Anyone build a XIM for PS3?

[pontifex]

well see i disagree with this too.

anyone can go out and buy an XIM if they want, just like anyone can go out and buy a joystick if they want.

does the mouse give you an advantage over using a controller? prlbably since like you said, you are used to mouse on PC.

but if you gave these console FPS gamers who had never played a PC FPS a mouse, i guarantee you they would be better with the pad unless they practiced with the mouse a lot. they won't automatically be better with a mouse than they are with the pad. it's not a magic solution.

it is the same thing w/the joysticks. kids who are just now getting into fighters and never even played in arcades will have a lot of trouble adapting to a joystick. i've seen plenty of posts on gamefaqs or srk about kids who have been using a joystick for over a month and still can't get the hang of it.

i'm pretty sure there are still some people who play with pads who can own people playing with a mouse (on consoles). it is just all about preference.

2 weeks ago there was a pad player in a major ssf4 tournament (one of the biggest tourneys in the country) who came in 3rd place, defeating professionals on the way.

either way, if you are just playing at home and not enterting tourneys w/specific rules, use whatever you are best with and most comfortable with.

exactly. and you if you saw me trying to play an fps game on a console, you'd think i was having a seizure while playing. i can't fucking play it at all with a gamepad. anyone who has been playing on consoles would kick my ass no problem.

 

[BD2003]

So why don't you just learn how to use and get used to the dual sticks? If I can do it, so can you. I'm sure you weren't a wizard with the mouse at first.

Believe me, I felt the same way about dual sticks for a long time. I was like a gimp with the sticks too. I resisted because I simply wasn't as good with the sticks as I was with the mouse. I might have even resorted to one of these hacks if they were available back then. But as I got used to the sticks, I just began to accept the mouse is simply more precise than the sticks can ever be, and I learned to exist within those limitations because that's what was required on the platform.

It's not just about use whatever you're comfy with. How much fun would you really have gaming online if you knew you were the only person with dual sticks while the rest used mice, and thus consistently wiped the floor with you? None at all. MP is only fun when everyones on a relatively level playing field.

 

[KMFJD]

How about a controller that get's rid of the thumb pad and replaces it with a trackball? I'd go for that

 

[Ban Bot]

I hope they continue to work poorly. If they worked well, it'd be quite the unfair advantage in MP.

Sorry, the Xim2 works fine in many shooters on the Xbox 360.

As for an advantage, you OBVIOUSLY don't understand HOW the device works. The above comments shows such, but just to clue you in.

The Xim2 cannot allow users to do movements that game doesn't allow. If the FASTEST a player can turn 360 degrees with a gamepad is 2 seconds then the Xim2 has the same limitations.

End of story.

You cannot do anything with a Xim that you cannot do with a pad.

Anyone who says differently doesn't know (or chooses to spread FUD) how the device works.

The only difference is HOW movements are created. Are you better at using a thumb or your fingers? The CoD MW1/2 games and Halo 3 demonstrate there are many, many very skilled players who actually prefer pads and can best mouse gamers.

 

[purbeast0]

It's not just about use whatever you're comfy with. How much fun would you really have gaming online if you knew you were the only person with dual sticks while the rest used mice, and thus consistently wiped the floor with you? None at all. MP is only fun when everyones on a relatively level playing field.

and again, i feel that with an adapter like the XIM everyone is STILL on a 'relatively even' playing field, since in the end, it is just emulating the pad inputs.

honestly if i was getting my ass kicked and EVERYONE used a mouse and i was the ONLY pad player, chances are I would understand that the pad isn't as good as a mouse, and i would make the change to a mouse so that I could improve my skills, regardless how uncomfortable it is.

i mean I had to do this on PC for FPS. i was so hesitant to switch from keyboard only play styles to using a mouse when it became the norm because of how weird it felt. but once i got used to it, i realized how much better it is and would never look back.

i'm not really worried about that fantasy situation anyways

 

[Ban Bot]

So why don't you just learn how to use and get used to the dual sticks? If I can do it, so can you. I'm sure you weren't a wizard with the mouse at first.

Typical Response:
1. I had to work really hard to get good with X.
2. There is an option that allows the use of Y, negating the need to spend countless hours mastering X.
3. But since I worked so hard on X I will consider anything else cheating.

