Anyone else think Obama is kicking himself?

[GTaudiophile]

If only he had selected Hillary as his Veep...there would be no Palin...and he would be WAY ahead in polls.

Poll Data

Any chance Biden might recuse himself for "personal" reasons, opening the door for Hillary?

I just had lunch with a reporter who works for a foreign news agency here in DC. He covered both conventions. While he disagrees with Palin's politics, he believes her selection as VP nominee was a stroke of genius by McCain. She has since overshadowed and totally sucked the wind out of Obama/Biden's sails. Heck, she even overshadows McCain. This same reporter is convinced McCain will win on November 4, and if he does, he's personally packing his bags to move back to Germany after living in the USA for ten years.

Obama has the debates to redeem himself. He needs to be firm, more aggressive, and most importantly, very clear and concise about what he means by "change". In fact, he should take the remaining two months, pull a page out of Gingrich's play book, and propose a "Change America Contract" specifically listing ten or so examples of legislation he will propose in the first 100 days of Congress.

 

[nageov3t]

you can't really recover from losing a VP once chosen in the middle of the election.

he might, but we don't know the story. for all we know, Hillary turned him down back at their secret meeting after the primaries and that's why she was never even vetted.

 

[Xavier434]

I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

 

[Genx87]

While Biden was a dad and a bad pick. I dont think Clinton would honestly bring anything to the table that would help Obama. Hillary is very polarizing with bad negatives. It may have shored up the hillary vote. But it could have turned off moderates, republicans voting in digust at McCain, or independents.

What option did Obama have? I dont know honestly, maybe somebody not associated with the DC establishment? Hell he could have gone the other way and got somebody as young as him and ran on a platform of change by voting in a young progressive well educated mind? His safe pick is uninspiring and goes against his platforms slogan.

As for Palin, look, brilliant pick and it is working for now. But we need to get out a few weeks and let all the BS being spewed at her die down. This is going to be one very close election.

/shrug

 

[Red Dawn]

I don't think it was that bad. Palin was just the gimmick McCain needed to get back in it. Let's see if this gimmick has staying power. If it does then it will be a tough fight for both sides.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

Wow...im glad I wasnt drinking anything when I read that.

Put down the kool-aid!

 

[Dari]

Your logic is odd. If Obama had selected Clinton, McCain would've selected a white male and Obama would've been called a hypocrite.

 

[StageLeft]

GT you are always looking for an excuse to go to Germany, maybe you had lunch with yourself? 🙂

Just kidding!

The debates will be meaningful. Unfortunately for obama, despite him inevitably winning them, it won't be a sweep. McCain, old as he is, cannot possibly, possibly be as fvcking awful in them as Bush.

Palin certainly seems to have helped, some how. 10 days ago she started to look like poison and now mccain numbers through the roof. Still, I think Clinton would have hurt Obama's ticket because of how many hate her.

I think if Obama jumped onto a couple of hardcore key topics like, for example, pickensplan.com, he could really demagogue the people into following him, and demagogues clearly still are king.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

Wow...im glad I wasnt drinking anything when I read that.

Put down the kool-aid!

....

are you saying that he picked someone as exciting as biden because he would rally a demographic for him? Obama got a biden bump?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Genx87
As for Palin, look, brilliant pick and it is working for now.
/shrug

Not really directed at the poster but why is it all the politicians and pundits and spinsters say "look". It bothers me whenever I hear it. sheepels and they all do it.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

Wow...im glad I wasnt drinking anything when I read that.

Put down the kool-aid!

....

are you saying that he picked someone as exciting as biden because he would rally a demographic for him? Obama got a biden bump?

This.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Genx87

What option did Obama have? I dont know honestly, maybe somebody not associated with the DC establishment? Hell he could have gone the other way and got somebody as young as him and ran on a platform of change by voting in a young progressive well educated mind? His safe pick is uninspiring and goes against his platforms slogan.

He should have gone with Clark. Choosing him would not dismantle his entire campaign message like it did with Biden. He would also have been much more marketable than Biden. Perhaps not as marketable as Palin but it would have shook things up by dismantling the belief of McCain's superiority in security matters.

 

[MiniDoom]

I think Bill Richardson would've been a great choice for Obama. I would have like to see him pick someone more moderate than Biden.

 

[OrByte]

already with the second guessing?

All this means is that the same people that were waiting for the debates to make up their minds are STILL WAITING.

