Anyone else enjoy the Repubs squirming on Obamacare replacement?

[ivwshane]

That's what I would assume, but good God the Rs are doing their best to make it happen.

HC isn't going to get fixed until we start using real facts and approaching this with the seriousness it deserves.

So probably not anytime soon..

The problem is that politicians have been trying to fix the issues with the current system without asking and seeing if the majority agree: is health care a right? If its not a right then the best we can do is to help the worst off among us (financially and physically) and let everyone else fend for themselves with the government providing protection through regulations. If the majority of Americans believe it's a right then a universal coverage/single payer system is the next step with full on price controls and required taxes.

 

[sportage]

Take away seniors medicare and force middle class into bankruptcy over medical bills just might result in some flipping.
Take away grandma's medicare money that pays for her nursing home care just might do some flipping.

And notice those "small business" owners the repubs are parading around on Fox News that want the death of Obamacare because Obamacare forces these dead beat business owners TO PROVIDE their employees with healthcare.
They'd rather plan for family trips to Tahiti than provide healthcare, the dead beats.....

The choices are....
Employer based healthcare (current system)
Or, Universal healthcare.
Or no healthcare.
Well, our American system has opted for the employer based system.
So that means Mr small business owner... pony up.
Get with the plan.
Do your patriotic duty, or.... support and vote for democrats and the Universal system.

I have no soft spot for any small or large business owner that refuses to go along with the American employer based healthcare for profit system.
When they start a business, that is their duty to their workers.
That is simply how it is in America.
So either get onboard, or get the hell out of business.
Dead beat is not an option....

 

[Bitek]

The problem is that politicians have been trying to fix the issues with the current system without asking and seeing if the majority agree: is health care a right? If its not a right then the best we can do is to help the worst off among us (financially and physically) and let everyone else fend for themselves with the government providing protection through regulations. If the majority of Americans believe it's a right then a universal coverage/single payer system is the next step with full on price controls and required taxes.

I just don't think anyone has the patience or ambition to tackle HC anytime soon if/when this fails. It took how many decades of bickering to get to the ACA?

D's don't want to take this on. ACA was painful enough and took a super majority. Rs are surely feeling sorry they did. Trump is crying his man tears in public about it.

This is it, this fails we are done. ACA to stay, and we fight over the admin of the program. If it passes, it's crap legislation, but unless D's get another strong majority due to backlash, it's going to be hard to do much about it.

Most likely path is stalemate.

 

[trenchfoot]

National referendum on the ACA anyone?

 

[HomerJS]

Republicans were creaming themselves to get this passed on the anniversary of the ACA signing and it didn't happen.

Shows they don't give a rats ass about healthcare, this is purely ideological for them.

 

[K1052]

I saw a quote from one GOP rep saying his constituents just don't like the bill because he hasn't had a chance to explain it to them yet. The lack of concern that they could possibly pass a piece of legislation that is, by all available information, almost universally hated by the electorate is interesting. This is looking like a political Kobayashi Maru.

 

[vi edit]

I saw a quote from one GOP rep saying his constituents just don't like the bill because he hasn't had a chance to explain it to them yet. The lack of concern that they could possibly pass a piece of legislation that is, by all available information, almost universally hated by the electorate is interesting. This is looking like a political Kobayashi Maru.

Is there an official "How to spin this shit to your constituents" handout that has been drawn up for representatives to use? Maybe they could put it on the back of trash can lid that can also be used as a makeshift shield in the event things start getting thrown at them.

How do you spin this as a positive to 95% of the country?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This is a good point to evaluate Dem failure to explain & sell the ACA. Lost seats over it, definately didn't help last election now it turns out a strong majority like it over the other options

 

[Paratus]

Well I tried calling my rep this morning. Mailbox was full. So I sent him an email asking him to vote no on the AHCA and work with the healthcare industry and his constituents to come up with a better alternative.

I'm sure it won't make a difference but it couldn't hurt.

 

[Bitek]

Well I tried calling my rep this morning. Mailbox was full. So I sent him an email asking him to vote no on the AHCA and work with the healthcare industry and his constituents to come up with a better alternative.

I'm sure it won't make a difference but it couldn't hurt.

It's sounds like that stuff helps. Not a single phone call, certainly not just a bunch of ranting and venom, but deluges of normal voters expressing concerns seems to rattle their cages.

 

[zinfamous]

Looks like Trump is tired of winning, and he is pretty clearly going to Pontius Pilate this disastrous failure onto the shoulders of Ryan and the GOP Congress.