There are many fallacies to this arguement (everything from physical limitations of some individuals to available gaming time) but the bottomline is (a) the device is available to all and (b) it gives both gamepad and mouse users the same movement limitations.

Actually the KB offers some limitations, e.g. no analog left-stick movement and no analog triggers.

Believe me, I felt the same way about dual sticks for a long time. I was like a gimp with the sticks too. I resisted because I simply wasn't as good with the sticks as I was with the mouse. I might have even resorted to one of these hacks if they were available back then. But as I got used to the sticks, I just began to accept the mouse is simply more precise than the sticks can ever be, and I learned to exist within those limitations because that's what was required on the platform.

This isn't true.

There are many, many console gamers with amazing thumb stick control. Go to YouTube or play with a good clan.

But it does sound like you personally aren't very good with thumbsticks. Sorry to hear that. Practice more maybe??

It's not just about use whatever you're comfy with.

Of course it is.

How much fun would you really have gaming online if you knew you were the only person with dual sticks while the rest used mice, and thus consistently wiped the floor with you? None at all. MP is only fun when everyones on a relatively level playing field.

1. MP isn't even remotely a level playing field.

What is your display resolution? Screen size? Processing lag? Are you using WiFi or a wired connection? How good is your net connection? How far are you from a major hub? Do you have surround speakers or stereo?

The idea that console gaming is relatively equal or fair is a facade.

What isn't a joke is that a device like the Xim cannot give players improved abilities. The issue is sherely mechanical. Yes, a mouse is easier for many to make many small, fine changes in movement. This is mostly negated by game designs. The KB/MS lacks analog WASD and triggers, has a difficult time maintaining linear movement speed, and when moved fast outpaces the speed cap resulting in frequently pickups.

2. Most of my friends who have tried the Xim actually prefer the gamepad. I have a couple 50-level friends in Halo 3 and guess what? They think Mice suck for shooters. They even use them on the PC.

 

[Ban Bot]

How about a controller that get's rid of the thumb pad and replaces it with a trackball? I'd go for that

A company tried, got no support from Sony/MS, and it never came to market.

 

[BD2003]

Again with the mental gymanstics. In theory, everything you say is true. Anything that can be done on the sticks can be done with a mouse, or xim.

Now here's the reality - you take a bunch of typical pc gamers good with the mouse, and a bunch of typical console gamers good with the sticks. The mice players will virtually always win.

You can get really good with the sticks, you can even get really good using the sticks or a mouse with your toes if you're really dedicated. It's much, much easier to aim really precisely with a mouse. Pros might able able to do magic things with sticks, but they're not typical. The typical mouse user has the advantage. Anyone who doesn't believe that is out of sync with reality.

 

[purbeast0]

Again with the mental gymanstics. In theory, everything you say is true. Anything that can be done on the sticks can be done with a mouse, or xim.

Now here's the reality - you take a bunch of typical pc gamers good with the mouse, and a bunch of typical console gamers good with the sticks. The mice players will virtually always win.

You can get really good with the sticks, you can even get really good using the sticks or a mouse with your toes if you're really dedicated. It's much, much easier to aim really precisely with a mouse. Pros might able able to do magic things with sticks, but they're not typical. The typical mouse user has the advantage. Anyone who doesn't believe that is out of sync with reality.

that is not true by any means if you are playing a console game.

i'd be hard pressed to put my $$ on the ogre brothers beating anybody in the world at halo 2 regardless of the other person using a kb/m or a controller.

and vice versa for the top pc fps gamers, putting a console player on a PC game w/an xbox 360 controller.

and it's all due to how the games are programmed for one and not the other.

 

[Ban Bot]

Again with the mental gymanstics. In theory, everything you say is true. Anything that can be done on the sticks can be done with a mouse, or xim.

At least you conceed that technically the device gives no advantage.

Now here's the reality - you take a bunch of typical pc gamers good with the mouse, and a bunch of typical console gamers good with the sticks. The mice players will virtually always win.

I have tested this.

Your theory, you called reality, isn't represenative of the testing I have done.

Difference? I have gamepads and a Xim.

