuel into the manifold, and the price tag climbs. Let's not forget about the drivetrain too; how much torque can that old 4-speed auto take?

A remote mounted turbo would be more practical in terms of packaging - turbo's are very small compared to superchargers. Plus a lot of research and design will have already been done. But an IC and fuel system upgrades are more than likely a must. And your power gains will be minimal, and you WILL see turbo lag given the relatively small displacement of the motor compounded by whatever distance there is from the intake to the turbo and back.
A lot of people do remote mounted (in the back of the car, under the rear bumper essentially) turbo's on Vette's and GTO's (other cars too, I'm sure). But they have double the displacement pushing out of the exhaust into the turbo to spin it up. You would use a smaller turbo clearly, but thus your gains are smaller.

Here's a couple alternate thoughts for you:

*LT1 swap - yes, it requires a lot of work. Any of these options do. But LT1's should be dirt cheap these days, the hard research is already done, you just have to put the TLC in.

*LS1 swap - this is possible with even more gains to be realized, but requires more work and a LOT more cost. LSx motors are expensive and so are the parts to convert it. I heavily researched swapped an LSx into a 3rd gen Fbody, so I'm familiar with it.
An alternative here is to find a 5.3L truck motor, or the 5.3L from the Impala SS/Grand Prix GXP. These are much cheaper to find than the aluminum block LS1/LS2/LS3 motors and have similar power potential, mostly limited by the heads/intake.

*3800 SC swap - These motors should be plentiful and cheap, along with the transmissions, from the many Pontiac's & Buick's of the late 90's. The biggest concern I can think of is it fitting in the low engine bay. Again, SC's are a packaging concern.

*Treat this car like a queen, save your pennies and in a few years find an LS1 F-body. Put on an exhaust, sways bars and good tires to enjoy your ride in the meantime.
 

BlackTigers

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2006
4,491
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I'm not sure you realize how much work putting a supercharger on is.

For the V8, motormounts are cheap. And easy. ECM is easy. Wiring harness, is easy without motor in. Not to mention there's a shit ton of L*1 parts....everywhere.

It mightr be cheaper and easier :p
 

BlackTigers

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2006
4,491
2
71
I'm not sure you realize how much work putting a supercharger on is.

For the V8, motormounts are cheap. And easy. ECM is easy. Wiring harness, is easy without motor in. Not to mention there's a shit ton of L*1 parts....everywhere.

It mightr be cheaper and easier :p
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
I'm not sure you realize how much work putting a supercharger on is.

For the V8, motormounts are cheap. And easy. ECM is easy. Wiring harness, is easy without motor in. Not to mention there's a shit ton of L*1 parts....everywhere.

It mightr be cheaper and easier :p

That's what I was getting at. LT1 swap is cheap, extremely easy, (since all you need to do is bolt everything in, the car was designed for V8's), and you can get LT1 parts literally everywhere. Hell, I bet a Super Walmart has LT1 performance parts. :p
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
That's what I was getting at. LT1 swap is cheap, extremely easy, (since all you need to do is bolt everything in, the car was designed for V8's), and you can get LT1 parts literally everywhere. Hell, I bet a Super Walmart has LT1 performance parts. :p

I searched for LT1 on Walmart and got this:
MP10000756586_P255045_215X215.jpg


...so apparently LT1 upgrades are so plentiful you can get everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink!

But if you look into the costs associated with doing a supercharger/turbo project, a V8 swap is on par and allows you to later also do a supercharger/turbo project for the same and often LESS cost of the V6 project. If you're set on a V6+supercharger you might look into the route of getting a 3.8 from a later year and swiping a blower off a Regal or Grand Prix. Note that there are differences in the RWD and FWD 3800's that keep them from being direct swaps.
 

kornphlake

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2003
1,567
9
81
oh wait, you have a 3.4L? Nevermind then. Just drive it as is and save your money for a better project.
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,332
249
106
I searched for LT1 on Walmart and got this:
MP10000756586_P255045_215X215.jpg


...so apparently LT1 upgrades are so plentiful you can get everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink!

But if you look into the costs associated with doing a supercharger/turbo project, a V8 swap is on par and allows you to later also do a supercharger/turbo project for the same and often LESS cost of the V6 project. If you're set on a V6+supercharger you might look into the route of getting a 3.8 from a later year and swiping a blower off a Regal or Grand Prix. Note that there are differences in the RWD and FWD 3800's that keep them from being direct swaps.

lollll
 

DeliciousTacos

Senior member
Jul 9, 2007
233
0
0
I wouldn't do too much with that V6. If you wanted to get a LT1, find a totaled Camaro with that engine and swap everything into your car. Or buy a LT1 car outright and forget about swapping it into your V6. If you really want to keep your V6 swap in a 5.3 truck motor into it. Or even a LS1. The 3.4L was probably the worst engine in terms of reliability and power they ever put into the 4th gen camaros. Whatever you choose, I wish you luck, the 4th gen Camaros are great cars. Treat her well. ;)
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
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The M90 fits all kinds of shit with the correct manifold. I've seen them on damn near everything.
 

fbrdphreak

Lifer
Apr 17, 2004
17,555
1
0
The 3.4L was probably the worst engine in terms of reliability and power they ever put into the 4th gen camaros.
That's funny, because while it was down on HP (as all GM V6's were in that day), it was plenty reliable and made a very good amount of torque. In fact, a variation of it is still used today in the Chevy Equinox (at least was as of the 09 MY).
 

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
2,153
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0
Well, I picked up a supercharger today but it wasnt the Ford M90.

I got a dirt cheap GM M90 off of a GTP from my brothers friend for $50. He included the Supercharger, the custom Intake Manifold, and fuel rails.

The only problem is he had it on a 3.8L Firebird, and I was aware that the engines are totally different, but I also figured I could resell it for at least double of what I paid for it if I couldnt make it work.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
3800 Series II V6 or LS1 V8 or go home IMO.

Some engines you will spend twice the money and only get 1/3 of the performance.