Anyone else hate ABS (Anti-lock Brake Systems)

[Evadman]

I almost got into an accident because of ABS. I was driving my mother's AWD Astro Van in the snow. I took a corner too fast (stupid me) and began a nice 4 wheel slide. I stomped on the brake, and the ABS kicked in. I vibrated the hell out of the pedal, so I know it was on. The only problem was, all it did was lock the wheels totaly so I had no steering ability. There was not enough traction to get the wheels rotating again between the pulses. I was on a nice colision cource with a tree in someone's front yard going about 10 mph. I basicly said 'fvck it' and let go of the brakes so I could steer. I was too far gone to keep it in the street and not hit the tree, so I steered up into the guy's yard to the left of the tree. just as the front of the van passed the tree, I turned towards the tree and pushed the ebrake to the floor so the rear end would slide out and not sideswipe the tree. I stopped about 10' short of the guys house, and didn't touch the tree. The guy wasn't home when i went to the door, and no damage was done to his yard, so off I went with no one the wiser. (expecialy my Mom, which is the most important

So basicly, I hate ABS

 

[alkemyst]

I believe rush hour traffic is a good cause for ABS for most drivers

 

[OS]

interesting side note, insurance companies are considering doing away with ABS insurance discounts completely because statistically, they don't reduce accidents.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

For most of the market, they are good. There are some people who can drive better without them, but you have to be pretty good at handling the car. I guess it depends on the situation when I like them or not, but in situations where they might come into play, I brake ahead of time and drive slower in situations where it would be needed whether the car has ABS or not. For those quick stops, unless you're good at handling the car and have used it for a long time in the weather/condition, then ABS makes it easier.

 

[SuperTool]

I hate the one on my 1996 Maxima, because if I brake going over a speed bump fast, it reacts weird.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't really see how anyone but those with best concentration in emergencies could handle it.

That's basically why I like ABS. Braking as well, or close to as well as ABS, if you lack it requires either a lot of practice (have fun burning out your pads), or exceptional concentration. Fact is most people, regardless of what they say, will lock their brakes up like a spaz if they look up and realize they're about to ram somebody's ass because they were fiddling with the radio. THen you hear the squeeling, then the crashing sound.

In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: OS
interesting side note, insurance companies are considering doing away with ABS insurance discounts completely because statistically, they don't reduce accidents.

I can believe it...when I went back to college we got into a tailgater discussion. Someone said "I always tailgate, I won't hit anyone since I have ABS." Scary part is this was Computer Science and Engineering, you'd think even if someone was an idiot they'd understand the technology out there.

Å

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: OS
interesting side note, insurance companies are considering doing away with ABS insurance discounts completely because statistically, they don't reduce accidents.

I can believe it...when I went back to college we got into a tailgater discussion. Someone said "I always tailgate, I won't hit anyone since I have ABS." Scary part is this was Computer Science and Engineering, you'd think even if someone was an idiot they'd understand the technology out there.

Å

I think I saw that guy the other day - he'd rammed somebody from behind

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I don't really see how anyone but those with best concentration in emergencies could handle it.

That's basically why I like ABS. Braking as well, or close to as well as ABS, if you lack it requires either a lot of practice (have fun burning out your pads), or exceptional concentration. Fact is most people, regardless of what they say, will lock their brakes up like a spaz if they look up and realize they're about to ram somebody's ass because they were fiddling with the radio. THen you hear the squeeling, then the crashing sound.

In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

You are right mostly, except when you are talking about the snow.... the weight and angle the snow is compressed at forms a sort of wedge. Same reason with gravel. A shove isnt angled to shove the snow downwards and compress it with weight.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: dxkj

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I don't really see how anyone but those with best concentration in emergencies could handle it.

That's basically why I like ABS. Braking as well, or close to as well as ABS, if you lack it requires either a lot of practice (have fun burning out your pads), or exceptional concentration. Fact is most people, regardless of what they say, will lock their brakes up like a spaz if they look up and realize they're about to ram somebody's ass because they were fiddling with the radio. THen you hear the squeeling, then the crashing sound.

In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

You are right mostly, except when you are talking about the snow.... the weight and angle the snow is compressed at forms a sort of wedge. Same reason with gravel. A shove isnt angled to shove the snow downwards and compress it with weight.

I think you could mimic it reasonably with the right angle and your foot. I really doubt that the snow produces a huge benefit if you're locked up as opposed to just before locking up. Maybe somebody has numbers...

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

For just plain panic stopping, I'd say it is a minimal difference, but for general maneuvering and handling, ya know, just making the car do what you want it to do--well call me crazy, but ABS gets in my way. Personally, I've gone out driving in the snow in almost every snowstorm since I got my license. (Off the freeway, after rush hour.) It's really fun, and I just prefer brakes without ABS in those conditions. It's not that difficult to modulate to maintain steering control in the snow, and sometimes I prefer to give a little "burst" of lockup just as I turn into a corner to change the "balance" of the automobile and help it rotate through the turn. It's hard to explain what I've been practicing for years. Maybe I really am just crazy.