Palin changed the national dialogue to fit more in line with how the Republicans are used to campaigning....ie the Culture Wars.

Palin also fired up the base that was threatening to sit on their hands.

But that is all Palin does. If she is taking indy voters over to McCain's side I doubt the number is significant, she doesnt have moderate appeal, and she wasnt chosen for the ticket because of her moderate appeal. And we can all agree that when it comes to indy's and moderates, both McCain and Obama will share the vote. The trick is...who gets the Lion's share.

But the specter of GWB is still out there, and McCain STILL needs to wiggle his way out from under that shadow.

After the Palin hype is gone...and once some of these news stories about her start gaining staying power (not all the stories mind you...some of the stories are just bunk), then the race really heats up.

And then you have all of those voters still waiting for the debates...

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

Wow...im glad I wasnt drinking anything when I read that.

Put down the kool-aid!

....

are you saying that he picked someone as exciting as biden because he would rally a demographic for him? Obama got a biden bump?

VP picks are generally not exciting. They are generally chosen to fill a void or percieved void in the nominee's background. For example, a New England candidate picking a southerner to shore up some votes in the south.

Obama's weakness, real or percieved, is experience and Foriegn Policy. So along comes Biden. If I have to explain the rest to you, or you dont think that the pick was to shore up votes, I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

Wow...im glad I wasnt drinking anything when I read that.

Put down the kool-aid!

....

are you saying that he picked someone as exciting as biden because he would rally a demographic for him? Obama got a biden bump?

VP picks are generally not exciting. They are generally chosen to fill a void or percieved void in the nominee's background. For example, a New England candidate picking a southerner to shore up some votes in the south.

Obama's weakness, real or percieved, is experience and Foriegn Policy. So along comes Biden. If I have to explain the rest to you, or you dont think that the pick was to shore up votes, I dont know what to tell you.

That doesn't mean he picked him to buy votes though. One could argue just as easily that he picked him because he recognizes his own weaknesses and understands that working as a team with a VP who can "fill a void" as you put it is a smart and responsible decision to make as the Pres.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I don't think it was that bad. Palin was just the gimmick McCain needed to get back in it. Let's see if this gimmick has staying power. If it does then it will be a tough fight for both sides.

That's the only thing I can see with this. Palin isn't a game changing pick, because she's not a game changing politician. She's caught some interest because she's a woman on a national ticket, but that is the ONLY reason she's drawn any interest. The more people think about it, the less impressed with the choice I think they'll be. The religious right might like her, but if she draws anyone else in on election day, I'd be very surprised.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I don't think it was that bad. Palin was just the gimmick McCain needed to get back in it. Let's see if this gimmick has staying power. If it does then it will be a tough fight for both sides.

That's the only thing I can see with this. Palin isn't a game changing pick, because she's not a game changing politician. She's caught some interest because she's a woman on a national ticket, but that is the ONLY reason she's drawn any interest. The more people think about it, the less impressed with the choice I think they'll be. The religious right might like her, but if she draws anyone else in on election day, I'd be very surprised.

That's what I said the day she was picked.

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I don't think it was that bad. Palin was just the gimmick McCain needed to get back in it. Let's see if this gimmick has staying power. If it does then it will be a tough fight for both sides.

That's the only thing I can see with this. Palin isn't a game changing pick, because she's not a game changing politician. She's caught some interest because she's a woman on a national ticket, but that is the ONLY reason she's drawn any interest. The more people think about it, the less impressed with the choice I think they'll be. The religious right might like her, but if she draws anyone else in on election day, I'd be very surprised.

She also may energize the dems. Same way hillary energized repubs 🙂

ANyway, A Biden-Obama admin is a wonderful segue out of the Bush years. Let's leave the past behind entirely

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't believe that Obama chose Biden to buy votes. If that was his top priority like McCain then he would have chosen Hillary. That's a good thing.

Wow...im glad I wasnt drinking anything when I read that.

Put down the kool-aid!

....

are you saying that he picked someone as exciting as biden because he would rally a demographic for him? Obama got a biden bump?

VP picks are generally not exciting. They are generally chosen to fill a void or percieved void in the nominee's background. For example, a New England candidate picking a southerner to shore up some votes in the south.

Obama's weakness, real or percieved, is experience and Foriegn Policy. So along comes Biden. If I have to explain the rest to you, or you dont think that the pick was to shore up votes, I dont know what to tell you.