LOL.

 

[K1052]

Is there an official "How to spin this shit to your constituents" handout that has been drawn up for representatives to use? Maybe they could put it on the back of trash can lid that can also be used as a makeshift shield in the event things start getting thrown at them.

How do you spin this as a positive to 95% of the country?

If this passes the town halls that were already brutal are going to look like World War Z. It's hard to believe that the GOP decided to gamble their congressional majorities right out of the gate on one of the big things that cause the Dems to loose seats.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Looks like Trump is tired of winning, and he is pretty clearly going to Pontius Pilate this disastrous failure onto the shoulders of Ryan and the GOP Congress.

LOL.

I'm content to keep ACA and see whether it implodes or not.

 

[pcgeek11]

The GOP is just as fucked up as the Dems. They both have their colllective heads so far up their asses they do not see what the issue actually consistes of. The insurance is not the problem. The problem is the inflated costs of health care. Tort reform, Price regulation for drugs and medical treatment, purchase ins across state lines. This is what needs to be fixed.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Looks like Trump is tired of winning, and he is pretty clearly going to Pontius Pilate this disastrous failure onto the shoulders of Ryan and the GOP Congress.

LOL.

Per Trumps recent tweets he's calling out the free dumb caucus. Basically said keep abortion funding and ACA if they choose to vote no

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The GOP is just as fucked up as the Dems. They both have their colllective heads so far up their asses they do not see what the issue actually consistes of. The insurance is not the problem. The problem is the inflated costs of health care. Tort reform, Price regulation for drugs and medical treatment, purchase ins across state lines. This is what needs to be fixed.

I am shocked, I'd never guess I'd hear you say that.
I will say I'm alright with tort reform but I have to say besides the headlines it's not a big part of cost. I've never met anyone who won a big malpractice suit and I don't want to see someone's life get fucked up by sloppy drug testing and get like a $200k settlement because it's capped at 4 times their earning or something silly.

 

[fskimospy]

Looks like Trump is tired of winning, and he is pretty clearly going to Pontius Pilate this disastrous failure onto the shoulders of Ryan and the GOP Congress.

LOL.

I fully expect this to pass in the House and then die in the Senate. My guess is that's what would be best for Republicans electorally as well. Forget how unpopular it is, this bill is so poorly conceived and so ineptly written that actually enacting it would be a total disaster that would likely decimate Republicans in the next election. I imagine they would much prefer to say 'we tried', blame it on some moderate and safe R senators, and go back to complaining about the ACA while offering no solutions.

The one nice thing about this is that it has proven basically every Republican objection to the ACA to be a craven and cynical lie.

Remember how their plan was going to cover more people for less money? Lol.

Remember 'pass it so you can find out what's in it'? Lol.

Remember 'why is this bill being rushed?' Lol.

Remember 'crammed down the public's throats'? Lol.

I could go on. I wonder why conservatives aren't making those same objections now? Oh wait, I know why. Tax cuts for rich people.

 

[sdifox]

I am shocked, I'd never guess I'd hear you say that.
I will say I'm alright with tort reform but I have to say besides the headlines it's not a big part of cost. I've never met anyone who won a big malpractice suit and I don't want to see someone's life get fucked up by sloppy drug testing and get like a $200k settlement because it's capped at 4 times their earning or something silly.

Problem is because of the potential payout, the insurance for malpractice is very expensive and that just adds to the cost. Tort reform is necesary, but I worry that it is not going to be done right.

 

[pcgeek11]

I am shocked, I'd never guess I'd hear you say that.
I will say I'm alright with tort reform but I have to say besides the headlines it's not a big part of cost. I've never met anyone who won a big malpractice suit and I don't want to see someone's life get fucked up by sloppy drug testing and get like a $200k settlement because it's capped at 4 times their earning or something silly.

Usually the person suing don't get shit anyway. The lawyers are the only ones to come out ahead. Look at all the class action law suit commercials on TV these days, it is truely discusting.

 

[brycejones]

I fully expect this to pass in the House and then die in the Senate. My guess is that's what would be best for Republicans electorally as well. Forget how unpopular it is, this bill is so poorly conceived and so ineptly written that actually enacting it would be a total disaster that would likely decimate Republicans in the next election. I imagine they would much prefer to say 'we tried', blame it on some moderate and safe R senators, and go back to complaining about the ACA while offering no solutions.

The one nice thing about this is that it has proven basically every Republican objection to the ACA to be a craven and cynical lie.

