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Anyone else sitting this round out?

RadiclDreamer

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2004
8,598
34
91
I've been a long time gamer and hobby builder who has always loved to have the latest or at least close to the latest gear as possible.

The last few years have been very disappointing to me though. The prices have climbed faster than I can ever remember them doing in the past and the performance gains have all but stopped. It used to be a $300-$500 card would net you around a 50% performance bump at least. Now its $1200 and the gains are far lower.

Is it lack of competition? Or are we just finally starting to hit the same walls that CPUs hit a few years back?

Ray tracing is a cool concept, but to me it seems to be too little and too costly to get any real traction. Kind of like when PhysX first started making add in cards. It was a really great feature and in my opinion criminally underutilized but it was so expensive for a single visual effect.
 

Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
1,731
286
126
My current card plays games fine, and I expect it will continue to do so for a while yet so really I have no reason to upgrade. Ray tracing will be the most likely reason I'll want a new card after it properly takes off, but that's not going to happen till well into next year imo, perhaps even later. I'm expecting to buy a 3070 or AMD equivalent.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,243
1,518
136
Im in the middle of building a computer. I have a MoBo, PSU and Case, and I am only waiting for RX 5600 XT to be released.

So pretty much no, Im not "waiting it out" ;)
 

mohit9206

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2013
1,140
305
136
I've been a long time gamer and hobby builder who has always loved to have the latest or at least close to the latest gear as possible.

The last few years have been very disappointing to me though. The prices have climbed faster than I can ever remember them doing in the past and the performance gains have all but stopped. It used to be a $300-$500 card would net you around a 50% performance bump at least. Now its $1200 and the gains are far lower.

Is it lack of competition? Or are we just finally starting to hit the same walls that CPUs hit a few years back?
Its due to lack of competition and people not voting with their wallets.

Im in the middle of building a computer. I have a MoBo, PSU and Case, and I am only waiting for RX 5600 XT to be released.

So pretty much no, Im not "waiting it out" ;)
5600XT might be around $250, i would suggest to get a Vega 56 while they are still going for cheap. But i dont blame you for waiting for 5600XT to see if its any good.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
5,551
745
126
This topic has been beaten to death. Yes, the prices have risen through the roof, yes, the performance gains have slowed down. I'm a midrange gamer, I passed on Vega because it was hot and expensive (largely thanks to mining boom), I may pass on 5700 too. Current midrange Navi included is still too expensive for what it offers and I want to see if ray tracing is here to stay in which case Navi is a dead end card.
 

mohit9206

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2013
1,140
305
136
IMO, basic RX 5700 XT with 4 GB of GDDR6 may be 199$. 250$ will cost 8 GB version of this GPU.
Why would anyone buy a 4gb card for 200 when they could easily get an 8gb card for less. 4gb needs to be reserved for sub 150 cards only.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,243
1,518
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Why would anyone buy a 4gb card for 200 when they could easily get an 8gb card for less. 4gb needs to be reserved for sub 150 cards only.
Can they get GTX 1660 Ti performance for 200$?
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,318
337
126
I am planning on getting an RX 5700 once aftermarket cards come out.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,243
1,518
136
There won't be a 4GB 5700/5700XT.

There will most likely be a 4GB 5600 though.
Currently we have seen full die Engineering samples working with 4 GB's of VRAM. So yes, we actually will see full dies, with 4 GB's of VRAM.

RX 5600 is reserved for cut down version with 1408 ALUs.

Edit: S***, Now I see my post. Why would I post about RX 5700 XT, when I wanted to write about RX 5600 XT...
 
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Guru

Senior member
May 5, 2017
681
250
106
GTX 1060 6GB was an absolute beast and an amazing value card. It literally beat the $350 GTX 970 and within several months it was basically trading blows with the GTX 980 and beating it in vram demanding games. So essentially for $250, realistically $280 for AIB models you got to have almost the same performance as a $500 GTX 980.

Currently GTX 1660 is barely 10% faster than a GTX 1060 6GB and $280 dollars, the GTX 1660ti is an even more pathetic card, sitting at $310 for essentially 25% faster performance over the GTX 1060 6GB. So basically both the "mid range" cards are utter crap and not worth it at all. The RTX 2060 is better value and essentially the only turing card at the time that didn't suck completely, but now its pretty much obsolete with AMD's RX 5700.

Point i'm making is that there is zero value in mid range cards and until AMD releases the RX 5600 and 5600XT, we are going to see the utter garbage 1660 and 1660ti be massively overpriced.

But I'm skipping this generation regardless, I have a GTX 1060 6GB right now and I'm able to play most game at max setting and 1050p resolution. Rarely have I played a game that required me to lower setting one level below max in order to maintain 60fps. The only that has done that is AC:Odyssey and even then the minimum I've reached is 40fps, with 52-3 being the average in general.

But I'll be saving up for a new system with Ryzen 3600, B550 motherboard and DDR4 ram. That is my priority for the end of the year, with a new graphic card upgrade next year!
 