On dry pavement and in the rain, I prefer having ABS. Speeds are higher and you don't have the same kind of time to think and react. Most sane people (non-kidiots) are not going to be driving right up to the hairy edge of the car's traction capability anyway, no matter how much fun it is, because at high speeds, if you fvck up, you fvck up big. ABS is a non-factor. It doesn't get in the way of normal-conditions driving. ABS is generally a good thing in those conditions, because if you really do need to use the brakes at maximum force and steer, you usually don't have much time to think about how you're going to get it done.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Skoorb
In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

For just plain panic stopping, I'd say it is a minimal difference, but for general maneuvering and handling, ya know, just making the car do what you want it to do--well call me crazy, but ABS gets in my way. Personally, I've gone out driving in the snow in almost every snowstorm since I got my license. (Off the freeway, after rush hour.) It's really fun, and I just prefer brakes without ABS in those conditions. It's not that difficult to modulate to maintain steering control in the snow, and sometimes I prefer to give a little "burst" of lockup just as I turn into a corner to change the "balance" of the automobile and help it rotate through the turn. It's hard to explain what I've been practicing for years. Maybe I really am just crazy.

On dry pavement and in the rain, I prefer having ABS. Speeds are higher and you don't have the same kind of time to think and react. Most sane people (non-kidiots) are not going to be driving right up to the hairy edge of the car's traction capability anyway, no matter how much fun it is, because at high speeds, if you fvck up, you fvck up big. ABS is a non-factor. It doesn't get in the way of normal-conditions driving. ABS is generally a good thing in those conditions, because if you really do need to use the brakes at maximum force and steer, you usually don't have much time to think about how you're going to get it done.

Lack of ABS when playing in the snow is defintely fun. I temporarily disabled it in my mom's 00 impreza one day on a big parking lot. I guess snow got up in a sensor or something, but anyway the ABS light went on and I had to go without for the rest of the drive home. It was fine afterwards though.

 

[BornStar]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Skoorb
In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

For just plain panic stopping, I'd say it is a minimal difference, but for general maneuvering and handling, ya know, just making the car do what you want it to do--well call me crazy, but ABS gets in my way. Personally, I've gone out driving in the snow in almost every snowstorm since I got my license. (Off the freeway, after rush hour.) It's really fun, and I just prefer brakes without ABS in those conditions. It's not that difficult to modulate to maintain steering control in the snow, and sometimes I prefer to give a little "burst" of lockup just as I turn into a corner to change the "balance" of the automobile and help it rotate through the turn. It's hard to explain what I've been practicing for years. Maybe I really am just crazy.

On dry pavement and in the rain, I prefer having ABS. Speeds are higher and you don't have the same kind of time to think and react. Most sane people (non-kidiots) are not going to be driving right up to the hairy edge of the car's traction capability anyway, no matter how much fun it is, because at high speeds, if you fvck up, you fvck up big. ABS is a non-factor. It doesn't get in the way of normal-conditions driving. ABS is generally a good thing in those conditions, because if you really do need to use the brakes at maximum force and steer, you usually don't have much time to think about how you're going to get it done.

I agree that a lack of ABS can be fun for just playing around in the snow but I think you'll find if you're driving in the snow and a car pulls out in front of you, ABS is better than a nuisance. You just can't account for all of the idiot drivers out there.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: BornStar18

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Skoorb
In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

For just plain panic stopping, I'd say it is a minimal difference, but for general maneuvering and handling, ya know, just making the car do what you want it to do--well call me crazy, but ABS gets in my way. Personally, I've gone out driving in the snow in almost every snowstorm since I got my license. (Off the freeway, after rush hour.) It's really fun, and I just prefer brakes without ABS in those conditions. It's not that difficult to modulate to maintain steering control in the snow, and sometimes I prefer to give a little "burst" of lockup just as I turn into a corner to change the "balance" of the automobile and help it rotate through the turn. It's hard to explain what I've been practicing for years. Maybe I really am just crazy.

On dry pavement and in the rain, I prefer having ABS. Speeds are higher and you don't have the same kind of time to think and react. Most sane people (non-kidiots) are not going to be driving right up to the hairy edge of the car's traction capability anyway, no matter how much fun it is, because at high speeds, if you fvck up, you fvck up big. ABS is a non-factor. It doesn't get in the way of normal-conditions driving. ABS is generally a good thing in those conditions, because if you really do need to use the brakes at maximum force and steer, you usually don't have much time to think about how you're going to get it done.

I agree that a lack of ABS can be fun for just playing around in the snow but I think you'll find if you're driving in the snow and a car pulls out in front of you, ABS is better than a nuisance. You just can't account for all of the idiot drivers out there.

