Anyone else get Miscrosoft Anti-Pirating mail at home?

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
4,190
0
0
About every 6 months or so I get some Anti-Pirating mail at home from Microsoft , it usually says how they have sued a total of 2 people or something.
Why dont they go after more piraters? I am sure they could come out ahead on some level no?


If you are wondering ,I am totally innocent . :D I am just curious.


 

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
4,190
0
0
I actually wish theyd sue me, the media coverage alone might bring some of the opposite sex my way. :D
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
The piraters help MS to sustain it's market share.

It doesn't cost MS any for people to steal Windows, people who wouldn't buy it in the first place.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
Originally posted by: drag
The piraters help MS to sustain it's market share.

It doesn't cost MS any for people to steal Windows, people who wouldn't buy it in the first place.

/lights the pilot flame
/waits with a keg of Ziegen
 

Bassyhead

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2001
4,545
0
0
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: drag
The piraters help MS to sustain it's market share.

It doesn't cost MS any for people to steal Windows, people who wouldn't buy it in the first place.

/lights the pilot flame
/waits with a keg of Ziegen

oh boy

why don't i steal a ferrari then? i'm not going to buy one anyways and it wont cost ferrari anything :roll:
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
why don't i steal a ferrari then? i'm not going to buy one anyways and it wont cost ferrari anything

Sure it would, they would lose a good chunk of money on parts alone. MS makes 1 copy of Windows and sells millions, Ferrari has to make each vehicle they sell.
 

flamingspinach

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
354
0
0
Originally posted by: Nothinman
why don't i steal a ferrari then? i'm not going to buy one anyways and it wont cost ferrari anything

Sure it would, they would lose a good chunk of money on parts alone. MS makes 1 copy of Windows and sells millions, Ferrari has to make each vehicle they sell.

Exactly. Piracy is simply free publicity. With immaterial products such as software, pirating it does not actually cost the company anything at all.

-fs
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
With immaterial products such as software, pirating it does not actually cost the company anything at all

Wrong. While you can argue there are a group of people who would under no circumstances buy the product, there are plenty that will if they can't get it 'easily'. As a real example, one of the main goals of XP activation was to deal with 'shady' computer stores who sold the same copy of windows on every machine going out the door (without the knowledge of the buyers). To say that doesn't cost the company anything is simplistic and stupid.

Bill
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0

Of course piracy is theft. But it's acceptable to loose money to maintain a market.

It doesn't cost you any more to have 1 copy of a program then 1 million copies of a program. This is a reality, this is the nature of digital media...


Think about it. It costs the same to make 1 Windows XP operating system as it costs to make a million copies of Windows XP. That's a fact.

The only costs would be the stamping the cdroms or even just setting up a bittorrent and let people burn their own cdroms, if they realy wanted to do it.

Of course Microsoft isn't going sell a single Windows XP OS for 5 billion dollars in order make it's money, it's going to sell 200 million copies at a few hundred dollars apeice and make a lot more money from it.


Piracy helps Microsoft protect their desktop monopoly by not having to lower their prices to reach everybody. If they lowered their prices to the point were it removed the desire for people to pirate then they wouldn't make the 300% profits they currently enjoy on Windows XP.

If MS didn't allow a certain amount of piracy then that would increase demand for developers and hardware to support other people's operating systems.

All those a-holes pirating MS software would then go to linux or whatnot and they would demand support from hardware manufactures and people who make games and other software. Not that they will buy most of it, but people who pirate OSes actually do buy software time to time.

There is nothing simplistic and I am not advocating piracy, I am just calling it as I see it.


Remember how everybody was complaining about Windows XP activation sceme and how it was a huge pain in the rear? How many of those people were using pirated versions of Windows 98? Or had bought "upgrade" versions and simply borrowed a win95 DOS boot disk from somebody to get around the installer?

(of course the protection stuff was cracked a week before they even released the OS, but that's besides the point, MS and most lay people just assumed that it would work)

Remember how Windows XP didn't have a rapid uptake, how it took a while before people started switching over from the Win9x and W2k OSes?
Well what did MS do?

They released a version that did not require activation.

Yes, that's right. MS released a version of Windows XP that did not have to be activated. The "corporate" edition.

Why didn't MS just release a version of the installer were you could burn your own cdroms to install on a bunch of systems then offered a network service on one of the server machines were the client machines would activate against it? So people would have their own private authentication servers that keep track of the number of licenses and occasionally themselves checked and authenticated with the original software developer's own servers online.

Lots of other companies have software that works like that, I've installed and used software on fairly large networks that would go and have to be "activated" or authenticated pretty much every single time a person started it up, and that's how they do that stuff.

How many people do you think downloaded or obtained a copy of this "corporate" edition Windows XP? I think that it served a large part of WinXP's growth in popularity for at least a little while.