Mar 11, 2004
19,214
1,750
126
I will be, and I might end up sitting it out for awhile depending on where things go from here (wanting to see what ray-tracing shapes up as, and with GPU prices, I'll wait til they improve or ray-tracing is really worth it so I can stick with the card I get for awhile). But I don't game enough to care all that much, and I'll probably go with a console to handle much of that (with the PS5 and next Xbox on the way). I'm planning on getting a Switch Lite which will work well with my more casual playing these days. Depending on what we see from AMD as far as APUs go, or if maybe Microsoft lets people run normal Windows 10 on the next Xbox (or perhaps Sony lets some Linux distro run on the PS5), that'd likely be enough of an upgrade for most of my computer use. That's why I've been arguing for AMD to make a high end console, as it'd be perfect for my use (general computing, some 3D modeling, some video editing/processing, quite a bit of media playback, and then some gaming).

Another thing leaving me waiting is the current situation with video protocols (both the physical connectors and the codecs). Sounds like the new processing block in Navi is pretty good, but Navi doesn't have HDMI 2.1 or DP 2, so I'll be bypassing it for consideration for that (unless the lower models add support for them). And sounds like HEVC/h265 is going to be replaced by AV1 fairly quickly, so I'd kinda like some manner of support for it. I'd also like to see if we get that USB-C single connector for VR stuff.

Even though I've been quite critical of them (for business practices, prices) and am not high on RTX (or ray tracing in general so far), I'm strongly considering an Nvidia card next time as they've generally had better support for their video processing block (and its tended to outpace AMD's), along with the extra performance, especially in VR which will be a big factor in my next video card purchase (its also why I'm holding out, these recent VR headsets seem to be a bit of a stepback in some ways; and its why I might be holding out for some time as Sony bringing out a new PSVR headset with improved tracking and resolution could mean I go with a PS5 and PSVR and wait for the PC space to get to like 4K VR performance - I really want high resolution as I plan on trying to use it for more than gaming like 3d modeling and art stuff).
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,257
637
126
The prices have climbed faster than I can ever remember them doing in the past and the performance gains have all but stopped
Yeah, the real problem is performance/$ has stagnated. If you spend $300 dollars on a card then it doesn't help you that you could get higher performance for $800 and for your $300 you get 10% more performance, if lucky. makes upgrades nonsensical. NV really felt that with the RTX launch and AMD will too and the reduced RTX prices won't help much either with sales. Everything is still overpriced and we can see it in NVs rising margins. It's just a huge rip-off from both parties and essential looks like a "silent" cartel. AMD doesn't seem to want more marketshare. I suspect they are using up most 7nm for Zen2 chiplets. So if supply lacks makes sense such to price navi high.

It's sad but the only very low hope is intel next year. But given their 10nm woes I'm skeptical they can be cheap unless they take the loss to gain marketshare.

EDIT:

hence sitting out makes sense. Wait for intel and if that doesn't hold try wait for NVs 7nm release and deal with the insane pricing. After move to 7nm, it will be years till anything meaningfully better will come out.
 
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guachi

Senior member
Nov 16, 2010
683
333
136
I'm waiting on AIB 5700XT cards. I'm also waiting on selling my rental house so I don't go broke paying for an empty house. So I don't really have a choice on the waiting for an AIB 5700XT.

The 1660 Ti has performance/$ that's a little lower than a 5700 and about equal to the 5700XT and the latter two are faster so if you can spare $70 for the 5700 it's a good deal.

The 2060 is made obsolete by the 5700 that costs the same and is faster.

The 2060 Super is made obsolete by the 5700XT that costs the same and is faster.

The 5700 and 5700XT have about the same performance/$ (the 5700 is a little better) so if you game at 1440 and can spend the extra $50 you should get that.

The 2070 Super is 25% more than the 5700 XT and is only 7-10% faster in 4k. It's only 3-4% faster in 1440. If you game in 1440 the 5700 XT is better. If you game in 4k the extra 7-10% might be useful.

The 2080 Super and 2080 Ti are just really overpriced for what you get.

So... that leaves the 5700 if you can't afford the 5700XT and you want good 1440 gaming and excellent 1080 gaming.

The 5700XT as a great all around value no matter what resolution you game at. That's why it's the card I'm waiting for.

The 2070 Super if you game at 4k and absolutely need the extra FPS.
 

GodisanAtheist

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2006
1,637
299
126
Eh this round only solidifies my position on "past-proofing" my computer: I'll wait until the next cycle drives discounts on the current gen, then pick up something that will retroactively drive solid performance on the 2017-2020 games.

My 980ti currently is extremely capable for games of the 2013-2016 vintage and will likely do ok for games past that point. I do like running older games with high is settings and SSAA though, so I'll have to step up as my backlog catches up to the current year.
 

mohit9206

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2013
1,140
305
136
I'm waiting on AIB 5700XT cards. I'm also waiting on selling my rental house so I don't go broke paying for an empty house. So I don't really have a choice on the waiting for an AIB 5700XT.