That's very true. But in every situation in which I've been in an accident (all on dry pavement, BTW), ABS would not have saved me. Whether it would help me or hurt me when it's snowing, I won't know until it happens, and I hope I'll never get to find out. I do know one thing though, and that's that I react pretty much reflexively to traction limits when driving in snow on the road due to all my experience, and I feel that my instantaneous decision whether to stop, steer, or both in such an "idiot other driver" situation could be carried out with or without ABS. If I do crash, I like to think that it will be because there was simply no room to stop or steer. (It sounds idiotic and over confident, but I do like to think that. Then again, don't we all?)

 

[raptor13]

Originally posted by: BornStar18

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Skoorb
In regards to ABS not being as good in the snow I don't know for sure, but I'd suspect that the benefit from snow clumping in front of the wheel and aiding in braking is _very freaking minimal_. Think about it - next time you've got 2 inches of snow take a shovel equal in width to your two front wheels and with it perpendicular to the ground push it. See how much the clumping of the snow slows it down. Not very much. Now think if you weighed 3000 lbs.

For just plain panic stopping, I'd say it is a minimal difference, but for general maneuvering and handling, ya know, just making the car do what you want it to do--well call me crazy, but ABS gets in my way. Personally, I've gone out driving in the snow in almost every snowstorm since I got my license. (Off the freeway, after rush hour.) It's really fun, and I just prefer brakes without ABS in those conditions. It's not that difficult to modulate to maintain steering control in the snow, and sometimes I prefer to give a little "burst" of lockup just as I turn into a corner to change the "balance" of the automobile and help it rotate through the turn. It's hard to explain what I've been practicing for years. Maybe I really am just crazy.

On dry pavement and in the rain, I prefer having ABS. Speeds are higher and you don't have the same kind of time to think and react. Most sane people (non-kidiots) are not going to be driving right up to the hairy edge of the car's traction capability anyway, no matter how much fun it is, because at high speeds, if you fvck up, you fvck up big. ABS is a non-factor. It doesn't get in the way of normal-conditions driving. ABS is generally a good thing in those conditions, because if you really do need to use the brakes at maximum force and steer, you usually don't have much time to think about how you're going to get it done.

I agree that a lack of ABS can be fun for just playing around in the snow but I think you'll find if you're driving in the snow and a car pulls out in front of you, ABS is better than a nuisance. You just can't account for all of the idiot drivers out there.

Skoorb is correct. I can't find it right now (I'm looking and will post it if I do find it) but Car & Driver did a study awhile back on the effects of the "wedge of snow." They determined that while locking the wheels in the snow does stop faster than not locking them, it is not the wedge that does it. Their conclusion was that the wedge theory is bunk but they, nor did anyone else, know what forces were at work producing the results they saw.

So, basically, we know the wedge isn't it. We don't know what the right answer is, either. People made up stories about what causes rain, too.

 

[yhelothar]

hmmm I need abs.. one time I slammed my break on the rain, my tires just skidded and I didn't stop so fast. I don't think I would have had the reaction to naturally start pumping the breaks, nor would I have had the time.

 

[Calin]

I'd wish I'd have ABS on my car...

Calin

 

[DOSfan]

Well, I for one say to hell with ABS.

Really teach people how to drive instead!!

I am used to non-ABS, and I can do well without them. But when I am stopping for a red light on a highway in heavy rain, and giving myself enough room to make a complete stop in time, I do NOT need some dumb SOB deciding that is the time to enter the highway right in front of me. :disgust: For the record, I did not have an accident that day... But I did come damn close.

I would happily trade in all the "safety bells and whistles" to get some real driving courses intitiated.

But that is just me.

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

nope ABS is my best friend in the snow up here
but at autoXs i don't to much like it ....but then again i can just pull a fuse in my fuse box to take it off

but if i did take it off id prolly end up stabbing the brakes to hard locking the wheels and sliding of course or just screwing my tires in general (moreso than accidentally hitting ABS on the course)

 

[sharkeeper]

Yes I prefer non ABS even though ABS technically is superior. Count it up to years of driving without ABS. It's hard *not* to modulate the brakes and this just wrecks the purpose.

Airbags are very good in cars. I cannot say the same about putting them in computers, however!

Cheers!

 

[dxkj]

well I dislike ABS, but since these ones are "smarter" pulse way fast (10-15 times a second), and are independent per tire, I guess I can live with them. Plus it is probably easier to sell with ABS than without. (and I can always take out the fuse if I want

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Shockwave
Air bags dont bother me so much. usually if I need those its pretty bad. ABS is a whole nother ballgame. Yes, I can drive better without them. Yes, I know. Half the cars I've owned in my life did not have them. One I own now doesnt have it, the other does. I much prefer the non ABS'd cars over ones with ABS.

The crazu driving reference is simply its easier to have fun in a non ABS equipped car.

Me wonders how you drive. It is not that ABS is changing your braking anybit but in an emergency situation they will keep your car steerable. That is what ABS is for - not for shorter braking distances just to keep YOU in control of your car while doing emergency breaking.

You know driving as an analog buisness not digital (full throttle/full brake) so u will rarely get into the situation of actually activating the ABS.