I'd bet you that Win98 would have a much higher presence in the "gamer" community, then it currently does then if it wasn't for Windows XP Corporate edition.

It also helps MS's growth prospects in countries were most people could never to afford to pay for Windows, even if they wanted to.


So I think that it's like a nessicary evil for MS's marketting strategy, or at least was for a while.

Now the only thing they prosecute over is people fraudrently selling copies of cracked Windows XP as the real deal, so far.

I don't think that they will make a easy to steal version of Longhorn, or any other future OS, though. The high speed internet stuff makes things TOO easy.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
13,346
0
0
Remember how Windows XP didn't have a rapid uptake, how it took a while before people started switching over from the Win9x and W2k OSes?
Well what did MS do?

They released a version that did not require activation.

The fact that they where released at the same time (heck, we got our corp drop from MS before the activated versions) kinda dispells that part of your theory.

Bill

 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
drag -

It's not a "corporate" edition. It's the 'Volume Licensing Agreement.' And it was released at the same time as Windows XP retail. And Microsoft releases 'Volume Licensing' software for most of their product lines, not just WinXP
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Volume license agreements also do not offer full licenses for Microsoft products, a fact that many people overlook. Volume license agreements are for upgrades only.

And for those that think piracy doesn't hurt the bottom line, over a quarter of all PCs (worldwide) that ship in FY2005 will ship with unlicensed Microsoft software. That is a huge amount of product that Microsoft is not being compensated for.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
And for those that think piracy doesn't hurt the bottom line, over a quarter of all PCs (worldwide) that ship in FY2005 will ship with unlicensed Microsoft software. That is a huge amount of product that Microsoft is not being compensated for.

That seems to be a counter argument, you just pointed out that MS pulls in billions a year even though over a quarter of their flagship product is pirated.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Where did I say that? A quarter of the software is pirated, they don't get anything for that.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Where did I say that? A quarter of the software is pirated, they don't get anything for that.

No, but what they do get is more than most companies see in 10 years even with the pirated software.
 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Oh I see. So because they make a lot of money, losing 25% of your revenue is ok. I'm curious, how much money does a company have to make before it becomes ok for people to steal from them?
 

BujinZero

Member
Jul 12, 2001
116
0
0
Originally posted by: STaSh
Volume license agreements also do not offer full licenses for Microsoft products, a fact that many people overlook. Volume license agreements are for upgrades only.

And for those that think piracy doesn't hurt the bottom line, over a quarter of all PCs (worldwide) that ship in FY2005 will ship with unlicensed Microsoft software. That is a huge amount of product that Microsoft is not being compensated for.

Not fiancially compensated for, you mean. If 25% of computers shipped in FY2005 have unlicensed Microsoft software, that's a sizable chunk of the market that Microsoft can keep control of. Those users will buy or steal things that run on Windows, and Microsoft maintains its monopoly and influence on the world computer market. The revenue loss ('cost') is a small price to pay for what they gain by allowing piracy.

Also, by rigorously persecuting pirates, Microsoft would further demonize itself, divide opinion on the piracy issue, and drive more people toward open-source and Apple, and lose precious market share. The main benefit of monopoly is not profit, it's control.
 

Ozz1113

Member
Nov 6, 2004
68
0
0


Why don't they just make programs and games 100gb in size so nobody would want to download them? lol
IMO, if companies really wanted to stop it, they really would STOP it.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Oh I see. So because they make a lot of money, losing 25% of your revenue is ok. I'm curious, how much money does a company have to make before it becomes ok for people to steal from them?

I never said it was ok. It just seems that they never really tried to stop any of the piracy until recently. Some might speculate that in the past (and even now to an extent) MS doesn't mind a certain level of piracy because it keeps their marketshare up, if pirating Windows was impossible I'd be willing to be there would be a lot more people looking at Linux as an alternative, maybe not 25% but still more than there are right now.

IMO, if companies really wanted to stop it, they really would STOP it.

Care to explain how they would go about stopping it?
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
I could most likely be wrong. It's a bit of a hairbrained idea, but it reflects the realities of the software industry as I see it.

I don't care if corporate edition it's about volume liscencing or whatnot. Obviously that's the big part of it.

The only important part is that it requires no activation. It's would be a VERY easy thing to do to impliment a volume liscencing authentication server that people can install on the networks were they have to install or upgrade or whatever large amounts of computers. People have been doing similar things for years with other peices of software.


The way things go MS would stand to loose more money by going on a rampage to eliminate all forms of piracy, they benifit from the market share and in turn it actually ends up with them selling more copies of WinXP then they would otherwise of done.

In effect they sacrifice 5% of potiential revenue now in order to gaurd againgst losing 20% of their revenue in the future due to increased compitition.