That doesn't mean he picked him to buy votes though. One could argue just as easily that he picked him because he recognizes his own weaknesses and understands that working as a team with a VP who can "fill a void" as you put it is a smart and responsible decision to make as the Pres.

Or, a sane person would realize he is a politician, and the business is winning. I actually dont mind the guy, i'm starting to worry about his supporters...

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I don't think it was that bad. Palin was just the gimmick McCain needed to get back in it. Let's see if this gimmick has staying power. If it does then it will be a tough fight for both sides.

That's the only thing I can see with this. Palin isn't a game changing pick, because she's not a game changing politician. She's caught some interest because she's a woman on a national ticket, but that is the ONLY reason she's drawn any interest. The more people think about it, the less impressed with the choice I think they'll be. The religious right might like her, but if she draws anyone else in on election day, I'd be very surprised.

That's what I said the day she was picked.

And until she does more than regurgitate her acceptance speech talking points over and over again, no one will know.

I'm with you .... if she was such a great "game changer" the RNC would be falling all over themselves to get her on every interview show they could to capitalize on all the hype. The game they're playing, however, is to stretch out the hype as long as possible before people see what's really behind the curtain. I'm guessing that they're hoping by the time it finally does happen, opinions of her will be set in stone.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Xavier434
That doesn't mean he picked him to buy votes though. One could argue just as easily that he picked him because he recognizes his own weaknesses and understands that working as a team with a VP who can "fill a void" as you put it is a smart and responsible decision to make as the Pres.

Or, a sane person would realize he is a politician, and the business is winning. I actually dont mind they guy, i'm starting to worry about his supporters...

I recognize that as well, but the point is the order of his priorities. Obama picked Biden because his first priority was to have a quality team mate when he wins in November. I am sure somewhere down the line votes were a priority too since he is a politician like you said. This is unlike McCain whose first priority was to buy votes.

You mentioned fear about his supporters? What about my fear that McCain supporters cannot get over the possibility that Obama supporters actually realize that Obama is another politician? He is a politician who is better than any of the others on the list to choose from right now and he is most certainly a hell of a lot better than Bush. You don't have to buy into everything Obama is trying to sell in order to reach that conclusion.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
If only he had selected Hillary as his Veep...there would be no Palin...and he would be WAY ahead in polls.

Poll Data

Any chance Biden might recuse himself for "personal" reasons, opening the door for Hillary?

I just had lunch with a reporter who works for a foreign news agency here in DC. He covered both conventions. While he disagrees with Palin's politics, he believes her selection as VP nominee was a stroke of genius by McCain. She has since overshadowed and totally sucked the wind out of Obama/Biden's sails. Heck, she even overshadows McCain. This same reporter is convinced McCain will win on November 4, and if he does, he's personally packing his bags to move back to Germany after living in the USA for ten years.

Obama has the debates to redeem himself. He needs to be firm, more aggressive, and most importantly, very clear and concise about what he means by "change". In fact, he should take the remaining two months, pull a page out of Gingrich's play book, and propose a "Change America Contract" specifically listing ten or so examples of legislation he will propose in the first 100 days of Congress.

No, I don't. I think Obama made a responsible and good pick. He could have nominated someone outrageous like McCain and gotten press, but it's a mistake.

Even if McCain were to win because of Palin, it's a mistake - for the country. He'd have put a dangerous person in line to be president, and that's wrong of him (and voters).

 

[rockyct]

Clinton dug her own grave in terms of Obama selecting her as VP. She couldn't control Bill and she made some solid attacks on Obama that would haunt Obama if she chose him. Clinton could have been the VP had she not gotten desperate after Super Tues.

Obama choosing Biden was a smart pick. Webb would have been better, but it seemed like Webb truely didn't want to be VP. Biden does help with working class voters in the mid west and he has considerable foreign policy experience. It wasn't a choose that would be an obvious pander to the working class like Kaine or Bayh would have. Bill Richardson woud have been an excelent choose except that it would have hurt Obama in the Mid-West.

McCain selecting Palin was a brilliant choice to fire his base up no doubt, but I don't think she appeals to independents.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Hillary would never opt to be Obama's VP, especially now. Palin could very well give Hillary one last shot at the whitehouse on 2012, by upsetting Obama. That would of course not be possible if she was a sitting VP.