Remember how their plan was going to cover more people for less money? Lol.

Remember 'pass it so you can find out what's in it'? Lol.

Remember 'why is this bill being rushed?' Lol.

Remember 'crammed down the public's throats'? Lol.

I could go on. I wonder why conservatives aren't making those same objections now? Oh wait, I know why. Tax cuts for rich people.

Because it is about freedom. Some people especially the poor just don't want healthcare why should it be forced on those oppressed hypothetical people? The GOP is doing this to protect those poors from healthcare they don't want.

 

[pcgeek11]

Looks like Trump is tired of winning, and he is pretty clearly going to Pontius Pilate this disastrous failure onto the shoulders of Ryan and the GOP Congress.

LOL.

That is exactly where this failure belongs.

 

[brycejones]

Usually the person suing don't get shit anyway. The lawyers are the only ones to come out ahead. Look at all the class action law suit commercials on TV these days, it is truely discusting.

You are right companies should be able to lie cheat and steal as long as they only take a little each time. Hell maybe set up some bank accounts in your name without permission and then hide behind forced arbitration clauses. Companies have rights and individuals should not be able to enforce their rights in a meaningful manner if they conflict with the corporation's right to steal just a little bit.

 

[fskimospy]

Usually the person suing don't get shit anyway. The lawyers are the only ones to come out ahead. Look at all the class action law suit commercials on TV these days, it is truely discusting.

Totally separate discussion but while lawyers generally are the ones that benefit the most INDIVIDUALLY from class action lawsuits the country as a whole benefits enormously from them. Without the threat of class action lawsuits what would happen if Verizon pulled some shady accounting and added $5 onto every one of their customers' phone bills? Nobody is going to sue over $5, but Verizon would get hundreds of millions of dollars. Now imagine if every company you did business with did that. That's why class action lawsuits are important.

As for tort reform, medical malpractice costs (including payouts and defensive medicine) simply don't comprise much of national health care spending at all. Last time I checked all 3 combined were 2% of health care costs. If you're going to take away or limit people's constitutional rights then you better have a good reason, and saving some fraction of 2% doesn't seem that compelling to me. As mentioned before, selling across state lines is already available but insurance companies don't want to do it.

 

[dullard]

The GOP is just as fucked up as the Dems. They both have their colllective heads so far up their asses they do not see what the issue actually consistes of. The insurance is not the problem. The problem is the inflated costs of health care. Tort reform, Price regulation for drugs and medical treatment, purchase ins across state lines. This is what needs to be fixed.

You have the problem identified correctly, but not the fixes. Yes, tort reform will help, but it is a teeny tiny driver of the costs. Do it, but don't expect prices to drop noticeably.

I also think that price regulation is often a very short-sighted fix. Yes, it fixes the short-term problem at hand but price controls are notorious for creating many more problems in the future (notably lack of supply or supply that is done as poorly and as cheaply as imaginable like slum lords). What we need to bring down prices on drugs and medical treatment is competition. Drugs with a single supplier are going up 5000% not because of lack of regulation, but because of the single supplier part. I actually agree with Trump on this portion: if the government helped pay for the drug development (and thus has patent rights) and if there is a sole-supplier that is jacking up prices, then the government should have the right to be a competitor.

The main lack of competition is with doctors though. Many small cities around here (think 25,000 people) have a single person who does a type of medical work. Thus, these specialists are making $500k a year and up. We need to break the AMA control and produce more doctors. Two specialists each making $200k is cheaper than one making $500k plus the patients get far better care when the specialists have twice the time to think about and interact with their patients. And no one, democrat or republican, is serious enough about health reform to tackle the AMA strangle-hold on supply of doctors.

Purchase insurance across state lines has been around for years and years, yet it is always a dismal failure. Hoping that would fix this issue is just blind hope. The only way for this to happen is for states to decide to normalize their health care standards. With 50 different complex laws, regulations and systems, very few insurance companies ever even consider crossing state lines. This fix first needs to be done at the state level, then maybe purchasing across state lines might be of help.

 

[pcgeek11]

You are right companies should be able to lie cheat and steal as long as they only take a little each time. Hell maybe set up some bank accounts in your name without permission and then hide behind forced arbitration clauses. Companies have rights and individuals should not be able to enforce their rights in a meaningful manner if they conflict with the corporation's right to steal just a little bit.

I don't even know what the fuck you are raving about. That isn't what I said nor was it what I was advocating for. Don't act stupid.