I am not saying that it's OK to pirate, or that MS doesn't loose some potential revenue from it. I am saying that they cannot eliminate all forms of piracy and that in the long run they benifit from limited forms.


There are other things, too. For example OEM licensing of software. A retail license of WinXP Pro is over 400 dollars on a one by one license. However how many people here actually bought it for that?

Isn't that lost revenue for MS because all these people buying software for a 100 dollars could be forced to realy buy it for 400 dollars?

So even though they have potential revenue lost, they still allow people to buy licenses of OEM at a much reduced price. If they stuck with the retail price tag of 400 dollars they maybe would make more money, but it probably would reduce the market share and increase demand for other less expensive operating systems.

Another example is that Microsoft gives out free licenses to people. I received free copies of WinXP, and several different versions of W2k server, which one of those w2k server versions would normally cost a few thousand dollars. Completely free, completely legitiment.

Why? Because I was enrolled in some computer administration classes at a local college and it was a program they established so that students could get all the free MS software that they wanted too.

Why would MS want to do that? So that increases the likelyhood that people like me, being a student who could at the time barely afford a 69 cent burrito, could get access to software and train myself to use it thus increasing the numbers of inexpensive and cheap technical workforce to support their software in the workplace. And at the same time by giving software away to colleges and universities, and giving software away to students and facalty it's a good PR move, and as a result many places that would offer more classes on Unix administration and have much more Mac computers in classes now are almost 100% MS.

Thus it makes it more difficult to find a person who is familar with Unix/Linux administration then it is to find people with Microsoft administration, even though Unix/Linux servers account for nearly 50% of the market these students are going into.

I am not advocating Piracy, I am not saying that MS likes it.

The question the man asked is why MS not more active on cracking down on piracy. I think that it is not in MS's best interests to get TOO gunhoo on it.

It's bad PR. It reduces their market penitration, and it would increase demand for rival software and products.


Of course if MS could eliminate all piracy, they probably would, but they can't. They could probably reduce it by a large margin, but whatever.
 

LiLithTecH

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2002
3,105
0
0
Originally posted by: STaSh
Volume license agreements also do not offer full licenses for Microsoft products, a fact that many people overlook. Volume license agreements are for upgrades only.

And for those that think piracy doesn't hurt the bottom line, over a quarter of all PCs (worldwide) that ship in FY2005 will ship with unlicensed Microsoft software. That is a huge amount of product that Microsoft is not being compensated for.

What part of VOLUME LICENSING do you not understand?

There are dozens of various agreements provided by MS and none of them are for upgrades only. All have a COA (Certificate of Authenticity).
(Perpetual, non-Perpetual, Enterprise, Open Lincense, Academic, Multi-Year, Select, MSDN, etc.. and the list goes on)

OEM's have Full-Packaged and Pre-Installed.

MS RETAIL package UPGRADES are the only ones available.

Originally posted by:Ozz1113

Why don't they just make programs and games 100gb in size so nobody would want to download them? lol
IMO, if companies really wanted to stop it, they really would STOP it.

Office 2006 may exceed that quota.
Can never have to much BLOATWARE.

-------------------------------------------------


There is nothing inherently wrong with MS Activation.
It is the silly hoops they push legitimate users through to MANTAIN their products.
Re-Activiation for a hardware UPGRADE is simply ludicrous.


Viva-la LINUX!



 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
What part of VOLUME LICENSING do you not understand?

There are dozens of various agreements provided by MS and none of them are for upgrades only. All have a COA (Certificate of Authenticity).
(Perpetual, non-Perpetual, Enterprise, Open Lincense, Academic, Multi-Year, Select, MSDN, etc.. and the list goes on)

OEM's have Full-Packaged and Pre-Installed.

MS RETAIL package UPGRADES are the only ones available

You really should read before you berate someone.

Have a look at the volume licensing FAQ, specifically the second to last question "There are three ways Microsoft licenses software. What are they?" http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/resources/faq.mspx

Here's an article from the Register on this topic: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...ume_licensing_upgrade/

 

Mavtech

Platinum Member
Jun 11, 2003
2,197
0
71
I read an article once that interviewed an MS employee. He said he would rather someone steal Microsoft Windows then use Linux.
 

imported_Phil

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2001
9,837
0
0
Originally posted by: bsobel
Remember how Windows XP didn't have a rapid uptake, how it took a while before people started switching over from the Win9x and W2k OSes?
Well what did MS do?

They released a version that did not require activation.

The fact that they where released at the same time (heck, we got our corp drop from MS before the activated versions) kinda dispells that part of your theory.

Bill

Coupled with the picture of the Devil's Own VLK/Corporate edition CD being held in front of a "35 days to go!" sign...