You do not.

Anyone who doesn't believe that is out of sync with reality.

I wasn't aware that technical facts and actual testing = gymnastics, out of sync with reality.

But if your opinion = reality, well, we can just disregard the facts and testing Because your opinion, without even trying the device and seeing how various gamers actually perform, is far superior to the facts. Or testing.

 

[BD2003]

that is not true by any means if you are playing a console game.

i'd be hard pressed to put my $$ on the ogre brothers beating anybody in the world at halo 2 regardless of the other person using a kb/m or a controller.

and vice versa for the top pc fps gamers, putting a console player on a PC game w/an xbox 360 controller.

and it's all due to how the games are programmed for one and not the other.

What about a cross platform game like say, MW2. Take two random sets of average gamers. All other things are equal but the control method. Would you put your money on the mouse players or gamepad players?

 

[BD2003]

I didn't "conceed" anything. You're missing the point.

 

[purbeast0]

What about a cross platform game like say, MW2. Take two random sets of average gamers. All other things are equal but the control method. Would you put your money on the mouse players or gamepad players?

if they were playing on xbox 360, i would take the gamepad players.

if they were playing on pc, i would take the mouse players.

 

[BD2003]

if they were playing on xbox 360, i would take the gamepad players.

if they were playing on pc, i would take the mouse players.

Imagine the 360 players were on the 360, and the pc gamers are on the pc. It's the same game, just imagine the netcode worked cross platform.

 

[pontifex]

What about a cross platform game like say, MW2. Take two random sets of average gamers. All other things are equal but the control method. Would you put your money on the mouse players or gamepad players?

depends on the players and their familiarity with the chosen controller/system.

I've seen video of people using gamepads that are just as good as i am with a mouse and keyboard.

 

[BD2003]

depends on the players and their familiarity with the chosen controller/system.

I've seen video of people using gamepads that are just as good as i am with a mouse and keyboard.

It's a random sample of average gamers, all with relatively equal skill levels and have logged precisely 1000 hours over their lifetime with their control scheme. You've got $1000 on the line. Which would you choose?

 

[purbeast0]

Imagine the 360 players were on the 360, and the pc gamers are on the pc. It's the same game, just imagine the netcode worked cross platform.

why are you talking about hypothetical situations? it's a moot point.

might as well talk about games on the Theorystation 720!

EDIT:

and they had this for that one game ... forget the name, and you could filter matches based on control schemes.

but PC gaming with a MOUSE is not the same as CONSOLE gaming with a MOUSE ... which is what this whole thread is about...

 

[BD2003]

why are you talking about hypothetical situations? it's a moot point.

might as well talk about games on the Theorystation 720!

EDIT:

and they had this for that one game ... forget the name, and you could filter matches based on control schemes.

but PC gaming with a MOUSE is not the same as CONSOLE gaming with a MOUSE ... which is what this whole thread is about...

Because it cuts right to the heart of the question....that the mouse is a superior method of control. That's why everyone is tap dancing around answering it. Because they know they wouldn't take a bet that the gamepad players would win. And no one wants to say the mouse will win, because it undermines all the bs.

That's why all this nonsense about it being the same, about pro gamers with a gamepad on a console can do amazing things, and so on and so on is ridiculous self justification. Your average gamer can not turn around as quick or aim as precise with a pad as they can with a mouse. The mouse wins. We all know it. Even with a dirty hack like the xim, the mouse will still win. Anyone that is comfortable with both knows this even if they don't want to admit it.

The only thing worse than a cheater is a cheater who can't even admit to himself that he's cheating.

 

[pontifex]

Because it cuts right to the heart of the question....that the mouse is a superior method of control. That's why everyone is tap dancing around answering it. Because they know they wouldn't take a bet that the gamepad players would win. And no one wants to say the mouse will win, because it undermines all the bs.

That's why all this nonsense about it being the same, about pro gamers with a gamepad on a console can do amazing things, and so on and so on is ridiculous self justification. Your average gamer can not turn around as quick or aim as precise with a pad as they can with a mouse. The mouse wins. We all know it. Even with a dirty hack like the xim, the mouse will still win. Anyone that is comfortable with both knows this even if they don't want to admit it.