The 1660 Ti has performance/$ that's a little lower than a 5700 and about equal to the 5700XT and the latter two are faster so if you can spare $70 for the 5700 it's a good deal.

The 2060 is made obsolete by the 5700 that costs the same and is faster.

The 2060 Super is made obsolete by the 5700XT that costs the same and is faster.

The 5700 and 5700XT have about the same performance/$ (the 5700 is a little better) so if you game at 1440 and can spend the extra $50 you should get that.

The 2070 Super is 25% more than the 5700 XT and is only 7-10% faster in 4k. It's only 3-4% faster in 1440. If you game in 1440 the 5700 XT is better. If you game in 4k the extra 7-10% might be useful.

The 2080 Super and 2080 Ti are just really overpriced for what you get.

So... that leaves the 5700 if you can't afford the 5700XT and you want good 1440 gaming and excellent 1080 gaming.

The 5700XT as a great all around value no matter what resolution you game at. That's why it's the card I'm waiting for.

The 2070 Super if you game at 4k and absolutely need the extra FPS.
The AIB models of 5700XT will be in the $430-450 range which reduces its value compared to the 2070S founder's at 500. Both cards are still good buys at their respective price points but AMD should ensure there's atleast some AIB non blower models at $400.
 

arandomguy

Senior member
Sep 3, 2013
483
120
116
It's easier (if not easy) to sit out this generation if you bought into the previous generation before the mining price spike (and to some extent memory price hike) hit it. It's tougher for those on even older cards who have already sat out the previous generation due to the timing of the mining price spike.

We're probably going to be closer to a year out (not counting the typical sales during end of year to fight for holiday shoppers) for the next significant price push down when Nvidia does their next release. So for some that could mean they would have needed to push back their upgrade for 3+ years by then.

If I had predict depending on timing the next product cycle will offer much more for consumers. If we look at the last two console releases the post console release cycle has been significant. Initial launch is when consoles offer the highest hardware spec draw to gamers. If the PC gaming market (specifically GPU makers) do not offer compelling alternatives they will bleed much more potential customers to the alternative option consoles.

If say the $500 console GPU is between a 5700 and 5700xt in performance with extra features and also benefits from more optimizations on the software side how attractive is a 5700xt by itself for $400?
 
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gk1951

Member
Jul 7, 2019
43
20
41
Perhaps the launch cycle of new products has been so frequent that the gains between them seem marginal.

Perhaps the strategy should be to hold on to your gpu longer before upgrading.

Though not a perfect analogy look at the auto industry. At my age (68) I remember as a youngster people traded in for a new car every 3-4 years because the price of cars was 2 to 4 thousand dollars. Now?

Good lord a mid size SUV is @$40, 000 so you keep your car 5 to 10 years (probably closer to 10 than 5).

GPUs on the high end are now like new cars.
 
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RadiclDreamer

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2004
8,598
34
91
Perhaps the launch cycle of new products has been so frequent that the gains between them seem marginal.

Perhaps the strategy should be to hold on to your gpu longer before upgrading.

Though not a perfect analogy look at the auto industry. At my age (68) I remember as a youngster people traded in for a new car every 3-4 years because the price of cars was 2 to 4 thousand dollars. Now?

Good lord a mid size SUV is @$40, 000 so you keep your car 5 to 10 years (probably closer to 10 than 5).

GPUs on the high end are now like new cars.

It seems to be going this way for many things now days. I can remember buying a high end IPhone for $200 subsidized and then later for $600 full price. Now its 1200+ for a flagship. Its personally driving me out of caring for tech. I have a great job and make a very good living well above average for my area, but I refuse to buy things when they are priced like this. It just gives companies confirmation that they CAN charge that much or even try for more. At least in the case of appple, Im hoping their major drop in sales will cause them to reconsider their pricing strategy since the fewer apple phones out there means less app store purchases and less apple music subs. Long term I think these huge price bumps are a bad idea for companies and consumers alike, it just isn't sustainable.

Im hopeful but not optimistic that intel coming into the discrete GPU market will shake things up a bit.
 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,498
675
126
I went with the XFX RX 5700 thanks to Microcenters $299.99 price when I bundled it with a R5 3600.

Thanks again Microcenter!
 
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Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,679
15
81
It seems to be going this way for many things now days. I can remember buying a high end IPhone for $200 subsidized and then later for $600 full price. Now its 1200+ for a flagship. Its personally driving me out of caring for tech. I have a great job and make a very good living well above average for my area, but I refuse to buy things when they are priced like this. It just gives companies confirmation that they CAN charge that much or even try for more. At least in the case of appple, Im hoping their major drop in sales will cause them to reconsider their pricing strategy since the fewer apple phones out there means less app store purchases and less apple music subs. Long term I think these huge price bumps are a bad idea for companies and consumers alike, it just isn't sustainable.

Im hopeful but not optimistic that intel coming into the discrete GPU market will shake things up a bit.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I used to buy video cards every, or every other, generation. If graphics cards keep costing $1000+ for the high end, I'm no longer interested.
 
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