The only thing worse than a cheater is a cheater who can't even admit to himself that he's cheating.

completely not true. what part of "XIM EMULATES gamepad movement" are you not getting? turning with a mouse is exactly the same as with a gamepad, probably worse because you have to pick up the mouse to continue to spin, whereas you just hold the stick.

Example, in RDR my speed while aiming is exactly the same with the mouse as it is with the gamepad. I tried adjusting sensitivity and it will not make it any faster. I can make it slower, but not faster.

 

[BD2003]

The difference is this: in many games, you can turn the sensitivity up to a ridiculous degree, but this makes small adjustments harder. With the pad you have to make the decision whether you want to turn fast or to be precise. With the mouse and these devices you get the best of both worlds. You're limited to the turn speed of the highest sensitivity...in some games that might not be high enough. But in many it is.

 

[pontifex]

The difference is this: in many games, you can turn the sensitivity up to a ridiculous degree, but this makes small adjustments harder. With the pad you have to make the decision whether you want to turn fast or to be precise. With the mouse and these devices you get the best of both worlds. You're limited to the turn speed of the highest sensitivity...in some games that might not be high enough. But in many it is.

you've obviously never used a XIM device as you keep talking out of your ass so I'm done arguing with you.

 

[BD2003]

You're welcome to stay in denial then.

 

[purbeast0]

Because it cuts right to the heart of the question....that the mouse is a superior method of control. That's why everyone is tap dancing around answering it. Because they know they wouldn't take a bet that the gamepad players would win. And no one wants to say the mouse will win, because it undermines all the bs.

That's why all this nonsense about it being the same, about pro gamers with a gamepad on a console can do amazing things, and so on and so on is ridiculous self justification. Your average gamer can not turn around as quick or aim as precise with a pad as they can with a mouse. The mouse wins. We all know it. Even with a dirty hack like the xim, the mouse will still win. Anyone that is comfortable with both knows this even if they don't want to admit it.

The only thing worse than a cheater is a cheater who can't even admit to himself that he's cheating.

dude no one is denying that the mouse is a superior form of control. a mouse is more precise, that is just a simple fact. that doesn't mean someone can PREFER to play with a controller over a mouse, especially on a console. no way in hell would i ever use a mouse on a console for FPS, ever.

and you are wrong, the average gamer with a pad ON A CONSOLE can turn just as fast as someone with a mouse ON A CONSOLE. you know why? cause the game has a set speed it lets you turn around, and that doesn't change regardless of which form of control you have. sure, you can turn the sensitivity up, but it still isn't the same.

also, did you know that most console games, the speed you look vertically is different than the speed you look horizontally? halo is a prime example of this. you don't have that in ANY PC games at all, so using a mouse w/this 'feature' would be pretty weird for the 'average' pc gamer.

and these console games are DESIGNED to be played with a controller, and yes, i will still stand by the reasoning that I think on a CONSOLE that the best players with a pad could easily hang with the best players with a mouse ... ON A CONSOLE (ie, the 360 controller vs a XIM)

either way, USE WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH AND IT IS NOT CHEATING EITHER WAY.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Sorry, the Xim2 works fine in many shooters on the Xbox 360.

As for an advantage, you OBVIOUSLY don't understand HOW the device works. The above comments shows such, but just to clue you in.

The Xim2 cannot allow users to do movements that game doesn't allow. If the FASTEST a player can turn 360 degrees with a gamepad is 2 seconds then the Xim2 has the same limitations.

End of story.

You cannot do anything with a Xim that you cannot do with a pad.

Anyone who says differently doesn't know (or chooses to spread FUD) how the device works.

The only difference is HOW movements are created. Are you better at using a thumb or your fingers? The CoD MW1/2 games and Halo 3 demonstrate there are many, many very skilled players who actually prefer pads and can best mouse gamers.

never heard the expression "he's all thumbs" then I guess... Its not about gaining the ability of faster than possible speeds, its about getting faster than possible precision.

 

[KMFJD]

Just got mine to work, it's definitly not as smooth as a pc game, however after some tweaking it definitly is an improvement over the thumb pad for a thumbpad n00b , only game i have tried is resistance 2 however.